Junior

My bishop keeps being unfair to me. What options do I have?

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8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I don't think Junior is a troll. 

I still hope that he is and just leading us on, because if not this is an incredibly sad story for the kid.   

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And yes, he is very young.  Just barely graduated out of his teen years.

He's not too young to learn responsibility.  

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7 hours ago, Junior said:

because I do care about her and I know it will upset her if I leave her. So I am staying with her at least until the baby is born. 

So your plan is to leave her when she needs you the most?   

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7 hours ago, Junior said:

I do think I have been very patient with my bishop. I honestly think he believes that unless I marry with my girlfriend I will never be temple worthy. It is like he doesn't accept my decision on not marrying her and now he picks on minor things to make me feel bad. 

Maybe that's how you are hearing it, but more than likely your bishop just wants you to own up and take responsibility for your actions.

   
Marriage may or may not (and judging from what I am hearing, I would recommend not getting married) be an answer, but taking responsibility is.   

In no way are you taking responsibility for your actions (which is part of repentance).

Pay half the medical bills for the birth?   You really think this is what taking responsibility is?  

What is your job and how do you plan to support the child (whether you are married or not)?    And by support, yes, I am talking about financially, but also emotionally, physically, and spiritually as well.   What are your plans to take responsibility for your actions?  

Edited by Scott

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7 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

The last time we had this discussion you admitted your motives:  she’s a member of another faith, and you have made a Johnny-come-lately decision that you are entitled to nothing less than a temple marriage.  And if she won’t give it to you, why, you’ll just go get it from someone else.

I do want a temple marriage, which is a good thing to want. 

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7 hours ago, pwrfrk said:

 Me: It is not obvious, Junior.  First, where I’m from, under those conditions, you would be investigated for a minimum of Second Degree Rape because you recognize that she’s ill and having mental health issues.  Then you say it’s gross to sleep with a pregnant woman.  Well, unless someone else has been having sex with her, that’s clearly a problem of your own making.  But to tell how you refuse to marry her, yet you’re still going to support her?  No, it doesn’t happen that easily.  You two had sex.  You two became parents when she became pregnant by your own words and works.  Now you are obligated to marry her.  “It take two to make ‘em & it takes two to raise ‘em” is my philosophy.  You can disagree all you want, but either through marriage or the State, you will support your child.

 

No I never slept with her when I moved in with her. 

 

7 hours ago, pwrfrk said:

 you weren’t smart enough to use protection, and now you are going to leave her with the damage to repair while you go out partying and bragging about getting laid.  And don’t tell me you won’t, either.

 

She could have used protection too, it isn't my fault she got pregnant. I slept with her but she is the one who got pregnant. I am not going to go out partying!

7 hours ago, pwrfrk said:

Me: You care enough to get laid but not enough to marry her...how old are you again?

 

Yeah it is different but I was a different person then. Now I wouldn't do that. I am 19.

 

7 hours ago, pwrfrk said:

So you complain about your Bishop being unfair.  No, he is very fair, if not too nice.  You are the one guilty of being unfair and unreasonable.  There is a young woman you owe a big apology to, and I suggest you pay up a lot of money, because I don't think you have what it takes to be a good father or husband.

I will apologise to her but she should apologise to me too. She was wrecked my life and she has never apologised to me. 

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5 hours ago, Scott said:

In no way are you taking responsibility for your actions (which is part of repentance).

That isn't true I have 2 jobs and I bought my girlfriend a car and I spent lots of money on things for the baby. 

 

5 hours ago, Scott said:

 What is your job and how do you plan to support the child (whether you are married or not)?    And by support, yes, I am talking about financially, but also emotionally, physically, and spiritually as well.   What are your plans to take responsibility for your actions?  

In the evening I work in a gas station and during the day I work as a janitor at a Tennis club and I am an Apprentice tennis coach. I just do the janitor job there because I don't get a lot of money as an apprentice until I qualify as a coach. I string rackets sometimes too. 

I will always be there for the child if they want to when they are older they can live with me. If my girlfriend lets me then I will take the baby to church with me. I know I am not going to only see the baby on weekends I will see them at least 3 days a week. 

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43 minutes ago, Junior said:

She could have used protection too, it isn't my fault she got pregnant. I slept with her but she is the one who got pregnant. I am not going to go out partying!

I will apologise to her but she should apologise to me too. She was wrecked my life and she has never apologised to me. 

Junior, if you are 19 then I really feel sorry for you.  It doesn't matter who had what opportunity to play it safe.  YOU had the chance, and YOU dropped the ball. 

As for apologies, no I don't think she owes you any apology.  All you are doing is trying to minimize your roll in this matter.  You are far from mature.

 

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3 hours ago, pwrfrk said:

As for apologies, no I don't think she owes you any apology.  All you are doing is trying to minimize your roll in this matter.  You are far from mature.

 

If she doesn't owe me an apology then I don't see why I owe her one. 

 

3 hours ago, pwrfrk said:

Junior, if you are 19 then I really feel sorry for you.  It doesn't matter who had what opportunity to play it safe.  YOU had the chance, and YOU dropped the ball. 

 

I am 19 but I will be 20 a month after the baby is born. So I am not really young. I wasn't saying I am blameless because obviously I am not.

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4 hours ago, Junior said:

No I never slept with her when I moved in with her. 

This is immaterial to the situation at hand.

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She could have used protection too, it isn't my fault she got pregnant. I slept with her but she is the one who got pregnant. I am not going to go out partying!

To borrow a Utah colloquialism, What the Frick!  Sorry, there are exactly two people that carry responsibility for this pregnancy.  You never, ever, ever get to shift that blame to the other person unless you were raped or manipulated into having sex.  By your own admissions, you were the one who used her for pleasure, knowing that you didn't share the same commitment to her that she did to you.  

You're stuck with the lion share of the blame on this one.

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Yeah it is different but I was a different person then. Now I wouldn't do that. I am 19.

This was not even six months ago.  I hate to break it to you, but people don't change that quickly.

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I will apologise to her but she should apologise to me too. She was wrecked my life and she has never apologised to me. 

"Oh poor me.  A girl who had stronger feelings for me than I did for her agreed to sleep with me because she wanted to give me what I wanted." 

She has not wrecked your life.  You've done that all by yourself.

16 minutes ago, Junior said:

If she doesn't owe me an apology then I don't see why I owe her one. 

 

I am 19 but I will be 20 a month after the baby is born. So I am not really young. I wasn't saying I am blameless because obviously I am not.

Um, yes, you really are young.  Worse, you're immature. 

I say this with a straight face knowing that I'm probably going to get in trouble for it.  But it honestly needs to be said.

Do this poor girl and the child a favor. Walk away.  Pay the child support and never see either of them ever again.  They don't need an immature jerk hanging around. They're better off without you.

Edited by MarginOfError

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12 hours ago, mdfxdb said:

1. You need to break up with her right now or marry her.  Choose one, but do it now.  Don't be a monster.

 

Why does it matter when I break up with her? Also, you never know I may change my mind and want to marry her. I want to be a family with the baby but I don't see it working right now. 

 

12 hours ago, mdfxdb said:

 2. You are paying 1/2 of her medical bills?  Wow bro.  you need to do better than that.  like it or not she is the mother of your child.  

 

I gave her lots of money too and bought her a car also I spent over $1000 on things for the baby and next month I have to spend even more money for things for the baby. Also, I am always going to visit her to make sure she is okay even though it isn't convenient for me. 

 

12 hours ago, mdfxdb said:

 3. Bishop doesn't decide if you are forgiven.  He is the facilitator through which you are guided to forgiveness.  He needs you to do the things he has asked and meet with him when scheduled.  Not keeping your commitments is an indicator that you are not repentant.

 

I know I have been forgiven but the bishop wont accept that it is possible for me to be forgiven if I don't marry my girlfriend which is unfair. 

 

12 hours ago, mdfxdb said:

 4. If you keep on this path you en-route to disfellowship or excommunication.

 

Why would that happen to me?

 

12 hours ago, mdfxdb said:

 5. Do not go live with your girlfriend/ex/baby momma after the kid is born unless you are husband and wife.  Don't be ridiculous.  

 

If she wants me to support her by being there at night to help with the baby then I will. I work nights anyway so it will be rare that I can stay over with her and the baby anyway. 

Edited by Junior

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17 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

This was not even six months ago.  I hate to break it to you, but people don't change that quickly.

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Well all I can say that is with the help of Christ I have completely changed. My old life feels like a long time ago. 

 

18 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

Um, yes, you really are young.  Worse, you're immature. 

 

Compared to my friends my age I am not immature I have 2 jobs and I am planning for the future by getting a career as a tennis coach so it is a more stable job and I can support the baby and my girlfriend forever. 

 

20 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

Do this poor girl and the child a favor. Walk away.  Pay the child support and never see either of them ever again.  They don't need an immature jerk hanging around. They're better off without you.

I will never do that. 

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5 hours ago, Junior said:

 

I will apologise to her but she should apologise to me too. She was wrecked my life and she has never apologised to me. 

Junior, I’m not a mental health professional, but I work with a lot of them.

What you have written above is not by any means a normal thing to write.  It goes far beyond typical teenaged-male immaturity.  It is an attitude I typically see professionally in parents who have been diagnosed with  some sort of psychopathology.  I am not equipped to address anything like that, and it’s rather unsporting for us to keep showing rhetorically just how wrong you are given the traits or disorders you are most likely grappling with.

I strongly encourage you to get a neuropsychological evaluation, and I wish you success in your future endeavors. 

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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29 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Junior, I’m not a mental health professional, but I work with a lot of them.

What you have written above is not by any means a normal thing to write.  It goes far beyond typical teenaged-male immaturity.  It is an attitude I typically see professionally in parents who have been diagnosed with  some sort of psychopathology.  I am not equipped to address anything like that, and it’s rather unsporting for us to keep showing rhetorically just how wrong you are given the traits or disorders you are most likely grappling with.

I strongly encourage you to get a neuropsychological evaluation, and I wish you success in your future endeavors. 

I don't have mental health problems. I just meant that she is just as much to blame as me but I wont ever make her apologise to me because what is done is done. I don't have mental health problems at all. 

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9 minutes ago, Junior said:

I don't have mental health problems. I just meant that she is just as much to blame as me but I wont ever make her apologise to me because what is done is done. I don't have mental health problems at all. 

Never heard THAT one before . . . 

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You know guys, I've been thinking.

Think of how every story has two sides, and that the person telling you the story tends to sugarcoat the story to make themselves look better (sometimes consciously, sometimes without realizing it.)  Now consider how bad this person appears to be messing up, and we're hearing all of it from his side!  Just imagine how much worse the reality probably is.

This thread has made me feel very grateful that we have Bishops, and that the one we're talking about here is out there doing his job diligently.  @Junior your bishop is doing a fantastic job.  If you're wise enough to start listening to him and following his directions, you will do very well.  Put aside your complaints and defensiveness and open up your mind and heart.

5 hours ago, Junior said:

She could have used protection too, it isn't my fault she got pregnant. I slept with her but she is the one who got pregnant. I am not going to go out partying!

I nominate this line as the goofiest thing said in this entire thread.  This line alone would be enough to make me start suspecting this is just a trolling.  These posts hit all the right nerves, don't they?  If this is trolling, it's quite well done.

Junior is either a troll (am I the only one who noticed this person put "female" in the 'gender' field on their profile?) or someone who's so stubborn that his mind isn't going to be changed by a bunch of us on this forum trying to point out his errors.  He either gets it or he doesn't, and I suspect the only one who can get through to him will be the Spirit.  It's out of our hands.

Let's just let his Bishop do his job, which so far he seems to be doing admirably.  (Assuming this tale is even true.)

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15 hours ago, Junior said:

I know and I don't want to hurt her because i care for her so much. I am thinking of moving back in with her once the baby is born to help her out especially at night to make sure she gets enough rest. I wouldn't fully move in but would just have a few things there so I can easily stay over to help her out with night times. 

Junior, please please please... consider the hurt you are going to put on that child.  Please please please, if you don't want to marry her, consider adoption.  You need to start looking for agencies NOW.  Your bishop can help.

Edited by anatess2

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Hi @Junior there is a lot going on here. I do find it strange that your Bishop won't allow you to have an interview, I mean what would the harm be in him letting you have the interview. 

Of course you can talk to the stake president but I think he is likely to tell you the same thing as your bishop. Do you have any LDS role models who you can talk this through with? It may be beneficial for you to hear the same thing your Bishop is telling you and they may phrase it slightly differently in a way that it will click with you.

I would also suggest you have a sit down with your Bishop and explain to him where you think you are at with the Lord and all the positive things you have been doing. I am sure he will give you the praise you want to (and in my opinion deserve) hear. I have got the impression that your Bishop may have been using too much stick and not enough carrot. You can tell him you feel that way. Respectfully, ask him if he believes you can be forgiven without marrying your girlfriend, if he says yes then great you are on the same page, if he says no (which I doubt he will) then it is a tough position for you and I agree the Bishop's personal feelings may be impacting his dealings with you.

Take comfort and assurance that he is treating you fairly by allowing you to take the sacrament and wanting to have regular meetings with you. I am sure he wants you to be able to go to the temple as soon as possible as much as you want to go. 

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28 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Junior, please please please... consider the hurt you are going to put on that child.  Please please please, if you don't want to marry her, consider adoption.  You need to start looking for agencies NOW.  Your bishop can help.

What hurt will the baby have? I will love the baby and so will my girlfriend. 

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6 hours ago, Junior said:

She could have used protection too, it isn't my fault she got pregnant. I slept with her but she is the one who got pregnant. I am not going to go out partying!

I really, really hope that you are just trolling because (I'll be blunt here) you do not deserve to have a child.

In no way what so ever are you taking responsibility for your actions.  Your bishop is being easy on you.  Perhaps he is being too easy in my opinion (though it's not my calling, so I'd go with his judgement), so me must be a man of compassion and wisdom.   

 

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I don't have mental health problems.

If you don't that would make it worse because you have no excuse.   

 

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She was wrecked my life and she has never apologised to me. 

YOUR life?  What about the life of the child which YOU potentially wrecked?   And don't blame your girlfriend either.   If you want to repent, it's YOU that have to take the responsibility.   

Don't blame your upbringing either.  I grew up in very difficult circumstances, but by age 19 I had been in the military two years (joining on my 17th birthday), had a stable marriage, owned a house, and was going to college.   Unless you have serious mental problems (and you claim that you don't), there is no reason why a 19 year old can't learn responsibility.  

Stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about doing what is best for your girlfriend and child.  If you don't do this, then you aren't repenting.   Repenting requires taking responsibility for YOUR actions.   You must be focused only on what mistakes you made, not what mistakes your girlfriend or anyone else has made.   If you don't do this, then you aren't repenting.  

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17 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Yep.  His parents failed him.

I don't think it is fair to say that my parents failed me because my older brother isn't like me and neither are my younger siblings. It was my own choice to do the things I did and to stop going to church. I did stop going to church because I blamed God about my parents divorce and my dad moving back to Tonga but now I realise that was stupid. So it is just my fault not my parents. 

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22 minutes ago, Alia said:

Of course you can talk to the stake president but I think he is likely to tell you the same thing as your bishop. Do you have any LDS role models who you can talk this through with? It may be beneficial for you to hear the same thing your Bishop is telling you and they may phrase it slightly differently in a way that it will click with you.

 

No I don't except my mom but I spoke to her a lot and she always just says she doesn't know and I should speak to the Bishop, which is really unhelpful. I have an older brother but he is a missionary so we don't talk much and then I just have family in Tonga but my mom wouldn't want me to talk about it with them because she is ashamed that my girlfriend is going to have a baby. 

 

25 minutes ago, Alia said:

 I would also suggest you have a sit down with your Bishop and explain to him where you think you are at with the Lord and all the positive things you have been doing. I am sure he will give you the praise you want to (and in my opinion deserve) hear. I have got the impression that your Bishop may have been using too much stick and not enough carrot. You can tell him you feel that way. Respectfully, ask him if he believes you can be forgiven without marrying your girlfriend, if he says yes then great you are on the same page, if he says no (which I doubt he will) then it is a tough position for you and I agree the Bishop's personal feelings may be impacting his dealings with you.

 

Yeah he has been harsh with me in that way too. He hasn't told me well done ever and I have changed so much from when I first spoke to him. I just want him to give me some indication I am doing better instead of always telling me what I did wrong :(. I just want some love from him because I cared about his opinion so much but he keeps making me feel like I am failing. 

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1 minute ago, Junior said:

I just want some love from him because I cared about his opinion so much but he keeps making me feel like I am failing. 

😟 Stay strong @Junior. Things might seem bleak now but I'm sure your bishop loves you like he does all his flock. 

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43 minutes ago, unixknight said:

 Junior is either a troll (am I the only one who noticed this person put "female" in the 'gender' field on their profile?) 

 

I don't know why it says that because I am a male maybe I didn't change it to male. 

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Repentance is a fundamental change of heart.  It is not a check-list of things you say and do..

For those that have the task of judging and helping with repentance (like a bishop) can't see a person's heart.  Therefore they have gauge the change of heart by the change in actions.

Someone who has had a fundamental change of heart (aka repentance) about breaking of a temple covenant (aka the Law of Chasity) is going to behave fundamentally differently then they did before they had the change of heart.

Someone truly repentant of breaking the Law of Chasity will either work toward marriage or work toward being clearly separated (even if they have commitments that keep them in each others lives, like kids).  Someone who moves in with and continues to call the other their Boy/Girl Friend is not bringing forth the fruits of repentance.  Those who have the task of judging repentance are totally correct find the person to be unrepentant.  If said person is also ignoring counsel and defying instructions, well then it is very clear.  Said person is failing and needs to repent. Thinking that it is all done and should be behind them is in serious error and said error needs correcting.

 

 

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