April 2019 Conference Predictions


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1 hour ago, carlimac said:

Yarly interviews for youth changed to every two years -  Our bishop is so seriously swamped with interviews since changes were made. He's months behind.  The recent changes added 27 youth to the number he had to interview, let alone ward deaths and adult issues he has to deal with. It's nuts!!

And while we're at it, Bishops can use a stamp with his signature rather than hand signing every single form that lands on his desk. 

A good argument for smaller wards?

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3 hours ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:
4 hours ago, carlimac said:

Yarly interviews for youth changed to every two years -  Our bishop is so seriously swamped with interviews since changes were made. He's months behind.  The recent changes added 27 youth to the number he had to interview, let alone ward deaths and adult issues he has to deal with. It's nuts!!

And while we're at it, Bishops can use a stamp with his signature rather than hand signing every single form that lands on his desk. 

 A good argument for smaller wards?

Perhaps, but not a new argument. there have always been wards with bishops this busy.

My ward growing up had probably 50 young men and a young women’s of comparable size.

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On 2/17/2019 at 5:51 PM, zil said:

Our stake was rearranged into smaller wards in order to lighten the load on the bishops.

I agree this would be nice. Our Bishop's load is heavy as he has over 50 youth to look after, not to mention the great increase in mental health problems, marital issues, finances, drugs, etc... The youth take priority...they need those interviews frequently, from him, his counselors, and their parents. I wouldn't mind seeing several callings eliminated as well as many things we do in the church should already be done in the home. We wouldn't have the need for so many if the Priesthood was exercised they way the Lord intends.

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36 minutes ago, scottyg said:

I agree this would be nice. Our Bishop's load is heavy as he has over 50 youth to look after, not to mention the great increase in mental health problems, marital issues, finances, drugs, etc... The youth take priority...they need those interviews frequently, from him, his counselors, and their parents. I wouldn't mind seeing several callings eliminated as well as many things we do in the church should already be done in the home. We wouldn't have the need for so many if the Priesthood was exercised they way the Lord intends.

Actually, one of the reasons the Elders and High Priest were recently consolidated into one quorum was to lighten the load of the Bishop, shifting, to an extent, many of the former responsibilities to the Elders Quorum, leaving the Bishop to focus more on the youth.

This was suggested in the the First Presidency announcement and subsequent talks by General Authorities. Here is a brief snippet.  

"“These adjustments will help elders quorums and Relief Societies harmonize their work,” said Elder Rasband. “They will also simplify the quorum’s coordination with the bishopric and ward council. And they allow the bishop to delegate more responsibilities to the elders quorum and Relief Society presidents so the bishop and his counselors can focus on their primary duties—particularly presiding over the young women, and the young men who bear the Aaronic Priesthood.” (see HERE)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited by wenglund
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24 minutes ago, wenglund said:

Actually, one of the reasons the Elders and High Priest were recently consolidated into one quorum was to lighten the load of the Bishop, shifting, to an extent, many of the former responsibilities to the Elders Quorum, leaving the Bishop to focus more on the youth.

This was suggested in the the First Presidency announcement and subsequent talks by General Authorities. Here is a brief snippet.  

"“These adjustments will help elders quorums and Relief Societies harmonize their work,” said Elder Rasband. “They will also simplify the quorum’s coordination with the bishopric and ward council. And they allow the bishop to delegate more responsibilities to the elders quorum and Relief Society presidents so the bishop and his counselors can focus on their primary duties—particularly presiding over the young women, and the young men who bear the Aaronic Priesthood.” (see HERE)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Very true. Many Bishops need to accept the fact that some types of spiritual counsel need to come from the EQP, as he holds keys too, as well as the Bishop's counselors. In fact, in some cases the keys held by the EQP would actually take priority over the Bishop's for the spiritual welfare of his quorum. I think this would be harder to fully implement with the general members though...unless an Apostle came out and specifically said "see EQP for a, b, c and Bishop for x, y, z". They don't do that for obvious reasons, but the change does need to be made...our poor Bishop is wearing himself out worrying about the adults, when really his focus should be on the rising generation.

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23 hours ago, Scott said:

I'm guessing that more will be announced on the new Youth Program, which is scheduled to be in place by 2020.

Hopefully to include a training module for abuse prevention and identification, safety principles for activities with children and youth, and a requirement that all leaders and teacher of youth and children be required to take the training.

21 hours ago, Anddenex said:

Bishops are presidents of the aaronic priesthood which is why they lead the Priest quorum and have assistants rather than counselors. So, for this to change there would have to be a change to doctrine.

Not really a change in doctrine, but certainly a change to the Doctrine and Covenants.

 

We had a member of the stake presidency come to our ward on Sunday and ask all of the youth and the Bishop's family to stand up.  He then said, "all of you may call the bishop whenever you like.  The rest of you should call somebody else." 

But we've been peeling back just about everything off of our bishop's plate for a while.  To the point that I'm almost single handedly managing all the financial decisions (with weekly check ins).

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20 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

Hopefully to include a training module for abuse prevention and identification, safety principles for activities with children and youth, and a requirement that all leaders and teacher of youth and children be required to take the training.

It has been interesting to me how many scouters I come across who are looking forward to no more youth protection training when the Church separates from BSA. I expect that most of this excitement is that we will no longer need to deal with the "bureaucratic red tape" aspect of YPT (2 of the 3 times I took the BSA's YPT, my electronic certificate got lost somewhere and did not find its way to the local council). If the Church decides to implement something similar -- for all youth groups (YM, YW, Primary, SS, Activity Days), I expect it will be just as much of a "bureaucratic red tape" nightmare as the BSA's system (Call me an apostate, but it does not seem to me that the Church does bureaucracy or computer programming any better than other organizations). In spite of the bureaucratic downsides, I kind of hope the Church does something along these lines.

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On 2/21/2019 at 9:36 AM, MrShorty said:

It has been interesting to me how many scouters I come across who are looking forward to no more youth protection training when the Church separates from BSA. I expect that most of this excitement is that we will no longer need to deal with the "bureaucratic red tape" aspect of YPT (2 of the 3 times I took the BSA's YPT, my electronic certificate got lost somewhere and did not find its way to the local council). If the Church decides to implement something similar -- for all youth groups (YM, YW, Primary, SS, Activity Days), I expect it will be just as much of a "bureaucratic red tape" nightmare as the BSA's system (Call me an apostate, but it does not seem to me that the Church does bureaucracy or computer programming any better than other organizations). In spite of the bureaucratic downsides, I kind of hope the Church does something along these lines.

The young men will be handled the same as the young women.

 

The Traveler

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On 2/17/2019 at 6:01 PM, Grunt said:

We don't have enough people for all the callings now, so making the ward smaller would really increase the load on the individual members.

My ward has multiple people with the same calling in order to give more people callings. For example so many’s priesthood and relief society instructor that they only teach one lesson a month. Sunday School teachers who trade off weeks a multitude of librarians and nursery workers and two couples trading weeks teaching a single primary class. Even with that there are many people, especially older members who have no callings outside of ministering. 

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On 2/17/2019 at 8:01 PM, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

I could see the Proclamation on the Family and The Living Christ becoming Official Declaration 3 and 4. Perhaps some new revelations added as section 139 and 140 as well.

Only four sections and two declarations have been added to the Doctrine and Covenants since Joseph Smith’s death and one of those was a vision of Joseph Smith. Considering that the standard works are the only official doctrine of the church, what does that say about modern revelation? Did Joseph Smith receive all the doctrines of salvation? 

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On 2/17/2019 at 8:22 PM, Fether said:

I never understood the hype behind “canonizing” things. Does a canonizes scripture have more weight and authority than a general conference talk?

Of course it does. 

Harold B. Lee said;

  • “How do we measure whether or not one’s teachings are true or false? If anyone teaches beyond what the scriptures teach, we may put it down as speculation except one man who has the right to bring forth any new doctrine—that is the one man who holds the keys—the prophet, seer, and revelator who presides in that high place. And no one else. If anyone presumes to bring forth what he claims to be new doctrine you may know that it is purely his own opinion and you label it as such regardless of his position in the Church. If it contradicts something that is in the scriptures, you may label it immediately that it is false. That is why we call the scriptures our four Standard Church Works. They are the standards by which we measure all doctrine and if anything is taught which is contrary to that which is in the scriptures, it is false. It is just that simple” (“Viewpoint of a Giant,” 6).

    “All that we teach in this Church ought to be couched in the scriptures. It ought to be found in the scriptures. We ought to choose our texts from the scriptures. If we want to measure truth, we should measure it by the four standard works, regardless of who writes it. If it is not in the standard works, we may well assume that it is speculation, man’s own personal opinion; and if it contradicts what is in the scriptures, it is not true. This is the standard by which we measure all truth” (“Using the Scriptures in Our Church Assignments,” Improvement Era, Jan. 1969, 13).

This how scripture is canonized 

  • In the Church, canon refers to the authoritative collection of sacred books of scripture, known as the standard works, formally adopted and accepted by the Church and considered binding upon members in matters of faith and doctrine.

    The process is illustrated by the action taken in the April 1976 general conference under the direction of President N. Eldon Tanner, in which two revelations were added to the Pearl of Great Price. Conducting the business of the conference, President Tanner said:

    “President Kimball has asked me to read a very important resolution for your sustaining vote.

    “‘At a meeting of the Council of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve held in the Salt Lake Temple on March 25, 1976, approval was given to add to the Pearl of Great Price the following two revelations:

    “‘First, a vision of the celestial kingdom given to Joseph Smith … ; and second, a vision given to President Joseph F. Smith … showing the visit of the Lord Jesus Christ in the spirit world. …’

    “It is proposed that we sustain and approve this action and adopt these revelations as part of the standard works of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    “All those in favor manifest it. Those opposed, if any, by the same sign” (in Conference Report, Apr. 1976, 29; or Ensign, May 1976, 19). In 1979 these two revelations were moved to the Doctrine and Covenants and became sections 137 and 138.

 
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1 hour ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

I look forward to my sons no longer having to wear para-military uniforms that I have to pay for.

Hopefully they will not someday have to wear actual military uniforms that will be paid for with blood.  When I was serving as a scout master - there were times that new scouts would show up for their first camp out without ever having even made their own bed at home.  It is my personal calculations but the stripling warriors in The Book of Mormon were just about the age of our current deacon scouts.  I am concerned because many of our young men find serving a mission at 18 rather difficult and overly discouraging.   I am concerned that many will not be prepared for what is obviously coming.

 

The Traveler

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9 hours ago, BJ64 said:

Only four sections and two declarations have been added to the Doctrine and Covenants since Joseph Smith’s death and one of those was a vision of Joseph Smith. Considering that the standard works are the only official doctrine of the church, what does that say about modern revelation? Did Joseph Smith receive all the doctrines of salvation? 

It doesn’t tell me all that much about “revelation”, really.  It does tell me that the Church leadership hasn’t seen the need to couch their revelations in Jacobean language or  to burnish them with a patina of canonical authority in order to get the bulk of the Church to accept them (at least in theory) as the word and will of the Lord.  

I suppose they might see more of a need to do so, if within the restored Gospel there were a stronger tradition of a recalcitrant membership that openly pushes back against the leadership and tries to out-lawyer and out-fox them through cunning rhetoric.  But, curiously, the fringe who get their kicks and giggles out of doing that sort of thing tend to wind up out of the Church within a decade or two anyways—and usually of their own volition.

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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9 hours ago, BJ64 said:

Only four sections and two declarations have been added to the Doctrine and Covenants since Joseph Smith’s death and one of those was a vision of Joseph Smith. Considering that the standard works are the only official doctrine of the church, what does that say about modern revelation? Did Joseph Smith receive all the doctrines of salvation

He received many of them. What is missing, in my opinion, is the critical true interpretation of them. In this regards, in my opinion, much of our doctrine regarding salvation will  be modified to allow for truth to prevail. 

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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

It doesn’t tell me all that much about “revelation”, really.  It does tell me that the Church leadership hasn’t seen the need to couch their revelations in Jacobean language or  to burnish them with a patina of canonical authority in order to get the bulk of the Church to accept them (at least in theory) as the word and will of the Lord.  

I suppose they might see more of a need to do so, if within the restored Gospel there were a stronger tradition of a recalcitrant membership that openly pushes back against the leadership and tries to out-lawyer and out-fox them through cunning rhetoric.  But, curiously, the fringe who get their kicks and giggles out of doing that sort of thing tend to wind up out of the Church within a decade or two anyways—and usually of their own volition.

IF I understand what you are saying (big emphasis on IF)

Trying to call everything willy nilly a revelation and incorporating it into the scriptures as doctrine seems like a very BAD move from my current perspective.  We'd have all sorts of revelations going against each other (and in part we already have some non-revelations that are seemingly starting to go against what is taught in the New Testament...which could bring up some interesting dialogue in regards to the idea that if something goes against Scripture...it is false) and countering each other.  As they all would be doctrine, we'd be left saying that only the most current items are doctrine...and leading eventually to a crisis that goes counter to the words of the Lord.

Keeping it ONLY pertinent to actual revelations that have been first prayed over by the Twelve and the First presidency and accepted by them and then presented to the Church and accepted by them when revelation is felt to be given on that matter seems to be a better way (as it has been thus far) than proclaiming any command, idea, policy, or other item as part of doctrine or scripture.

The Pharisees tried to make what they thought was supposed to be done (policies rather than commandments and revelation) as doctrine and though they held power, were rebuffed in doing so and as such by the Messiah when he quoted the actual Prophets of the Old Testament, the older teachings typically taking precedence in his statements over the newer canon established by the so called Church leaders of their past hundred years. 

It is very much in the Church's interest to avoid that same scenario should it ever come to be present in the Church.

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