Best SOTU in living memory

[unixknight]

10 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Yeah that's one of the more bizarre arguments I've heard from the pro-abortion side... that somehow it's a kindness to take the life of a perfectly healthy baby.  "But they'll have a rough life!"  Well... people have had rough lives for eons and still fought tooth and nail to live.  Besides which, in connection with what we discussed earlier, most people who use that argument aren't even thinking of REAL difficulty in life when they say it.

(Yes, I just quoted myself because I have more to say.)

If a difficult life is so awful that we're morally justified in taking the life of a baby, then what difference does it make whether the baby is born or not?  Why not  just euthanize babies who are born already into desperate poverty in the name of our great mercy?

Heck, while we're at it, there are entire villages in some parts of the world where the people are starving to death and living the most difficult lives imaginable.  Let's be merciful!  I think a couple good air strikes ought to demonstrate our moral superiority, eh?  That's what AGMs* are for, amirite?  Just load up a few A-10s with as many Mavericks as they can carry and spread that kind mercy to all corners!  We can start in Appalachia so the U.N. won't get involved, those meanies.

I know @Tyme was mainly talking about a "right not to be poor" argument, not so much abortion, so I don't mean to get us sidetracked.  Just had to get that out.

*Air-to-Ground Missile

Edited February 13, 2019 by unixknight

[mordorbund]

2 hours ago, unixknight said:

I know @Tyme was mainly talking about a "right not to be poor" argument, not so much abortion, so I don't mean to get us sidetracked. 

@Tyme stirred the pot and disappeared. Right now his arguments in favor of abortion is "lolz".

Edited February 13, 2019 by mordorbund

[mordorbund]

18 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

I think part of the problem is that we constantly see things in the extremes rather than being willing to try to meet the other side in the middle and actually address the problems rather than trying to make a stand that our political position is the only true or correct position.

I'm struggling to understand this. Can you describe for me point of view of the two sides and what meeting in the middle looks like?

[unixknight]

9 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

@Tyme stirred the pot and disappeared. Right now his arguments in favor of abortion is "lolz".

Yeah I guess he felt "piled on." (since apparently that's a thing now on here.)

[NightSG]

On 2/6/2019 at 7:13 PM, mirkwood said:

You don't serve 5 years for simple possession.  Quit drinking the kool aid.

From our DA this week: “Hopefully a 99-year sentence for simple possession of methamphetamine will communicate to people who sell and use narcotics that Erath County is not a hospitable locale to do their crimes.”  Possession is the only charge on the table.  

[mirkwood]

31 minutes ago, NightSG said:

From our DA this week: “Hopefully a 99-year sentence for simple possession of methamphetamine will communicate to people who sell and use narcotics that Erath County is not a hospitable locale to do their crimes.”  Possession is the only charge on the table.  

How about you tell the whole story:

"The punishment range for Ellis’ offense was enhanced due to prior criminal history. Ellis faced from 25 to 99 years or life in prison for the offense."

[Just_A_Guy]

6 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

How about you tell the whole story:

"The punishment range for Ellis’ offense was enhanced due to prior criminal history. Ellis faced from 25 to 99 years or life in prison for the offense."

And the fact that he was living in a drug house, and multiple people were coming into the house with no drugs and leaving with drugs.

[NightSG]

53 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

And the fact that he was living in a drug house, and multiple people were coming into the house with no drugs and leaving with drugs.

And yet the charge was still just possession.

1 hour ago, mirkwood said:

How about you tell the whole story:

"The punishment range for Ellis’ offense was enhanced due to prior criminal history. Ellis faced from 25 to 99 years or life in prison for the offense."

Yeah, his history of 2-3 separate incidents of possession under 4 grams, one DV and a few PIs.  Real supervillain there.  So much worse than the attempted murderer who topped out at 20 years.

[Just_A_Guy]

7 minutes ago, NightSG said:

And yet the charge was still just possession.

Of 1.5 grams.  @mirkwood can correct me, but I believe that’s somewhere between thirty and forty hits’ worth.

[NightSG]

5 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Of 1.5 grams.  @mirkwood can correct me, but I believe that’s somewhere between thirty and forty hits’ worth.

And?  It's still just possession.  Whether that's because they were too lazy or incompetent to find actual proof of dealing or just because the guy buys his meth at Costco, they still didn't even try to charge him with dealing.

[Just_A_Guy]

13 minutes ago, NightSG said:

And?  It's still just possession.  Whether that's because they were too lazy or incompetent to find actual proof of dealing or just because the guy buys his meth at Costco, they still didn't even try to charge him with dealing.

First—possession of dozens of doses, with priors.  Some of us think prison is appropriate for that.  You don’t.  That’s a fair policy discussion to have, as long as you’re telling the whole story.  And it’s also probably worth noting that among other offenses your boy has a history including parole violation, failure to appear, and evading arrest.  The system has tried to rehabilitate this guy through less punitive means for eighteen years.  It hasn’t worked, and the jury apparently could—and did—take that into account in deciding to pack him off to prison.

Second:  armchair copping is always amusing; but the fact is that for amounts under a certain threshold—amounts the local drug community knows well—the only surefire way to catch someone is with a controlled buy using a CI.  And despite what you see on TV, CIs don’t exactly grow on trees.  (Or, to put it in language you might be more wont to appreciate—it’s not like there’s one hanging out in every donut shop.)    

 

Edited February 14, 2019 by Just_A_Guy

[unixknight]

Just to weigh in... 

Someone who has simple possession (not enough to distribute, just truly a personal use amount, whatever that is) shouldn't be in jail because it doesn't help.  I once knew a guy who got locked up for possession of meth.  The whole time he was in jail (I think he had a 60 day sentence, IIRC) he couldn't wait to get out so he could use again.  Granted, that's meth for you... Once you're on it's almost impossible to get off, but still... I think having a criminal record only makes an addict even harder to rehabilitate because now they're going to have a harder time finding work, which is more stress, which makes it harder to stay clean... vicious circle, that. 

To reiterate... I'm ONLY talking about people whose only crime is possession. 

On the other hand, dealers, sellers, guys caught with a large enough amount that they were out there looking to sell...  Lose the key.  I'd even be okay with manslaughter charges against one who could be proven to have sold to an addict who died from an overdose. 

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, unixknight said:

Just to weigh in... 

Someone who has simple possession (not enough to distribute, just truly a personal use amount, whatever that is) shouldn't be in jail because it doesn't help.  I once knew a guy who got locked up for possession of meth.  The whole time he was in jail (I think he had a 60 day sentence, IIRC) he couldn't wait to get out so he could use again.  Granted, that's meth for you... Once you're on it's almost impossible to get off, but still... I think having a criminal record only makes an addict even harder to rehabilitate because now they're going to have a harder time finding work, which is more stress, which makes it harder to stay clean... vicious circle, that. 

To reiterate... I'm ONLY talking about people whose only crime is possession. 

On the other hand, dealers, sellers, guys caught with a large enough amount that they were out there looking to sell...  Lose the key.  I'd even be okay with manslaughter charges against one who could be proven to have sold to an addict who died from an overdose. 

Very true, but the nasty truth is that rehab doesn’t usually work either.  IIRC, the “success” rate for five-year sobriety is under 40%.   

[mirkwood]

7 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Very true, but the nasty truth is that rehab doesn’t usually work either.  IIRC, the “success” rate for five-year sobriety is under 40%.   

Recidivism rates are around 90% for drug users.

[mirkwood]

11 hours ago, NightSG said:

And?  It's still just possession.  Whether that's because they were too lazy or incompetent to find actual proof of dealing or just because the guy buys his meth at Costco, they still didn't even try to charge him with dealing.

Nice try.  He wasn't a "simple possessor", he was a repeat offender.  They probably went with the easiest charge to prove and enhanced it.  The enhancement alone made it more then simple possession.  smh

[unixknight]

26 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Recidivism rates are around 90% for drug users.

Not surprised.  Meth especially is next to impossible to kick, as I understand it.  Once you're on it, that's it.  In Baltimore the scourge is Heroin, which is almost as bad.  

I dunno what the solution is.  I really don't.

[mirkwood]

36 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Not surprised.  Meth especially is next to impossible to kick, as I understand it.  Once you're on it, that's it.  In Baltimore the scourge is Heroin, which is almost as bad.  

I dunno what the solution is.  I really don't.

The Second Coming

[anatess2]

47 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Not surprised.  Meth especially is next to impossible to kick, as I understand it.  Once you're on it, that's it.  In Baltimore the scourge is Heroin, which is almost as bad.  

I dunno what the solution is.  I really don't.

Yep.  That's why it's frustrating for us Filipinos to have the UN breathing down our backs from political motivations as we fight this war with the drug trade.  We don't look at it as anything else but that - a war.  We're fighting it with our lives.  We may never know in our lifetimes if the sacrifices we make today was worth it.  We'll let you know in 50 years.

In the meantime, we're cheering on the USA in their trade war with China.  Your drugs come from your southern border.  Our drugs come from China.  With China in the international hot seat fighting for their economy, they are cooperative in our demands to rid us of the Chinese drug factories and the Chinese smuggling businesses.

Build that darned wall.

Edited February 14, 2019 by anatess2

[NightSG]

10 hours ago, unixknight said:

On the other hand, dealers, sellers, guys caught with a large enough amount that they were out there looking to sell... 

What amount is large enough to prove dealing?  I bought 250 doses of ibuprofen yesterday, and I'm not selling, or even sharing it.  I used to only buy cigarettes 200-400 at a time. For that matter, at one point I bought five pounds of loose tobacco to roll, and never sold any of it. 

[anatess2]

2 minutes ago, NightSG said:

What amount is large enough to prove dealing?  I bought 250 doses of ibuprofen yesterday, and I'm not selling, or even sharing it.  I used to only buy cigarettes 200-400 at a time. For that matter, at one point I bought five pounds of loose tobacco to roll, and never sold any of it. 

If you ask me, 1 grain of sand is enough.  If some guy went in your house with no grain of sand's worth of drugs and he walked out with 1 grain of sand's worth... that proves dealing.

[unixknight]

3 minutes ago, NightSG said:

What amount is large enough to prove dealing? 

I don't know man.  I'm neither a cop nor a prosecutor.  Just thinking "out loud."

[NightSG]

1 minute ago, anatess2 said:

If you ask me, 1 grain of sand is enough.  If some guy went in your house with no grain of sand's worth of drugs and he walked out with 1 grain of sand's worth... that proves dealing.

Or that he's a thief. 

[anatess2]

1 minute ago, NightSG said:

Or that he's a thief. 

Kinda hard to pin thievery on an undercover cop or his minion.

Edited February 14, 2019 by anatess2

[mirkwood]

2 hours ago, NightSG said:

What amount is large enough to prove dealing?  I bought 250 doses of ibuprofen yesterday, and I'm not selling, or even sharing it.  I used to only buy cigarettes 200-400 at a time. For that matter, at one point I bought five pounds of loose tobacco to roll, and never sold any of it. 

Really?  At this point all I have left to say to you:  It is impossible to have a rational conversation with someone who insists on being irrational.

[Guest Godless]

21 hours ago, NightSG said:

What amount is large enough to prove dealing?  I bought 250 doses of ibuprofen yesterday, and I'm not selling, or even sharing it.  I used to only buy cigarettes 200-400 at a time. For that matter, at one point I bought five pounds of loose tobacco to roll, and never sold any of it. 

People don't buy drugs the way they buy, beer, cigarettes, or ibuprofen. Buying more than a few doses is both very expensive and very risky.