Who is your Satan?


mikbone
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While we were discussing this weeks Come, Follow Me; we discussed Satan, his intent and personality.

No doubt he is a troubled and interesting character.  He must charismatic, extremely knowledgeable, experienced, and a sociopath. 

But I don't see him as a whiny car salesman...

Image result for Corbin Allred Darryl Yeager Michael Ballam

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”   ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

In my mind Satan's character is a mix between Al Pacino character in The Devil's Advocate.

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And C.S. Lewis's Screwtape.

sluploadfk7.jpg

 

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It doesn't take much research to understand who Satan is as a being. 

He is evil personified, selfish, vengeful and hate-filled. Rage and egotism, having nothing but contempt for life and freedom.

We would do well to focus on the aspects of Jesus the Christ, our redeemer and savior. He is filled with love, joy and happiness. The most giving being in existence and He should be our end goal. I think this hymn says it all.

Rev'rently and Meekly Now,

1. Rev'rently and meekly now,
Let thy head most humbly bow.
Think of me, thou ransomed one;
Think what I for thee have done.
With my blood that dripped like rain,
Sweat in agony of pain,
With my body on the tree
I have ransomed even thee.

2. In this bread now blest for thee,
Emblem of my body see;
In this water or this wine,
Emblem of my blood divine.
Oh, remember what was done
That the sinner might be won.
On the cross of Calvary
I have suffered death for thee.

3. Bid thine heart all strife to cease;
With thy brethren be at peace.
Oh, forgive as thou wouldst be
E'en forgiven now by me.
In the solemn faith of prayer
Cast upon me all thy care,
And my Spirit's grace shall be
Like a fountain unto thee.

4. At the throne I intercede;
For thee ever do I plead.
I have loved thee as thy friend,
With a love that cannot end.
Be obedient, I implore,
Prayerful, watchful evermore,
And be constant unto me,
That thy Savior I may be.

Text: Joseph L. Townsend, 1849-1942
Music: Ebenezer Beesley, 1840-1906

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55 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I have never understood - if Lucifer was so smart and cleaver – why did he rebel against G-d?  How can someone so smart be so stupid?

 

The Traveler

 

The more and more one rebels against God, the less and less he knows concerning the will and mysteries of God. This occurs because as the descent toward perdition continues downward the Spirit of God is withdrawn until the inner light of divine truth, knowledge and wisdom is totally extinguished. The only “knowledge” that’s left after the inner light of the Spirit has been extinguished is a diabolical spirit of hatred that stands in diametric opposition to all the divine attributes of God. In other words, except for the perverse knowledge he possesses of how to go about attempting to destroy all that’s good and holy, he is an ignoramus. True intelligence cannot exist apart from the Spirit of God.

10 And therefore, he that will aharden his heart, the same receiveth the blesser portion of the word; and he that will cnotharden his heart, to him is dgiven the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.

11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser aportion of the word until they bknow nothing concerning his mysteries...( Alma 12)

Edited by Jersey Boy
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Can I say "My ex wife?"

In seriousness, I agree with @mikbone.  The genius of Pacino's portrayal of Satan in Devil's Advocate is laid out when he points out that at every turn, he openly, verbally recommended the proper course of action to the protagonist while at the same time setting out lures to keep him following the desired path.  That way, in the end, he could say "Hey, I didn't force you to do anything."  And he is correct.  The protagonist was in full control of his own agency the entire time, and thus bears the responsibility for all the tragedy and heartache that ensued.  

I think that's spot on.  It's a fantastic example of the paving of the road to Hell.  We all have our Achilles' Heel when it comes to temptation, and all Satan has to do is toss out opportunities for temptation.  He doesn't do anything by force.  He can't, or even if he could it wouldn't be a win for him.  If he forces us to do bad things, then we don't bear the responsibility... we were forced.  That's not sin, that's being a victim.  In order for us to sin, in order for us to do what he'd want us to do, we have to choose it for ourselves.  Then we're being disobedient to God, because we used our agency to distance ourselves from him.

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 “There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors and hail a materialist or a magician with the same delight.”  -  C. S. Lewis

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According to the vision with Wilford Woodruff and Heber C. Kimball, Satan probably has a dark and violent countenance. However if I was to imagine him as a man, he would probably look like this.

media.jpg.eb78c81a261599d2e0064a5187af568b.jpg

Inviting and welcoming but also kind of off, like there's something not quite right. He'll get you to trust him so that he can run you in when you're not looking.

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Have you guys noticed that new series on Netflix called 'Lucifer?'  I have no desire to watch it, but it's apparently a TV show about Lucifer as the protagonist.

Yeah, here we are guys.  We live in a world that unironically casts the Devil as the good guy on a TV show.  (Unsurprising, I suppose, given everything else that' s going on.)

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Oh yeah, that's old news.  Supernatural has God as an uncaring abandoning disinterested deity, kind of a hippie.  And hell is ruled by various bad guys who vie for power and whatnot, but you really get where lucifer is coming from.  Poor guy has been wronged by his dad.

I'll stick with The Screwtape Letters, if that's ok.  

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On 2/12/2019 at 7:26 AM, MarginOfError said:

Who is my Satan?

<----------------------------- This guy.

Maybe this is true for us all. (Not that MoE is our Satan—I'll let you decide that one for yourselves.) I think that at some point in our spiritual progress, sooner for some and perhaps later for others, we reach a point where we are no longer our own enemies. At that point, I think, we start winning.

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2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Maybe this is true for us all. (Not that MoE is our Satan—I'll let you decide that one for yourselves.) I think that at some point in our spiritual progress, sooner for some and perhaps later for others, we reach a point where we are no longer our own enemies. At that point, I think, we start winning.

I'll be your Satan, for the right price.

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On 2/10/2019 at 1:52 PM, Traveler said:

I have never understood - if Lucifer was so smart and cleaver – why did he rebel against G-d?  How can someone so smart be so stupid?

There is vastly more that we don't know regarding Satan and his fall than what we do know. The true depth of Satan's motivation is hidden from us, perhaps (probably) because we are mostly incapable of understanding the depth of hunger for glory and power. Satan is vastly powerful; I have little doubt that none of us is capable of withstanding his attacks on our own. Joseph Smith, even as a very young man, was one of the spiritually mighty of the Father's children, yet testified that Satan's power almost entirely overcame him, and that he would have been destroyed if not for God's direct intervention.

I grew up believing and being taught that Satan was powerless over us unless we gave him power. Perhaps that is true. But I think there is a belief that goes along hand-in-hand with that, to the effect that Satan is a weak and pathetic being. The "pathetic" part is true, perhaps; but the "weak" is true only in comparison with the Father and the Son. Satan is powerful, and he will overcome and destroy us, each of us, if we do not guard against him.

Not to be a scare-monger. I spend little time thinking about Satan. I recommend that course of action to all.

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Guest MormonGator
12 minutes ago, Vort said:

I spend little time thinking about Satan. I recommend that course of action to all.

"There are two equal and opposite errors into which our race can fall about the devils. One is to disbelieve in their existence. The other is to believe, and to feel an excessive and unhealthy interest in them. They themselves are equally pleased by both errors"-CS Lewis. 

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There is a Ted Bundy thread in the general forums and it got me to thinking, Bundy is perhaps as close to what Satan is like. Ted Bundy stated late in his life that he felt no compassion for people, pretty much viewed humanity as a waste. I think Satan views life the same. Just like Satan, Bundy liked the control and possession of others.

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2 minutes ago, Vort said:

[Not quoting any specific thing.  Just quoting so that you get notified that you are being quoted]

There are a mixture of things I disagree with and agree with in your statements.  I, personally, find Satan to be a fascinating character, and one I've occasionally focused my study on.  Ultimately, I have to agree that it's true, there is a great deal more we don't know about Satan than there is that we know.  And so most of the reasoning and conclusions I come to take the form of "If we assume that he....." and conclude with "it is plausible that...."  So I can't make any strong assertions regarding his character or motivations.

I also agree that we don't understand the "depth of hunger for glory and power." I'm inclined to believe, for no  particular reason, that Satan wanted the glory and majesty of being a God, but didn't want to put in the effort to get it.  Hence, removing agency, rather than suffering an Atonement. It was raw, unchecked ambition; such ambition has disastrous consequences (which is a good lesson unto itself).

However, I disagree with you about Satan's power.  In general, I think he's pretty weak, and ends up being scapegoated a lot for our own pride and ambition.  Which puts me in an interesting position--I think Satan is one of the more interesting and compelling figures in our religion, but I don't bother talking about him much, because I don't think he exerts as much influence as we tend to think (humans are perfectly capable of screwing up the world without his help).

Lastly, I tend to find that the things we say about Satan often tend to be like the things we say about Christ--that is, the things we say tend to say more about ourselves than they do about them. 

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7 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Ted Bundy stated late in his life that he felt no compassion for people, pretty much viewed humanity as a waste. I think Satan views life the same.

 

6 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

I tend to find that the things we say about Satan often tend to be like the things we say about Christ--that is, the things we say tend to say more about ourselves than they do about them. 

 

This juxtaposition made me chuckle.

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Guest MormonGator
57 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Ted Bundy stated late in his life that he felt no compassion for people, pretty much viewed humanity as a waste.

Oh man, this sounds like @Vort. We should check his crawlspace. Anyone heard from Mrs. Vort lately? Is she okay? 

Edited by MormonGator
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Who is my Satan?

1) Ms. Anddenex when she says "No."

2) @pam when she censors me and tells me, "You betta watch yourself."

3) @MormonGator - because he lives in Florida

4) @Vort - because he makes me feel I still write as if I am in elementary school.

5) @Just_A_Guy - because he is just a guy.

6) @SpiritDragon - because he is stronger than me

7) @MarginOfError - because you don't even know he's Mormon

I could write more but this suffices me for the moment.

 

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On 2/10/2019 at 3:12 PM, mikbone said:

While we were discussing this weeks Come, Follow Me; we discussed Satan, his intent and personality.

No doubt he is a troubled and interesting character.  He must charismatic, extremely knowledgeable, experienced, and a sociopath. 

But I don't see him as a whiny car salesman...

Image result for Corbin Allred Darryl Yeager Michael Ballam

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”   ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

In my mind Satan's character is a mix between Al Pacino character in The Devil's Advocate.

Related image

 

And C.S. Lewis's Screwtape.

sluploadfk7.jpg

 

I have been asking myself an unusual question for several years now............... 

could Satan.......  ultimately be thinking surprisingly like Stanley Milgram Ph. D. who conducted a rather shocking experiment during the time of the Nuremberg War Crimes trials????

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

 

Quote

 

The Milgram experiment on obedience to authority figures was a series of social psychology experiments conducted by Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram. They measured the willingness of study participants, men from a diverse range of occupations with varying levels of education, to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts conflicting with their personal conscience. Participants were led to believe that they were assisting an unrelated experiment, in which they had to administer electric shocks to a "learner." These fake electric shocks gradually increased to levels that would have been fatal had they been real.[2]

The experiment found, unexpectedly, that a very high proportion of men would fully obey the instructions, albeit reluctantly. Milgram first described his research in a 1963 article in the Journal of Abnormal and Social Psychology[1] and later discussed his findings in greater depth in his 1974 book, Obedience to Authority: An Experimental View.[3]

The experiments began in July 1961, in the basement of Linsly-Chittenden Hall at Yale University,[4] three months after the start of the trial of German Nazi war criminalAdolf Eichmann in Jerusalem. Milgram devised his psychological study to answer the popular contemporary question: "Could it be that Eichmann and his million accomplices in the Holocaust were just following orders? Could we call them all accomplices?"[5] The experiment was repeated many times around the globe, with fairly consistent results.[6]

 

 

I listened to the Book of Moses several times over these past few weeks..........

and the question comes to mind that maybe.... just maybe..... Satan wasn't joking about having a plan to drive everybody toward "salvation"..... by driving everybody lower and lower and lower and lower until everybody rebelled and returned to G-d with their whole heart.........?????

 

 

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