Junior

My bishop keeps being unfair to me. What options do I have?

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Hi my name is Junior, I did ask a question on this website before but I can't find the question. I will explain briefly why he is being unfair. I told him over 5 months ago that I wanted to repent from pre-marital sex and he was kind of nice about it, then probably a month later he told me I can start taking the sacrament again and he told me I can have an interview at some point soon to get a temple recommend. I thought I was forgiven and repentance process was over. Then I found out my girlfriend was pregnant so I told my bishop but I explained she must have conceived before I started repenting and I think he believed me, but he was kind of annoyed at me that I didn't want to marry her. Basically, he told me to consider marrying her I told him I didn't want to after a little while and he told me that I can't be forgiven until I put things right (Idk what he meant) but he already told me I can take the sacrament again a few weeks before. I asked him when can I have an interview because I want to go to the temple with my mom. He told me I need to stop being so prideful and selfish and to focus on what the Lord wants me to do. I was very insulted by what he said but I let it go out of respect for him. Then I think 6 weeks ago I told my bishop that I moved in with my girlfriend to help her and I got a second job to save up for things for the baby. He told me I was sinning by living with her and I disagreed with him, so he told me to stop taking the sacrament. I didn't agree with him so I just carried on taking the sacrament for a while. Then I felt guilty about it so I moved out and I told him that and asked him can I please have an interview for a temple recommend, he told me no but said take the sacrament again a couple of weeks later. For the last 3 weeks I didn't go to church because I have 2 jobs and I worked 60 hours each week so I was exhausted and I had to work on 2 of the 3 Sundays and I missed some meetings I was meant to have with him. My bishop sent me a message saying it is important that I am regularly attending church at this time or the repentance process will take longer. What he doesn't understand is that I am not repenting anymore, he himself already told me that I was forgiven until I found out my girlfriend is pregnant. I am so confused as to why he is treating me this way. Who can I complain about him to? Why do you think he is treating me so harshly?

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He's treating you harshly because you're being a prideful unrepentant sinner, and are rejecting the counsel and advice of the Lord's representative.   You are flirting with open apostasy and are moving towards more formal church discipline.   All of that leads to more bad and less good, and your Bishop is hoping you'll choose actions that will lead to more good and less bad.

This is the conclusion I reach after reading your story, in your words.  

Who can you complain about him to?  You'll find sympathetic ears in the ranks of church critics and bitter former members.  I'm not suggesting you do that.  I'm suggesting you reverse course and humble yourself.

Big decisions here - here's hoping you keep God and the church in your corner as you make them.

Edited by NeuroTypical

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@Junior, good for you for moving out and working hard on your job.  That's a step in the right direction.

So, I guess you're still on the "I'm not marrying her" decision?  Do you know if she's considering adoption like we suggested to you before?  That baby is an innocent victim of your decisions.  That baby deserves an intact family with a willing, responsible, and capable father who is a loving husband to his wife.

As far as your bishop goes... you're still acting like the bishop is your enemy instead of your spiritual ally.  When you quit being a brat about it and learn to be humble and obedient to the Lord, things will start to change for the better in that regard.  Your first step is to pray earnestly to your Heavenly Father that you may gain a testimony of the authority of your bishop and how you can sustain him.

Edited by anatess2

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23 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

He's treating you harshly because you're being a prideful unrepentant sinner, and are rejecting the counsel and advice of the Lord's representative.   You are flirting with open apostasy and are moving towards more formal church discipline.   All of that leads to more bad and less good, and your Bishop is hoping you'll choose actions that will lead to more good and less bad.

 

How am I unrepentant? I did repent but I just don't see why I should repent for the same sin over and over again. 

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42 minutes ago, Junior said:

Hi my name is Junior

Hi Junior.  I'm going to reply to your post point for point because I think there's a lot worth mentioning.  I'm going to be blunt because I want to be clear.  Please do not take offense.  I'll tell you right now I agree with what @NeuroTypical said, I just want to add my own comments to his.

42 minutes ago, Junior said:

I told him over 5 months ago that I wanted to repent from pre-marital sex and he was kind of nice about it, then probably a month later he told me I can start taking the sacrament again and he told me I can have an interview at some point soon to get a temple recommend. I thought I was forgiven and repentance process was over.

It was, assuming that you had truly stopped sleeping with your girlfriend.  If you did, then all is well up to this point.

42 minutes ago, Junior said:

Then I found out my girlfriend was pregnant so I told my bishop but I explained she must have conceived before I started repenting and I think he believed me, but he was kind of annoyed at me that I didn't want to marry her. 

Of course he was.  You're having a child and don't want to form a family unit with the child's mother.  Had you broken up with her by this point?

42 minutes ago, Junior said:

Basically, he told me to consider marrying her I told him I didn't want to after a little while and he told me that I can't be forgiven until I put things right (Idk what he meant) but he already told me I can take the sacrament again a few weeks before.

Well, this isn't enough information to be sure, but my guess is that at this point it looked like you were abandoning this child.  That's not okay, and you won't get a Temple Recommend in such a case.

42 minutes ago, Junior said:

I asked him when can I have an interview because I want to go to the temple with my mom. He told me I need to stop being so prideful and selfish and to focus on what the Lord wants me to do. I was very insulted by what he said but I let it go out of respect for him. 

He probably said that because it sure looks like you were being prideful and selfish.  The very fact that you're telling us how insulted you were confirms it.  Brother, look at it this way:  You walked into the Bishop's office, you told him you were gong to be having a child out of wedlock and had no intention of changing that.  Then you wanted a Temple recommend on the grounds that you wanted to go with your mom.  So far, nothing in this story shows you were willing to be humble and repentant, and obey instructions by your Priesthood leader. 

You say you let it go out of respect for him, as if it was you doing him a favor.  Brother, you've got this backwards.  

42 minutes ago, Junior said:

Then I think 6 weeks ago I told my bishop that I moved in with my girlfriend to help her and I got a second job to save up for things for the baby. He told me I was sinning by living with her and I disagreed with him, so he told me to stop taking the sacrament. 

Ok so you confess that you're living with this woman, outside of marriage, and you disagree that this is sinful?  Dude, seriously.  This is a very prideful statement.  Of course he told you to stop taking the Sacrament.  You were living in a sinful situation and showing no signs of remorse or repentance.

42 minutes ago, Junior said:

I didn't agree with him so I just carried on taking the sacrament for a while. Then I felt guilty about it so I moved out and I told him that and asked him can I please have an interview for a temple recommend, he told me no but said take the sacrament again a couple of weeks later.

You didn't agree with him so you ignored his instructions and did whatever you wanted.  Good that you moved out, but your demand for a recommend interview so quickly leads me to believe you don't understand the seriousness of this situation.

42 minutes ago, Junior said:

For the last 3 weeks I didn't go to church because I have 2 jobs and I worked 60 hours each week so I was exhausted and I had to work on 2 of the 3 Sundays and I missed some meetings I was meant to have with him. My bishop sent me a message saying it is important that I am regularly attending church at this time or the repentance process will take longer.

And he is correct.

42 minutes ago, Junior said:

What he doesn't understand is that I am not repenting anymore, he himself already told me that I was forgiven until I found out my girlfriend is pregnant.

No, brother.  It is you who do not understand.  You repented of the fornication and completed the repentance process.  You then went on to:

  • Refuse to marry the woman once you discovered she was pregnant.  (Are you taking responsibility for any of her medical expenses?  Will you pay child support if you don't marry her?  
  • Move in with her in a sinful living arrangement.  Did you sleep with her?
  • Ignore the Bishop's instructions and took the Sacrament even after being told not to.

And you think you're not in another repentance process?  You think you're worthy to enter the Temple?  Honestly?  

42 minutes ago, Junior said:

Who can I complain about him to? 

Complain to the Stake President.  Maybe you'll listen to his counsel.

42 minutes ago, Junior said:

Why do you think he is treating me so harshly?

He's not being harsh, though I bet he's exasperated with you.  He's trying to get through that prideful attitude you seem to have.  

I really think you need to spend some time thinking about how you've been approaching this.  Pray, fast, and really think about it.  If you were in my ward I'm positive my Bishop would have been the exact same way, and he's one of the finest people to ever walk the Earth.

Edited by unixknight

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9 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

@Junior, good for you for moving out and working hard on your job.  That's a step in the right direction.

 So, I guess you're still on the "I'm not marrying her" decision?  Do you know if she's considering adoption like we suggested to you before?  That baby is an innocent victim of your decisions.  That baby deserves an intact family with a willing, responsible, and capable father who is a loving husband to his wife.

 As far as your bishop goes... you're still acting like the bishop is your enemy instead of your spiritual ally.  When you quit being a brat about it and learn to be humble and obedient to the Lord, things will start to change for the better in that regard.  Your first step is to pray earnestly to your Heavenly Father that you may gain a testimony of the authority of your bishop and how you can sustain him.

Yeah I am not going to marry her because she has become really irritating. I will probably break up with her once the baby is born and we have a good schedule for when I can see the baby. She is going to keep the baby living with her and I am going to visit the baby as much as I can. 

 

I did actually respect him so much but he pushed me too far now and I dont think he is being fair to me at all. I know that God has forgiven me.

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Just now, Junior said:

How am I unrepentant? I did repent but I just don't see why I should repent for the same sin over and over again. 

You need to keep on the course of righteousness with steadfastness and humility.  Such intrinsically takes time and keeping at it-- just like recovering from any other wound.  Your spiritually shattered leg is now in a cast, but you need to let thing have time to heal- which doesn't mean running any marathons right now.  Getting mad at the doctor (aka bishop) for telling you this is not helping your case or showing the humility a disciple of Christ should have. 

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46 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Of course he was.  You're having a child and don't want to form a family unit with the child's mother.  Had you broken up with her by this point?

1 hour ago, Junior said:

No I hadn't broken up with her and I still haven't. 

46 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Ok so you confess that you're living with this woman, outside of marriage, and you disagree that this is sinful?  Dude, seriously.  This is a very prideful statement.  Of course he told you to stop taking the Sacrament.  You were living in a sinful situation and showing no signs of remorse or repentance.

1 hour ago, Junior said:

I still do disagree that it is sinful because I only moved in with her to help her as she was struggling with sickness and told me she was lonely. Obviously, I wasn't going to sleep with her because I had already repented from that sin and I never want to do it again. Also, it's gross to sleep with a woman who is pregnant so obviously I wasn't going to sin. I was just trying to support her. 

 

48 minutes ago, unixknight said:
  • Refuse to marry the woman once you discovered she was pregnant.  (Are you taking responsibility for any of her medical expenses?  Will you pay child support if you don't marry her?  
  •  Move in with her in a sinful living arrangement.  Did you sleep with her?
  • Ignore the Bishop's instructions and took the Sacrament even after being told not to.

I did seriously consider marrying her but it isn't the right thing to do because I would be miserable and she hates me being a member of the church. I am paying half of her medical expenses and I bought her a car and I spent over $1000 on things for the baby. I will have to pay her child support, unless the baby comes to live with me. 

No I didn't sleep with her. 

Well I did feel bad about that in a way.

51 minutes ago, unixknight said:

He's not being harsh, though I bet he's exasperated with you.  He's trying to get through that prideful attitude you seem to have.  

 

Honestly, I am not a proud person.

 

52 minutes ago, unixknight said:

You didn't agree with him so you ignored his instructions and did whatever you wanted.  Good that you moved out, but your demand for a recommend interview so quickly leads me to believe you don't understand the seriousness of this situation.

1 hour ago, Junior said:

I want to go to the temple with my mom because we used to go together a lot and I miss going with her. I dont see why it is bad that I want to go to the temple. 

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4 minutes ago, Junior said:

I want to go to the temple with my mom because we used to go together a lot and I miss going with her. I dont see why it is bad that I want to go to the temple. 

Wanting to go to the temple is a GREAT thing.  But there still needs to be a lot of time and change in order to get there.  

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This post doesn't ring true. Anyone else get the feeling that the hook with its worm are being pulled along enticingly in front of us?

1 hour ago, Junior said:

I asked him when can I have an interview because I want to go to the temple with my mom. He told me I need to stop being so prideful and selfish and to focus on what the Lord wants me to do.

There you go. Truthful words often hurt when we don't want to change. That's part of the challenge of humility.

1 hour ago, Junior said:

He told me I was sinning by living with her and I disagreed with him, so he told me to stop taking the sacrament. I didn't agree with him so I just carried on taking the sacrament for a while.

Do you see a problem with this—engaging in a sacred ordinance that you have been explicitly told NOT to engage in by him who holds the keys of determining such things?

1 hour ago, Junior said:

Then I felt guilty about it so I moved out and I told him that and asked him can I please have an interview for a temple recommend, he told me no but said take the sacrament again a couple of weeks later.

Temple recommend interview? Are you serious, Junior? You need desperately to get your life in order and get back on the tracks before you even consider scheduling a temple recommend interview. Wait at least until your broken leg is set before you sign up for the 10K.

1 hour ago, Junior said:

For the last 3 weeks I didn't go to church because I have 2 jobs and I worked 60 hours each week so I was exhausted and I had to work on 2 of the 3 Sundays and I missed some meetings I was meant to have with him. My bishop sent me a message saying it is important that I am regularly attending church at this time or the repentance process will take longer. What he doesn't understand is that I am not repenting anymore, he himself already told me that I was forgiven until I found out my girlfriend is pregnant.

What do you think repentance is, Junior? Do you think it's a checklist of things you run through and then you're forgiven?

You IMPREGNATED your girlfriend. This is a major thing. It changes your life and everything about it. You have created life with a woman who is not your wife. This is not a minor indiscretion; it's a huge deal. Your legalistic picking at whether you've been "forgiven" or not is so wrong-headed that I am having difficulty finding words to express how wrong you are.

Quit worrying about going to the temple soon. Quit worrying about how "unfair" you think the bishop is being. Humble yourself! Do whatever the bishop instructs! Quit "defending" yourself! Open your heart, drop the bad attitude, and get your life straightened out. For some reason, this is extremely hard for you to see, but it's crystal clear to all of us on the outside.

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5 minutes ago, Junior said:

I still do disagree that it is sinful because I only moved in with her to help her as she was struggling with sickness and told me she was lonely. Obviously, I wasn't going to sleep with her because I had already repented from that sin and I never want to do it again.

If a person stops drinking alcohol, is it wise to hang out in a bar?

So you're telling us that you lived with a woman you were still romantically involved with, and find it confusing why that's sinful?

5 minutes ago, Junior said:

Also, it's gross to sleep with a woman who is pregnant so obviously I wasn't going to sin.

Speak for yourself...  Some guys think there's nothing more attractive to them than a woman who is carrying his baby.

5 minutes ago, Junior said:

I did seriously consider marrying her but it isn't the right thing to do because I would be miserable and she hates me being a member of the church.

Then why are you even still romantically involved?

5 minutes ago, Junior said:

I am paying half of her medical expenses and I bought her a car and I spent over $1000 on things for the baby. I will have to pay her child support, unless the baby comes to live with me. 

Good.

5 minutes ago, Junior said:

Honestly, I am not a proud person.

Nothing you've written so far leads me to believe that this is true, brother.

5 minutes ago, Junior said:

I want to go to the temple with my mom because we used to go together a lot and I miss going with her. I dont see why it is bad that I want to go to the temple. 

Because you're not worthy to go, according to the Priesthood authority you're refusing to listen to.

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8 minutes ago, Junior said:

I want to go to the temple with my mom because we used to go together a lot and I miss going with her. I dont see why it is bad that I want to go to the temple. 

It's not bad to want to go to the Temple.

Usually, by the time you're around 8 years old, you realize you can't always have what you want just because you want it.  You have to work hard to QUALIFY for it or even deserve it.

Go repent some more.  

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One more thought, Junior: If you find yourself in this predicament despite having "enjoyed" attending the temple with your mother in the past, we have a major disconnect going on. Methinks you have never actually listened to the covenants you make in the temple, or else you just don't care about them.

Repent. Humble yourself. Bring yourself down into the dust. Beg your bishop for help, then do whatever he says. Stop with the pridefulness. That's my best possible advice to you.

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2 minutes ago, Vort said:

One more thought, Junior: If you find yourself in this predicament despite having "enjoyed" attending the temple with your mother in the past, we have a major disconnect going on. Methinks you have never actually listened to the covenants you make in the temple, or else you just don't care about them.

Repent. Humble yourself. Bring yourself down into the dust. Beg your bishop for help, then do whatever he says. Stop with the pridefulness. That's my best possible advice to you.

This.

So, @Junior, you asked what your options are.  Here they are:

  • Continue trying to convince us (and whoever else will listen) that your Bishop is just a big ol' mean poopyhead who just doesn't like you.
  • Humble yourself, as we are all instructed to do by the Lord, and demonstrate that you understand what it means to go to the Temple in the first place.

Which option do you think will get you into the Temple faster?

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1 hour ago, Junior said:

Yeah I am not going to marry her because she has become really irritating. I will probably break up with her once the baby is born and we have a good schedule for when I can see the baby. She is going to keep the baby living with her and I am going to visit the baby as much as I can. 

 

I did actually respect him so much but he pushed me too far now and I dont think he is being fair to me at all. I know that God has forgiven me.

Quote

Also, it's gross to sleep with a woman who is pregnant so obviously I wasn't going to sin. I was just trying to support her. 

Nice troll.   I don't believe that this is real.

If it is true though, your bishop is 100% correct.   

I don't think anyone could really b this childish (I smell a troll), but if this really is real, learn your butt some responsibility and quit being such a child.  

 

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38 minutes ago, Junior said:

Also, it's gross to sleep with a woman who is pregnant so obviously I wasn't going to sin.

🤣

HPsL.gif

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1 hour ago, Junior said:

How am I unrepentant? I did repent but I just don't see why I should repent for the same sin over and over again. 

My friend, true repentance means turning away from sin. It is inappropriate to live with someone of the opposite sex that you aren't married to, and the fact that you moved in with her, despite the fact that you had good intentions, is not the proper course of action. Perhaps no continuing sexual relationship exists between the two of you, but the Bishop cannot know that for certain. It is a great thing that you came to him, and have a desire to go to the temple...but the covenants we make inside are not something to be taken lightly. The Bishop holds Priesthood keys, and if you were to go to the temple unworthily he would be at fault as well. He does care about you, but also has an entire ward to look after. The load he carries is heavy. He is looking out for you, and it sounds like you aren't ready to go just yet. Fornication is a big deal, but once a child is born out of wedlock to unmarried parents there are even more obligations you would have to meet as a father before being found worthy. You have made several mistakes and bad choices, and that is not the Bishop's fault. Being able to take the sacrament again doesn't mean you are done repenting and forgiven...true repentance is not just a change in behavior for a set period of time, but a true change of character. It lasts a lifetime. Best of luck to you moving forward, and don't give up. The effort it takes is worth it. 

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20 minutes ago, Scott said:

Nice troll.   I don't believe that this is real.

If it is true though, your bishop is 100% correct.   

I don't think anyone could really b this childish (I smell a troll), but if this really is real, learn your butt some responsibility and quit being such a child.  

 

I don't think Junior is a troll.  This is not his first post on the subject.  This story has been unfolding for a while now.  And yes, he is very young.  Just barely graduated out of his teen years.

Edited by anatess2

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

What do you think repentance is, Junior? Do you think it's a checklist of things you run through and then you're forgiven?

 

No I don't I think it is a change of heart and a change of behavior. I have repented I have changed completely as a person. All I do now is go to work, help my mom, check my girlfriend is okay, read scripture and try to go to church. I never used to be this way the last 2 years before I repented I was a completely different person I would drink, smoke, have fights, race cars I am have changed but my bishop wont accept that I have changed. 

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

I don't think Junior is a troll.  This is not his first post on the subject.  This story has been unfolding for a while now.  And yes, he is very young.  Just barely graduated out of his teen years.

Hey I am still a teenager stop ageing me. 

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2 hours ago, unixknight said:

So you're telling us that you lived with a woman you were still romantically involved with, and find it confusing why that's sinful?

2 hours ago, Junior said:

Yes because I wasn't sinning. I thought it was the right thing to help the mother of my child. 

 

2 hours ago, unixknight said:

Then why are you even still romantically involved?

2 hours ago, Junior said:

because I do care about her and I know it will upset her if I leave her. So I am staying with her at least until the baby is born. 

 

 

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