A suggestion on how LDS membership can surge?


DennisTate
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I am a former member of the Worldwide Church of God who got myself disfellowshipped after I began to study near death experience accounts and could no longer go along with the Soul Sleep teachings of that church.

I would not trade that church though for the way that they brought me up out of Atheism.

The WWCG produced two major written publications, "The Plain Truth" magazine that was mostly watching world events and trends with a few basic scriptures tossed in to get the reader interested in reading the Bible.

"The Good News" magazine on the other hand was quite "meaty" in the sense that it quoted a lot of scriptures from both the Jewish Bible and the New Testaments. 

There was also a newspaper like publication for specific church news.

I have began several forums with a title something like "Near death experiences Bring us Together" and they really are surging in membership and participation.  The first group that I began with that name already has over ten thousand members on a Closed facebook group.  

I have delegated the majority of the Administration to some actual near death experiencers but I do still participate there a lot.  

If... you were to begin a society or foundation with a title something along that line... you could easily do meetings in the areas of every ward that might get a surprisingly positive response.  

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If your local missionaries were involved in those groups.......

it could be amazing how many doors would probably open up for your missionaries.  

Even if people don't become full fledged members of the Latter day Saints church.... still you would have assisted them to take one or two or more steps in generally the right direction in life.

Although I am not yet a Latter day Saint..... I am seriously impressed by how this discussion has gone so far:

 

 

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4 hours ago, DennisTate said:

I am a former member of the Worldwide Church of God who got myself disfellowshipped after I began to study near death experience accounts and could no longer go along with the Soul Sleep teachings of that church.

I would not trade that church though for the way that they brought me up out of Atheism.

The WWCG produced two major written publications, "The Plain Truth" magazine that was mostly watching world events and trends with a few basic scriptures tossed in to get the reader interested in reading the Bible.

"The Good News" magazine on the other hand was quite "meaty" in the sense that it quoted a lot of scriptures from both the Jewish Bible and the New Testaments. 

There was also a newspaper like publication for specific church news.

I have began several forums with a title something like "Near death experiences Bring us Together" and they really are surging in membership and participation.  The first group that I began with that name already has over ten thousand members on a Closed facebook group.  

I have delegated the majority of the Administration to some actual near death experiencers but I do still participate there a lot.  

If... you were to begin a society or foundation with a title something along that line... you could easily do meetings in the areas of every ward that might get a surprisingly positive response.  

I wonder why the Savior of the world didn't think of that when he established his 1st century church as well as his restored church in these latter days?

I suspect it has something to do with NDE's not being all that relevant, let alone authoritative, to the saving plan of God, regardless of how interesting and popular they may be--though podcast of gamers, like PewDiePie, number in the tens of millions, but that doesn't mean the Church should follow suit.

I suspect also that this post, as well as earlier posts, may be your round-about way of drumming up interest in your pet cause. If so,, it treads precariously close to violating board rules.

Thank,s -Wade Englund-

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5 hours ago, wenglund said:

I wonder why the Savior of the world didn't think of that when he established his 1st century church as well as his restored church in these latter days?

I suspect it has something to do with NDE's not being all that relevant, let alone authoritative, to the saving plan of God, regardless of how interesting and popular they may be--though podcast of gamers, like PewDiePie, number in the tens of millions, but that doesn't mean the Church should follow suit.

I suspect also that this post, as well as earlier posts, may be your round-about way of drumming up interest in your pet cause. If so,, it treads precariously close to violating board rules.

Thank,s -Wade Englund-

You could well be correct ....... I plead guilty to be fascinated by this subject.

but.....give some thought as to why the Scribes and Pharisees also wanted to kill Lazarus????

 

Quote

 

Much people of the Jews therefore knew that he was there: and they came not for Jesus’ sake only, but that they might see Lazarus also, whom he had raised from the dead.

10  But the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death;

11 Because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus.

12  On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

 

Did Lazarus have a personal testimony somewhat similar to that of Howard Storm...... .or Rabbi Alon Anava..... or other modern near death experiencers????

Could Lazarus have been the one who the Apostle Paul met above fourteen years ago who he referred to in II Corinthians 12:2-4????

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/2-cor/12?lang=eng

 

Quote

 

1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

 

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10 hours ago, DennisTate said:

You could well be correct ....... I plead guilty to be fascinated by this subject.

but.....give some thought as to why the Scribes and Pharisees also wanted to kill Lazarus????

Did Lazarus have a personal testimony somewhat similar to that of Howard Storm...... .or Rabbi Alon Anava..... or other modern near death experiencers????

Could Lazarus have been the one who the Apostle Paul met above fourteen years ago who he referred to in II Corinthians 12:2-4????

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/2-cor/12?lang=eng

My interest is in the reasons Jesus did what he did with Lazarus, rather than why the corrupt Jews back in the day may have wished to kill Lazarus. 

In other words, there is a wealth of  authoritative things for me to learn that are pertinent to the gospel that I find little or no motivation delving into the non-authoritative  and impertinent things, even if somewhat interesting and popular.

Besides, there is a bit of a merchandising feel to the NDE movement that I am suspicious of given this weeks lesson on clearing the temple.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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On 2/13/2019 at 11:37 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

These are some interesting ideas, Dennis; thanks.  

This is a basic idea that I did try myself about six years ago when my daughter was ten years old.  

I am a janitor at a school so I usually get seven or eight weeks off during the summer.  I read my daughter perhaps fifty or more of those NDE accounts that summer........ I had no particular church even in mind at that time other than to simply attend whatever church my wife really wanted to attend..........

I wanted my daughter to know that there is a G-d who loves her .... and even loves her dogs.....  She had three amazing dogs that really improved life for her....... one little guy was half Dashund and half Shitsu and he was fearless............ and super friendly....... but his fearlessness eventually got him killed when he even went out past the half kilometer distance on our dirt road to the paved highway....... and he got killed.  

We had another amazing Golden Lab - Sheperd mix who we miss so much.......  and reading about how some people meet their previous deceased pets gave my daughter a very positive image of her Creator and the plan for her life.... and our lives......... (and even for the lives of her dogs and cats.)

My daughter now has a very zealous prayer life...... and even knows how to intercede for others through prayer..... so my plan seems to have worked.  

 

 

Here is the same account in writing if you prefer:

 

https://www.near-death.com/experiences/with-pets/jan-price.html

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/13/2019 at 11:37 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

These are some interesting ideas, Dennis; thanks.  

Here is another angle on how all this could become extremely relevant to the plans that Messiah Yeshua - Jesus has for his own people the Jews.... as they interact with His own people.... .the Latter day Saints and other Christians who have asked for..... and been given the Holy Spirit.

 

 

Speaking of worship....  my heart is in my throat as I listen to this:

 

 

Regarding the change of the real Sabbath from Friday and sunset to Saturday and sunset by Christians.......

back in the fourth century the newly formed Roman Catholic Church was terrified of Jews.... and all things Jewish.... due partly to predictions that they

recorded in the eighth century edition of the Roman Catholic Encyclopaedia on the subject of the anti-Christ.

 

Here is a copy of an e-mail that I had sent off to Jerusalem Sanhedrin Rabbi Yeshayahu Julius Hollander back in 2010.  I will bold the parts that are most relevant to your question:

Shalom Rabby .......

 

I deeply appreciate your reply to my e-mail Sir.  

 

Back in the early '80's I was made aware that Catholic prophecy from well over

one thousand years ago stated emphatically that essentially the whole world was going to

become observant of the laws of Moshe.  A friend of mine attended Ambassador 

College in the '70's.  He said that there was an original set of the Catholic 

Encyclopaedia from the eighth century on the campus.  A friend of his knew Latin and

translated an article on The Antichrist. He was both shocked as well as encouraged

by the ideas expressed.

 

This article stated that in the latter days Christ would come to the earth first, and

things would be going great, then the Anti-Christ would come to the earth and cast

Christ into hell.  Soon the veneration of Mary would cease from the earth and

essentially everybody would begin to observe the Jewish Sabbaths, Holy Days

and eat kosher.

 

I am sure that you are well aware of these prophecies and how they fueled anti-Semitic

sentiment throughout the dark ages.  

 

Finally we are living in a time period when these ideas can be viewed in a whole 

new light.  The Christ who comes first could be understood to perhaps refer to

the final Elijah who is predicted to even be instrumental in the restoration of the

lost tribes of Israel.  The Christ who comes first could refer to Mashiach ben

Yosef/Joseph or even to the King Cyrus type predicted in Isaiah 42 - 46.  Considering that

the King Cyrus type does not himself know HaShem in a manner in which he

can be dogmatic, it is easy to understand why he would get along quite well

with the heirachy of the Roman Catholic Church.  

 

//I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I 

girded thee, though thou hast not known me:// (Isaiah 45:5) 

 

Since 1990 I have studied the near death experience continually.  It was interesting

that in 1975 Dannion Brinkley whose NDE was even made into a TV movie was shown

that Israel and Jordan would become one nation!?

 

He was shown that an attempt to unfiy Judaism, Christianity and Islam would be made

around 2000, but thankfully a lot of people were praying and events were altered.


 

http://www.dannion.com/09/tan/index-tan.htm

 

//“
Many of my visions concerned the Middle East:
…A part of the vision that is yet to take place involves a merger of the three main religions – Islam, Judaism and Christianity – in Israel. The visions revealed that the Catholic Church would successfully establish a Vatican “state-within-the-state” of Israel before the year 2000. Although the intent of this effort would be a peaceful one, this move would infuriate many Middle Easterners and would lead to war.”
Obviously, this did not happen before 2000 and now I know why. But let’s take a quick look at history before I tell you the rest of the story
...// (Dannion Brinkley)

 

 
 
 
As to the fact that Latter day Saints meet together on Sunday.... rather than on the Sabbath.......
I am thinking that Joseph Smith really did have prophetic ability and this judgment call sets up 
his disciples in the year 2019 to not appear to be such a threat to Jews.... and to Judaism.......
as many Jews regard people like me to be.
 
Some Latter day Saints have a calling to work with Jews as both Cephas / Peter and the Apostle Paul had.... and also Timothy who was even circumcised......
after becoming a Messianic Jew.....
a believer in Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus as Moshiach.... (perhaps as Moshiach ben Ephrayim the warrior Messiah)????
 
I gave a suggestion to the Latter day Saints here on the forum that could actually give them a project that they could work together with Orthodox, Chassidic, Conservative and Reform Jews on....... and this could be done on the real Shabbat.... Friday sunset to Saturday sunset.......
 
 
The full text of my message to Rabbi Hollander can be viewed in post # 7 here:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/tate4centralnova/my-correspondence-with-rabbi-t383.html#.VsDYdsf8iOw
 
(If I am not mistaken the President of the Latter day Saints and your twelve leading Prophets might just find my correspondence with Rabbi Hollander to be of some value)?!

 

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/14/2019 at 5:57 PM, wenglund said:

My interest is in the reasons Jesus did what he did with Lazarus, rather than why the corrupt Jews back in the day may have wished to kill Lazarus. 

In other words, there is a wealth of  authoritative things for me to learn that are pertinent to the gospel that I find little or no motivation delving into the non-authoritative  and impertinent things, even if somewhat interesting and popular.

Besides, there is a bit of a merchandising feel to the NDE movement that I am suspicious of given this weeks lesson on clearing the temple.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Agreed...... just as otherwise sincere Jewish scholars either participated in......

or at least allowed money changers into the Temple area in the time of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus so also

merchandising in many forms has crept into every branch of Christianity...... as well as into the near death experience movement......to some degree or another.  

 

But... I still think that my question over on another forum has some validity??????

 

The being of light of NDE fame, G-d or Satan?

It seems to me that we are in a situation somewhat like the time of the Prophet Elijah.

1Kings 18:21

And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

I began to study these experiences a great deal back in 1990. They immediately made me realize that the "soul sleep" doctrine that I had been taught was almost certainly in error. I got kicked out of two churches due to disagreements mainly over that doctrine. But as a Christian there was no way that I could deny the possibility of people having an "out of the body experience!"

2 Corinthians 12:2

I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 
And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

But I know that many Christians struggle with these accounts..... partly because they are offended that people are shown going to heaven who have not "accepted Yeshua - Jesus" in quite the same manner that they did?!?!

 

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On 3/3/2019 at 2:34 PM, Queolby said:

You should read about Brigham Youngs dear death experience, if you haven't already. You can find it in Brent L Tops book: What's on the other side 

This is interesting indeed!!!!!

 

http://www.ldsliving.com/Brigham-Young-s-Near-Death-Experience-and-What-It-Taught-Him-About-the-Spirit-World/s/81924

Brigham Young's Near-Death Experience and What It Taught Him About the Spirit World

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