Vort Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 3 hours ago, MarginOfError said: Do this poor girl and the child a favor. Walk away. Pay the child support and never see either of them ever again. They don't need an immature jerk hanging around. They're better off without you. I agree with all you wrote but this. Junior needs to stick around. Sure he's immature (so are we all). Sure he has made stupid decisions and has hurt those who depend on him (so do we all). What Junior needs to do is to learn to quit thinking about himself first and put others first instead, in this case his baby and his baby-mama. That's a process, one that he won't get right at first, but can grow into. Consider: If Junior doesn't sound like a prize for a husband/father/breadwinner, his girlfriend is likely to be cut from the same cloth. In this sense, they, like Adam and Eve, are fitted for each other. They can do what every other human being born in this world has to do: Start where they are and learn to move forward. Midwest LDS, askandanswer, NeuroTypical and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 58 minutes ago, estradling75 said: Someone who has had a fundamental change of heart (aka repentance) about breaking of a temple covenant (aka the Law of Chasity) is going to behave fundamentally differently then they did before they had the change of heart. If Junior is on the level, he's nineteen years old. He almost certainly has not been through the temple yet. When he speaks of getting a temple recommend and going to the temple with his mother, he must be talking about doing baptisms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Junior said: What hurt will the baby have? I will love the baby and so will my girlfriend. A baby needs a stable home with a Father and a Mother who love each other so that the baby can learn to love. The baby needs safety and surety, not just physically but also mentally and emotionally. This safety and surety can only be found in a household of committed adults who shows stability and commitment (marriage) and love and kindness and all those things Christ taught us, even when the going gets rough. Your baby is not a Barbie Doll. Edited February 8, 2019 by anatess2 Jane_Doe and SilentOne 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Boy Posted February 8, 2019 Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 I read all of this and all I can see is "Spoiled Brat." I want this. I deserve that. My GF annoys me... I want to spend time with my mom.... There is definitely no humility here. It is all about you. I can imagine the Bishop is frustrated as can be. I mean it seems like you want to help to some extent, but only if it is your way. The way that suits you best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2019 8 hours ago, estradling75 said: Repentance is a fundamental change of heart. It is not a check-list of things you say and do.. For those that have the task of judging and helping with repentance (like a bishop) can't see a person's heart. Therefore they have gauge the change of heart by the change in actions. Someone who has had a fundamental change of heart (aka repentance) about breaking of a temple covenant (aka the Law of Chasity) is going to behave fundamentally differently then they did before they had the change of heart. Someone truly repentant of breaking the Law of Chasity will either work toward marriage or work toward being clearly separated (even if they have commitments that keep them in each others lives, like kids). Someone who moves in with and continues to call the other their Boy/Girl Friend is not bringing forth the fruits of repentance. Those who have the task of judging repentance are totally correct find the person to be unrepentant. If said person is also ignoring counsel and defying instructions, well then it is very clear. Said person is failing and needs to repent. Thinking that it is all done and should be behind them is in serious error and said error needs correcting. I have changed completely from the person I was. I stopped doing so many bad things and now I am just fed up with my bishop not seeing how much I have changed. I even thought about giving up on trying to be a better person because I felt like people will only ever see my past mistakes. Only because God has given me strength to keep trying to be better and he has given me faith that one day I will be like Christ that I continue to try. I know that God is going to bless me for trying and he is going to bless my son too. So even though you think I am in error I know that God knows my heart and my intentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 7 hours ago, anatess2 said: A baby needs a stable home with a Father and a Mother who love each other so that the baby can learn to love. The baby needs safety and surety, not just physically but also mentally and emotionally. This safety and surety can only be found in a household of committed adults who shows stability and commitment (marriage) and love and kindness and all those things Christ taught us, even when the going gets rough. I hope that my girlfriend will marry someone who loves the baby so they can live with 2 parents who love them. I will also marry with a woman who will love the baby. So the baby will have 4 parents who love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Vort said: Consider: If Junior doesn't sound like a prize for a husband/father/breadwinner, his girlfriend is likely to be cut from the same cloth. My girlfriend could do a lot better than me, but she loves me so I would be a good prize for her. I am going to be a good father and I can be a good provider for the baby and my girlfriend. I already have 2 jobs and I am planning my future career that will allow me to make more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KScience Posted February 9, 2019 Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) When the majority of people here are giving you the same response as your Bishop with explanations of their support; I would suggest that instead of protesting so much, that you consider why everyone, including your Bishop and your mother, see things in a different way to you. Your actions will speak louder than any words and a change of heart is a long term commitment and your actions to date do not match your words - at least on the surface (i.e. going directly against church teachings and the council of your Bishop) You are a young man who is trying to do what he thinks is best; BUT to do better you will need to do what Heavenly Father thinks is best. To desire going to the temple is a worthy aspiration, but your concern at the moment seems to be to go NOW rather than when you will be spiritually more able to appreciate the experience. I waited for years to get my own endowment as I was not getting married or going on a mission and my Stake President required waiting for one of these circumstances for YSA's. Please note I had no worthiness issues. It was a good exercise in patience and understanding that things will happen in the Lords time and according to a bigger picture that I am not aware of. At no point did I think it would be appropriate to "bad mouth" my SP (I consider you to have done this to your Bishop on this forum), but that I should sustain him and try and learn from the experience. My only advice to you would be - take this issue to the lord in prayer and leave it with him. Then work on being the best person you can be and live within the bounds that are expected of you. Edited February 9, 2019 by KScience SilentOne and Vort 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted February 9, 2019 Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 17 minutes ago, Junior said: I have changed completely from the person I was. I stopped doing so many bad things and now I am just fed up with my bishop not seeing how much I have changed. I even thought about giving up on trying to be a better person because I felt like people will only ever see my past mistakes. Only because God has given me strength to keep trying to be better and he has given me faith that one day I will be like Christ that I continue to try. I know that God is going to bless me for trying and he is going to bless my son too. So even though you think I am in error I know that God knows my heart and my intentions. It is not your past mistakes we are seeing... It is your current actions from your own mouth that you are being judged on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, estradling75 said: It is not your past mistakes we are seeing... It is your current actions from your own mouth that you are being judged on Nothing I have done recently is a serious sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted February 9, 2019 Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 18 minutes ago, Junior said: Nothing I have done recently is a serious sin. Pride is a serious sin and one that counters true change/repentence. unixknight and Vort 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: Pride is a serious sin and one that counters true change/repentence. In my opinion I am not proud. I am very ashamed of the person I used to be I am proud of myself for changing but I dont think that makes me a proud person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted February 9, 2019 Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, Junior said: In my opinion I am not proud. I am very ashamed of the person I used to be I am proud of myself for changing but I dont think that makes me a proud person. Junior, when you get angry at your bishop and insists he doesn't see things right, like you do, then THAT is pridefulness. When many people tell you essentially the same thing, and your response to all of them is, in effect, "You're all wrong and I'm right", that's pridefulness. When you refuse to consider what others tell you, both casual friends and knowledgeable leaders, because you're sure that you know better and you're right, that's pridefulness. Believe it or not, I'm not trying to come down on you. I am assuming you're sincere and not just trolling for responses, and I want you to succeed. My guess is that almost everyone who has responded on this thread also wants you to succeed. But we see that your actions and your reasoning are both incorrect. It's good that you want to take care of your girlfriend and your baby; it's not good that you're living with her and being less than honest with her. It's good that you want to go to the temple; it's not good that you defy the bishop and insist that he's wrong. It's good that you want to repent and be clean; it's not good that you have already determined that your repentance and cleansing is now complete, and everyone else must acknowledge that fact. What we're trying to say is: Be humble. "Humble" literally means "low to the ground". That's what you need to be (figuratively). You need to be on your knees before God, asking for guidance and promising to follow it. You need to be quiet when talking to your bishop, saying little else besides "I'll do that" and "Show me the way." Stop arguing, stop complaining, and for heaven's sake, STOP THINKING ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT IN THE NEAR TERM. Focus on what you want in your life: A close relationship with the Spirit, a wife you love and serve and who is learning to love and serve you back, and healthy, happy children who are wanted and loved by their parents and are learning the truths of loving family life and of the gospel. Leave everything else behind. Much better that you go to the temple two years from now in a clean and worthy state than that you get your temple recommend tomorrow in your current state. Seriously, Junior. We're pulling for you. We aren't trying to shoot you down. But you need to take up the challenge, humble yourself, and make some important changes. Lecture finished. SilentOne, Midwest LDS, KScience and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted February 9, 2019 Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 57 minutes ago, Vort said: Seriously, Junior. We're pulling for you. We aren't trying to shoot you down. But you need to take up the challenge, humble yourself, and make some important changes. Beautifully said. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manners Matter Posted February 9, 2019 Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 Oh, @Junior… I hope you'll really consider what others have shared. A couple other thoughts: ~ Growing up, my mom stressed to "avoid even the appearance of evil". I suggest you implement that idea (no more living with females you're not related to!). 1 Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. ~ You're bothered with the bishop because your unrealistic expectations haven't been met. What you've done is incredibly serious! It's like you stole a 10 cent candy from the store - you broke the Law of Chastity for crying out loud. To think you should get a temple recommend so quickly is preposterous! Tell yourself you'll be worthy/ready in 5 years so in case you *qualify* sooner, it will be a pleasant surprise instead of the frustration you've set yourself up for at this point. ~ I haven't read it but maybe find a copy of "The Miracle of Forgiveness" by Spencer W. Kimball. It might help you get a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Manners Matter said: ~ You're bothered with the bishop because your unrealistic expectations haven't been met. What you've done is incredibly serious! It's like you stole a 10 cent candy from the store - you broke the Law of Chastity for crying out loud. To think you should get a temple recommend so quickly is preposterous! Tell yourself you'll be worthy/ready in 5 years so in case you *qualify* sooner, it will be a pleasant surprise instead of the frustration you've set yourself up for at this point. 5 years that is too long to wait. Also, even though I agree it is a serious sin it was at least 6 months ago now that I started repenting I think that is enough time to repent, because I should have like a clean slate since 6 months and I think the person I have been for the last 6 months is temple worthy and it hurts me that my bishop doesn't agree. 7 hours ago, Manners Matter said: ~ Growing up, my mom stressed to "avoid even the appearance of evil". I suggest you implement that idea (no more living with females you're not related to!). Well I will be related to her through the baby. It is kind of tricky for me because I want to be there for her and the baby but I don't want people to get the wrong idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 9, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2019 (edited) 20 hours ago, Vort said: Believe it or not, I'm not trying to come down on you. I am assuming you're sincere and not just trolling for responses, and I want you to succeed. My guess is that almost everyone who has responded on this thread also wants you to succeed. But we see that your actions and your reasoning are both incorrect. It's good that you want to take care of your girlfriend and your baby; it's not good that you're living with her and being less than honest with her. It's good that you want to go to the temple; it's not good that you defy the bishop and insist that he's wrong. It's good that you want to repent and be clean; it's not good that you have already determined that your repentance and cleansing is now complete, and everyone else must acknowledge that fact. I don't live with my girlfriend. I guess I don't understand why my repentance wouldn't be complete. 20 hours ago, Vort said: Leave everything else behind. Much better that you go to the temple two years from now in a clean and worthy state than that you get your temple recommend tomorrow in your current state. I know people who have temple recommends but in the last 6 months I have been just as good a person as them so I don't see why I can't at least have an interview for one. I know obviously I am not perfect but I take it personally that the bishop thinks I am unworthy of going to the temple when I feel like God is telling me it is important for me to go to the temple. Edited February 9, 2019 by Junior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KScience Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 Junior at this point I am not sure what you are expecting anyone to say to you. All responses have been along the same lines, and you have received some heartfelt and wise counsel from a number of people who don't know you and can only judge your situation (notice NOT judging you) from how you have represented yourself here. Continuing to repeat yourself will not help you to understand any netter our points of view. All that is left is for you to pray with an open heart and mind for further enlightenment and counsel with your Bishop, who is doing his level best to support you. BeccaKirstyn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Junior said: I know people who have temple recommends but in the last 6 months I have been just as good a person as them so I don't see why I can't at least have an interview for one. I know obviously I am not perfect but I take it personally that the bishop thinks I am unworthy of going to the temple when I feel like God is telling me it is important for me to go to the temple. Your desire to go to the temple is a GOOD thing. Your desire to be sealed to someone is a GOOD thing. But these GOOD things don't instantly appear just because you want them. If you want to go to walk the temple grounds, you certainly are welcome to do that today. I've personally been to the Laie temple grounds and visitor center and find them to be very beautiful and spiritual. I don't know if the Big Island temple has a visitor center. That is good and something you can do today. But today you are not ready to stand as a personal representative of Christ in performing a saving ordinance. This is because you recently cheated on Christ-- you betrayed the promises you made with Him and instead made your love of worldly things your Lord. Now, you are working your way back- totally acknowledging that. But it takes time for relationships to rebuild and you're still working on accepting Christ as your Lord and not worldly things (like your pride). You need to quit thinking about yourself and your ego, and instead bow down before the Lord. Things like being there for Sacrament-- being there for the celebration of what He did for you. Holding with loyalty to Him, rather than flirting with betrayal again. Christ DOES want you to go to the temple and serve as His representative there. He wants you to make those changes in your life so you can be that representative of His and honor your relationship with Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 I spend my life responding to emails from people in their twenties. The sentence structure and syntax displayed in Junior’s messages is remarkably mature. I strongly believe that this person is not a young adult. zil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manners Matter Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 (edited) On 2/9/2019 at 4:13 PM, Junior said: 5 years that is too long to wait. Also, even though I agree it is a serious sin it was at least 6 months ago now that I started repenting I think that is enough time to repent, because I should have like a clean slate since 6 months and I think the person I have been for the last 6 months is temple worthy and it hurts me that my bishop doesn't agree. Well I will be related to her through the baby. It is kind of tricky for me because I want to be there for her and the baby but I don't want people to get the wrong idea. You totally missed the point. No, you won't be related to her. Associated, yes; related, no. Edited February 12, 2019 by Manners Matter Jane_Doe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 5 hours ago, Junior said: I guess I don't understand why my repentance wouldn't be complete. Because you are prideful, disobedient, and unrepentant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday21 Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 @zil. I knew it! Madame High Verbal IQ spotted it before I did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted February 10, 2019 Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Sunday21 said: @zil. I knew it! Madame High Verbal IQ spotted it before I did! No, I just liked what you wrote - I've mostly been ignoring this thread because the OP is obdurate. unixknight 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted February 10, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2019 7 hours ago, Sunday21 said: I spend my life responding to emails from people in their twenties. The sentence structure and syntax displayed in Junior’s messages is remarkably mature. I strongly believe that this person is not a young adult. You are wrong because I am 19 and I have dyslexia and English isn't even my first language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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