Green New Deal - AOC and Ed Markey version


anatess2
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14 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Thought so.  Since you've only been paying attention for around 10 years, your statement "This is the first time in my life I’ve seen new ideas" is understandable and makes sense.

You might want to avail yourself of a bit of history.  We've seen encroaching socialism before.  There is absolutely nothing new happening with Bernie, or AOC.  I figure the more you read about the history of human effort to advance socialist elements, the more you'll come to understand that it's really not a good idea.

That post really tells me nothing. It just shows that you are making an assumption that I’m unschooled and unread. 

As far as socialism: there is socialism for the rich and rugged individualism for the poor as MLK jr. would say. The Trump tax bill was socialism for the rich. Do you really believe that tax cut was more than just a give away to him and his friends? If you believe that maybe it’s time to diversify your news consumption. You should atleast hedge your bet on news consumption just by the off chance that you’re being told a load of crap.

The last time we had a socialist president was FDR. He ushered in social security and a number of other popular programs. The next President we get will be a socialist and will usher in more popular policies. DJT is atleast a little concerned about the prospect given his mention of socialism in the SOTU.

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40 minutes ago, Tyme said:

I can venture to guess you don’t make ten million a year and/or are worth 50 million. Her tax ideas wouldn’t touch a penny more in your pocket. If you listen to right wing pundits they may have you thinking it would affect you. It won’t that’s just scare tactics by right wing punditry.

First, the fact that I’m not the one being stolen from does not make the theft OK.  

Second, the notion that liquidating/redistributing repositories of capital does not affect the economy of which I form a part, betrays a laughable ignorance of how the economy works.

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6 minutes ago, Tyme said:

Do you really believe that tax cut was more than just a give away to him and his friends? 

*Shrug* My tax refund nearly doubled this year, and I’m far less economically privileged than that ditsy dilettante AOC.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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16 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

:: snickers:: 

I'm pro choice, pro gay marriage, anti death penalty, pro gun, anti war,  and was in the ACLU for years.  

But I do like how you think I'm a conservative because of my views on economics-so thank you.  Social conservatives think I'm a liberal. 

I know I’ve read a lot of your posts. Just wrote that because I didn’t like your coarse attitude in your prior post.

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9 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

*Shrug* My tax refund nearly doubled this year, and I’m far less economically privileged than that ditsy dilettante AOC.

Just because she’s 28 and a woman doesn’t make her ditzy. I again question your position as a prosecutor if you think all young women are ditzy and gays are somewhere on the continuum of evil and predators. Those are some faulty inferences for a prosecutor to make.

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10 minutes ago, Tyme said:

I know I’ve read a lot of your posts. Just wrote that because I didn’t like your coarse attitude in your prior post.

It was more rude than coarse, but I have a thing against anyone who assumes that you don't care for working people/the poor just because you don't embrace leftist economics. 

Edited by MormonGator
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3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

It's more rude than coarse, but I have a thing against anyone who assumes that you don't care for working people/the poor just because you don't embrace leftist economics. 

Fair enough. What’s your ideas or ideas you like in regards to the the poor?

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38 minutes ago, Tyme said:

Just because she’s 28 and a woman doesn’t make her ditzy. I again question your position as a prosecutor if you think all young women are ditzy and gays are somewhere on the continuum of evil and predators. Those are some faulty inferences for a prosecutor to make.

I note that you’ve abandoned your previous allegation about tax reform beingn a Trump-crony-giveaway.  You’ve also slithered away from my points about theft being theft regardless of whether *I’m* the one being stolen from, and about the role of accumulations the capital in a free market.  So . . . I win, I guess?

As for your most recent post:  Those are some faulty inferences about *me* for *you* to make.  I limited my comment to a specific congresswoman who made a particularly harebrained proposal.  And who, by the way, IS more economically privileged than myself. 

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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4 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Home and community based voluntary charity.  Keep your hands out of my pockets, thanks.

In a dream world, yes, that would be my ideal goal as well. Sadly though, I accept that government run welfare isn't going anywhere. In fact, like Jefferson said it is the nature of things for government to grow, and liberty to shrink. It's heartbreaking but also true. 

First off, leftists have to define "poor". It's a very abstract and subjective word, hard to pin down for sure. 
Second, leftists can't understand that taxation of all kinds hurts....the poor more than the rich. With the exception of a land tax (which I'm in favor of) all taxation hurts poor people. 
Thirdly, leftists can't understand that many poor people are poor because of their own behavior. If you don't graduate high school, have four kids out of wedlock, and can't keep a job, it's not my fault. It's not "the systems" the fault. It's your own fault. 
Fourthly, there will always be poor people. In fact, when the government tries to interfere, it just ends up creating more poor people. 

I could go on and on and on. 

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8 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I note that you’ve abandoned your previous allegation about tax reform beingn a Trump-crony-giveaway.  You’ve also slithered away from my points about theft being theft regardless of whether *I’m* the one being stolen from, and about the role of accumulations the capital in a free market.  So . . . I win, I guess?

As for your most recent post:  Those are some faulty inferences about *me* for *you* to make.  I limited my comment to a specific congresswoman who made a particularly harebrained proposal.  And who, by the way, IS more economically privileged than myself. 

You just stated your problem perfectly.  To me forums are more about learning than winning. That must be the lawyer mentality coming out in you. Only a simpleminded person would choose winning over learning.

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2 minutes ago, Grunt said:

Why are you so insulting?

First thing you and I have ever agreed on here! 

@Tyme, you are bringing people together. Thank you! 

Edited by MormonGator
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6 minutes ago, Tyme said:

You just stated your problem perfectly.  To me forums are more about learning than winning. That must be the lawyer mentality coming out in you. Only a simpleminded person would choose winning over learning.

Learning comes through debate, which comes from honest people making assertions and then backing them up through rational arguments while not deliberately constructing straw-man positions for their adversaries.  Sadly, you have already written a number of things here that are patently false, and attributed positions to people that are not substantiated by an honest reading of their posts.

When one’s counterpart in a discussion/debate proves himself to be both spectacularly uninformed and cynically dishonest (not to mention possessed by intellectual laziness of the highest order), then yeah; informed debate degenerates  into a dog-and-pony show and “winning” is all that’s left.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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6 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Learning comes through debate, which comes from honest people making assertions and then backing them up through rational arguments while not deliberately constructing straw-man positions for their adversaries.  Sadly, you have already written a number of things here that are patently false, and attributed positions to people that are not substantiated by an honest reading of their posts.

When one’s counterpart in a discussion/debate proves himself to be both spectacularly uninformed and cynically dishonest (not to mention possessed by intellectual laziness of the highest order), then yeah; informed debate degenerates  into a dog-and-pony show and “winning” is all that’s left.  

Yeah, anyone calling @Just_A_Guy "simpleminded" shows more on themselves than @Just_A_Guy

Now, calling @mirkwood simpleminded, totally fine. 

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2 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Learning comes through debate, which comes from honest people making assertions and then backing them up through rational arguments while not deliberately constructing straw-man positions for their adversaries.  Sadly, you have already written a number of things here that are patently false, and attributed positions to people that are not substantiated by an honest reading of their posts.

When one’s counterpart in a discussion/debate proves himself to be both spectacularly uninformed and cynically dishonest, then yeah; debate becomes a dog-and-pony show and “winning” is all that’s left.  

You previously stated the following, “I win.” Then when I state it’s not all about winning you spectacularly back track. That’s the most amazing back track since DJT back tracked on the shut down. You’re a serial back tracker, master of misinformation and astonishly dishonest poster. Just because you disagree with my posts doesn’t give you the right to lob ad hominem attacks. You don’t want to learn or win you really just want this forum to be an echo chamber. If you really wanted to learn you’d go to a forum with divergent thinking from your own. This forum is an echo chamber on par with Breitbart and you’re the chief perpetrator of said echo chamber.

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2 minutes ago, Tyme said:

[1]You previously stated the following, “I win.”

[2]Then when I state it’s not all about winning you spectacularly back track. That’s the most amazing back track since DJT back tracked on the shut down. You’re a serial back tracker, master of misinformation and astonishly dishonest poster. Just because you disagree with my posts doesn’t give you the right to lob ad hominem attacks. You don’t want to learn or win you really just want this forum to be an echo chamber. If you really wanted to learn you’d go to a forum with divergent thinking from your own. This forum is an echo chamber on par with Breitbart and you’re the chief perpetrator of said echo chamber.

1.  Actually, what I said was “I win, I guess?”.  Your putting my statement through the chop shop pretty much affirms everything I wrote in my preceding post.

2.  Ad hominem.  Got it.

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20 hours ago, Tyme said:

I’m glad God has mad you the arbiter of real news for the forum anatess. You can’t help yourself no matter what you post your extreme bias shows. The stuff you post is the most partisan I’ve ever seen. It’s not truth that you post — it’s pure bias. 

Where do you come up with this “news”? It’s totally inaccurate and mischaracterizea the whole resolution. Just remember most people will believe what you post as is seen in this thread. I would recommend posting both sides to give people a fair shake.

Ha ha... Nice try.

I pulled that NEWS right out of AOC's website.  She took the thing down.  And now she sent an adviser all over the MSM gaslighting those who reported on it as saying - "we never said anything of the sort".   But the internet NEVER forgets!   That's why you don't send pictures of your naked privates into the internet.

78n2.jpg

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14 hours ago, Tyme said:

I’ve been following politics for about ten years.

Hah hah... There ya go.  @NeuroTypical hit the nail on the head.

I got advise for you.  Read political history.  I mean, you don't even have to go back very far.  World History for the last 100 years should suffice.  120 years if you want to include the role of yellow journalism in the Spanish-American War.

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14 hours ago, Tyme said:

When every scientist is saying climate change is real and is having an immediate impact I tend to take note.

I bet you got that information from the quote "97% of scientists agree", right?  I'll give you an assignment.  This is gonna be a tough one but I'm sure you can do it... figure out how the 97% number was arrived at.  Research research research.... and since you admit to not being politically partisan, make sure that in your research, you note the bias of the source and make sure it's not all coming from Moveon.org or something.

In any case, any sane person on the planet knows that climate changes.  I mean, even little kids know there was such a movie called Ice Age Meltdown and that the woolly mammoths didn't really speak or hang from trees but there was really such a thing as an Ice Age and a Meltdown.  The idea that climate change has to be stopped... or that we can stop it by stopping cows from farting is where not all scientists agree.

 

Edited by anatess2
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35 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I bet you got that information from the quote "97% of scientists agree", right?  I'll give you an assignment.  This is gonna be a tough one but I'm sure you can do it... figure out how the 97% number was arrived at.  Research research research.... and since you admit to not being politically partisan, make sure that in your research, you note the bias of the source and make sure it's not all coming from Moveon.org or something.

In any case, any sane person on the planet knows that climate changes.  I mean, even little kids know there was such a movie called Ice Age Meltdown and that the woolly mammoths didn't really speak or hang from trees but there was really such a thing as an Ice Age and a Meltdown.  The idea that climate change has to be stopped... or that we can stop it by stopping cows from farting is where not all scientists agree.

 

AND when you've finished that research, research the impact to climate change that would occur if the US went to a ZERO carbon model.   

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43 minutes ago, Colirio said:

Silly conservatives...

 

The only way to fix this mess is to pay more money to the government! Problem solved! 

 

And when that doesn't work, at least you can feel better that you at least tried SOMEthing! 

 

The funny thing is... the same people who think we should give more money to the government is the same people who think Trump is a fascist.  :lol:

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12 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

The funny thing is... the same people who think we should give more money to the government is the same people who think Trump is a fascist.  :lol:

That's not funny! The only way to end fascism is by forcing people to accept appropriate ideals. 

 

Just like government taxation is the only way to stop the climate from changing. Through the sheer force of financial punishment against the wealthy we can make sure our CHILDREN are safe from climate catastrophy! Did you even think of the children?  

 

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19 minutes ago, Colirio said:

That's not funny! The only way to end fascism is by forcing people to accept appropriate ideals. 

 

Just like government taxation is the only way to stop the climate from changing. Through the sheer force of financial punishment against the wealthy we can make sure our CHILDREN are safe from climate catastrophy! Did you even think of the children?  

 

So... if the wealthy are the cause of climate change... why don't we just put them on a table, make them comfortable... while we decide if we should abort them?

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