The Heathen Nations and They That Knew No Law

[Rob Osborn]

I'm curious as to what you guys think of this verse-

54 And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them. (D&C 45:54)

Compared with-

72 Behold, these are they who died without law; (D&C 76:72)

Are these spoken of in section 45 Terrestrial heirs, Celestial heirs or a mixture? And why?

Also, I interpret "heathen Nations" as those Nations who aren't or weren't Christian Nations, perhaps even the gentile Nations.

[Just_A_Guy]

D&C 76 (received February 1832) starts out with a two-resurrection paradigm as stated in John 5 (“resurrection of the just” versus “resurrection of the unjust”) and hints, but does not explicitly state, that the Terrestrial fall into the former category.  D&C 45 (received March 1831) is rooted in the same binary paradigm.  

D&C 88 (received December 1832-January 1833) introduces a four-phase resurrection paradigm (vv 97-102).  The second phase (v 99) tracks the terminology used to describe the Terrestrial in D&C 76:73.  Thus, the nomenclature used to describe the “first” and “last” resurrections as given in D&C 76 was technically obsolete within a year of the revelation’s having been given.  But old terminologies die hard, especially when they are enshrined in scripture.

McConkie tried to reconcile all of this by defining the first phase as per D&C 88 the “morning of the first resurrection”, and (as near as I can tell) invents the phrase “afternoon of the first resurrection” to describe the second phase.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Just_A_Guy

[wenglund]

3 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

I'm curious as to what you guys think of this verse-

54 And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them. (D&C 45:54)

Compared with-

72 Behold, these are they who died without law; (D&C 76:72)

Are these spoken of in section 45 Terrestrial heirs, Celestial heirs or a mixture? And why?

As made evident in bold above, there appears to be a distinction drawn between know not the, and without  law. Those that know not the laws will have part in the first resurrection, and those without law will have part in the terrestrial resurrection. What all, exactly, this distinction entails, is unclear.to me.

I speculate that the difference is the incapacity or capacity to sin. It may also be a function of which "law" the Lord has in mind in each case.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited February 18, 2019 by wenglund

[Rob Osborn]

59 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

D&C 76 (received February 1832) starts out with a two-resurrection paradigm as stated in John 5 (“resurrection of the just” versus “resurrection of the unjust”) and hints, but does not explicitly state, that the Terrestrial fall into the former category.  D&C 45 (received March 1831) is rooted in the same binary paradigm.  

D&C 88 (received December 1832-January 1833) introduces a four-phase resurrection paradigm (vv 97-102).  The second phase (v 99) tracks the terminology used to describe the Terrestrial in D&C 76:73.  Thus, the nomenclature used to describe the “first” and “last” resurrections as given in D&C 76 was technically obsolete within a year of the revelation’s having been given.  But old terminologies die hard, especially when they are enshrined in scripture.

McConkie tried to reconcile all of this by defining the first phase as per D&C 88 the “morning of the first resurrection”, and (as near as I can tell) invents the phrase “afternoon of the first resurrection” to describe the second phase.

Yeah, it's pretty confusing. I never liked the terminology of the "afternoon of the first resurrection". It's not like they are going to be resurrected years, decades or even centuries later but rather basically at the same time and spend the thousand years on the earth with Christ.

[Rob Osborn]

33 minutes ago, wenglund said:

As made evident in bold above, there appears to be a distinction drawn between know no and without  the law. Those that know no laws will have part in the first resurrection, and those without law will have part in the terrestrial resurrection. What, exactly, this distinction entails, is unclear.to me.

I speculate that the difference is the incapacity or capacity to sin. It may also be a function of which "law" the Lord has in mind in each case.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I personally don't see a distinction between those who knew no law and those who died without law. They both have no law and knew no law in mortality.

[wenglund]

1 hour ago, Rob Osborn said:

I personally don't see a distinction between those who knew no law and those who died without law.

That is okay. Not everyone is in a position as yet to grasp the distinction that Christ made--not just in phrasing, but also in terms of the rendering of differing resurrected bodies and glories.

Quote

They both have no law and knew no law in mortality.

Thus is a baseless conclusion you have jumped to. And, given what I suggest above, it appears to be an errant conclusion. Is it any wonder you don't see the distinction?

It may help your capacity for understanding to humbly let God' and His Word mold your view, rather than pridefully the other way around. In other words, "lean not unto thine own understanding..."

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited February 18, 2019 by wenglund

[Traveler]

3 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

I'm curious as to what you guys think of this verse-

54 And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them. (D&C 45:54)

Compared with-

72 Behold, these are they who died without law; (D&C 76:72)

Are these spoken of in section 45 Terrestrial heirs, Celestial heirs or a mixture? And why?

Also, I interpret "heathen Nations" as those Nations who aren't or weren't Christian Nations, perhaps even the gentile Nations.

A careful reading of scripture would indicate that the citizens of the kingdom of G-d have always been divided into three classes or glories.  This was in the pre-existence, in mortality and in the resurrection.  There are terms that identify these divisions.  It is also interesting to note that in the Near Eastern Kingdoms - such as Egypt that developed their society according to divine understanding that the citizens of such kingdoms were likewise divided.  This ancient method of society is somewhat in conflict with our modern understanding where all are equal under the same Law.

In mortality we see (perhaps more clearly) the divisions symbolized in scripture in the sons of Noah:

First is  Shem who represents the children of the birthright or covenant - other similar terms are "Israel", Zion, the Saints of God and the First Born.

Second is Japheth who represents what is identified as the Gentile nations - In essence those defined as those that are upright but without the higher covenant or law.

Third is Shem who represents what are identified the "Heathen Nations" also called Infidels.  In essence those that oppose, reject or rebel against the law.

Hope this helps to clear up some of your confusion.

 

The Traveler

[Rob Osborn]

17 minutes ago, wenglund said:

That is okay. Not everyone is in a position as yet to grasp the distinction that Christ made--not just in phrasing, but also in terms of the rendering of differing resurrected bodies and glories.

Thus is a baseless conclusion you have jumped to. And, given what I suggest above, it appears to be an errant conclusion. Is it any wonder you don't see the distinction?

It may help your capacity for understanding to humbly let God' and His Word mold your view, rather than pridefully the other way around. In other words, "lean not unto thine own understanding..."

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Here are the two phrases-

"they that knew no law"

"they who died without law"

Logically, if one lived in mortality and knew no law, they also thus die without the law. One cannot be judged by the law if they knew no law. The only reason I perhaps see you trying to force a distinction here is because logically there should be a separation between the heathen Nations who just had no idea about Christ and thus perhaps Celestial candidates and those who were perhaps wicked yet died without the law, who also thus had no idea about Christ, but are not Celestial candidates.

But does the actual text warrant such conclusion?

[Rob Osborn]

4 minutes ago, Traveler said:

A careful reading of scripture would indicate that the citizens of the kingdom of G-d have always been divided into three classes or glories.  This was in the pre-existence, in mortality and in the resurrection.  There are terms that identify these divisions.  It is also interesting to note that in the Near Eastern Kingdoms - such as Egypt that developed their society according to divine understanding that the citizens of such kingdoms were likewise divided.  This ancient method of society is somewhat in conflict with our modern understanding where all are equal under the same Law.

In mortality we see (perhaps more clearly) the divisions symbolized in scripture in the sons of Noah:

First is  Shem who represents the children of the birthright or covenant - other similar terms are "Israel", Zion, the Saints of God and the First Born.

Second is Japheth who represents what is identified as the Gentile nations - In essence those defined as those that are upright but without the higher covenant or law.

Third is Shem who represents what are identified the "Heathen Nations" also called Infidels.  In essence those that oppose, reject or rebel against the law.

Hope this helps to clear up some of your confusion.

 

The Traveler

But does the phrase "heathen Nations" refer to a judged separate group of "rebels" or to an entire population of people's who just do not know Christ? I would beg that "heathen Nations" refers to the masses of Nations throughout time who knew not God and thus children born into this predicament were born into that classification as the "heathen".

[wenglund]

31 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Logically, if one lived in mortality and knew no law, they also thus die without the law.

This isn't necessarily logical. It is may be a fallacy (circular reasoning) because it presupposes the very thing it wishes to prove--i.e. that the phrase "knew not" also means "without."

To analogously demonstrate how this is not necessarily the case, the phrase "knew not women" does not mean the same thing as "without women."  The former is in reference to the absence of sexual relations with women, whereas the other is the absence of women altogether.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Jersey Boy]

3 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

I'm curious as to what you guys think of this verse-

54 And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them. (D&C 45:54)

Compared with-

72 Behold, these are they who died without law; (D&C 76:72)

Are these spoken of in section 45 Terrestrial heirs, Celestial heirs or a mixture? And why?

Also, I interpret "heathen Nations" as those Nations who aren't or weren't Christian Nations, perhaps even the gentile Nations.

I could clear things up right away, but will not do so in this post for the sake of maintaining an interesting and unfolding conversation.

The first thing to notice is the punctuation in verses 72, 73 and 74. By observing that verses 72 and 73 end in semicolons, and that the continuous stream of thought that begins in verse 72 doesn’t end until the period at the end of verse 74, and by further observing that the word ‘also’ in verse 73 indicates that verses 72 and 73 form two separate and independent introductory statements, it then the becomes clear that the independent introductory statements found in verses 72 and 73 come to final resolution in verse 74. This means that for the sake of clarifying the meaning of theses three verses we can temporarily put aside the independent introductory statement in verse 73 and allow verses 72 and 74 to form one complete thought. And here it is...

72 Behold, these are they who died without law;

74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it. (D&C 76)

 

[Rob Osborn]

12 minutes ago, wenglund said:

This isn't necessarily logical. It is may be a fallacy (circular reasoning) because it presupposes the very thing it wishes to prove--i.e. that the phrase "knew not" also means "without."

To analogously demonstrate how this is not necessarily the case, the phrase "knew not women" does not mean the same thing as "without women."  The former is in reference to the absence of sexual relations with women, whereas the other is the absence of women altogether.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Humm, so, are you suggesting then it's possible to know not the law yet die within it, and vice versa- know the law yet die without it?

[Rob Osborn]

33 minutes ago, Jersey Boy said:

I could clear things up right away, but will not do so in this post for the sake of maintaining an interesting and unfolding conversation.

The first thing to notice is the punctuation in verses 72, 73 and 74. By observing that verses 72 and 73 end in semicolons, and that the continuous stream of thought that begins in verse 72 doesn’t end until the period at the end of verse 74, and by further observing that the word ‘also’ in verse 73 indicates that verses 72 and 73 form two separate and independent introductory statements, it then the becomes clear that the independent introductory statements found in verses 72 and 73 come to final resolution in verse 74. This means that for the sake of clarifying the meaning of theses three verses we can temporarily put aside the independent introductory statement in verse 73 and allow verses 72 and 74 to form one complete thought. And here it is...

72 Behold, these are they who died without law;

74 Who received not the testimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it. (D&C 76)

 

Okay, so do you see those who are spoken of as those who died without law (vs. 72) as a separate group as those who were kept in Spirit prison (vs. 73)? If so, are they both designated as those who both received the gospel after death (vs. 74)?

[wenglund]

I came across the following while researching a question on another thread.

Below is a statements of Joseph Smith, taken from the Evening and Morning Star, as quoted in the Scriptural Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. It follows another statement (cited under the subsection, Comment on Revision of the Scriptures), that is also cited in the Heading of D&C 76, which has been discussed already on this board..

Under the subsection on, "The Prophet's View on the Vision" (i.e. the vision entailed in D&C 76), Joseph Smith states:

"Nothing could be more pleasing to the Saints upon the order of the Kingdom of the Lord, than the light which burst upon the world through the foregoing vision. Every law, every commandment, every promise, every truth, and every point touching the destiny of man, from Genesis to Revelation, where the purity of the Scriptures remains unsullied by the folly of men, go to show the perfection of the theory (of different degrees of glory in the future life) and witness the fact that the document is a transcript from the records of the eternal world. The sublimity of the ideas; the purity of the language; the scope for action; the continued duration for completion, in order that the heirs of salvation may confess the Lord and bow the knee; the rewards for faithfulness, and the punishments for sins, are so much beyond the narrow-mindedness of men, that every man is constrained to exclaim: “It came from God.” (Feb., 1832.) DHC 1:252-253.(bold mine)

In the next issue of the Evening and Morning Star, we find this statement from Joseph Smith, under the heading, Every Man an Agent for Himself:

"...But except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. This eternal truth settles the question of all men’s religion. A man may be saved, after the judgment, in the terrestrial kingdom, or in the telestial kingdom, but he can never see the celestial kingdom of God, without being born of the water and the Spirit. He may receive a glory like unto the moon, [i.e., of which the light of the moon is typical], or a star, [i.e., of which the light of the stars is typical], but he can never come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels; to the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, unless he becomes as a little child, and is taught by the Spirit of God." (bold mine)

Several things are made clear by the Prophet Joseph, himself.. 

• People are saved  in all three kingdoms of heaven
• While there may be telestial and terrestrial and celestial kingdoms on earth, they are but symbolic of, or a type and shadow of, the real telestial and terrestrial and celestial kingdoms in heaven.
• the real three kingdoms of heaven are the ones that exist "after the judgement", and are the "destiny of man," the "future life," the "completion."

 All this, of course, will come as no surprise, and will rightly be believed, along with a number of Church leaders, by those who correctly understand that D&C 76, and the tree kingdoms mentioned therein,  is in reference to the resurrection.

I say this with full anticipation that I am wasting my breath on certain parties, but there it is.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited February 19, 2019 by wenglund

[wenglund]

35 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Humm, so, are you suggesting then it's possible to know not the law yet die within it, and vice versa- know the law yet die without it?

What I am suggesting is that "know not the" evidently means something different than "without" in the specified passages in question  And, depending upon the different meanings, it may or may not allow for a number of possible permutations.However, we would have to be authoritatively informed what each means in order to make that determination. Until we are informed, the best we can logically say is that they mean different things.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Rob Osborn]

19 minutes ago, wenglund said:

What I am suggesting is that "know not the" evidently means something different than "without" in the specified passages in question  And, depending upon the different meanings, it may or may not allow for a number of possible permutations.However, we would have to be authoritatively informed what each means in order to make that determination. Until we are informed, the best we can logically say is that they mean different things.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Humm, I personally think that may be thinking too much into it. I really don't see there being a difference between those who die without law and those who die not knowing the law. They both are without law. The connotation here is that lived without the knowledge of the gospel, or, the justice of the law didn't apply to them.

[Rob Osborn]

46 minutes ago, wenglund said:

I came across the following while researching a question on another thread.

Below is a statements of Joseph Smith, taken from the Evening and Morning Star, as quoted in the Scriptural Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. It follows another statement (cited under the subsection, Comment on Revision of the Scriptures), that is also cited in the Heading of D&C 76, which has been discussed already on this board..

Under the subsection on, "The Prophet's View on the Vision" (i.e. the vision entailed in D&C 76), Joseph Smith states:

"Nothing could be more pleasing to the Saints upon the order of the Kingdom of the Lord, than the light which burst upon the world through the foregoing vision. Every law, every commandment, every promise, every truth, and every point touching the destiny of man, from Genesis to Revelation, where the purity of the Scriptures remains unsullied by the folly of men, go to show the perfection of the theory (of different degrees of glory in the future life) and witness the fact that the document is a transcript from the records of the eternal world. The sublimity of the ideas; the purity of the language; the scope for action; the continued duration for completio; the continued duration for completionn, in order that the heirs of salvation may confess the Lord and bow the knee; the rewards for faithfulness, and the punishments for sins, are so much beyond the narrow-mindedness of men, that every man is constrained to exclaim: “It came from God.” (Feb., 1832.) DHC 1:252-253.(bold mine)

In the next issue of the Evening and Morning Star, we find this statement from Joseph Smith, under the heading, Every Man an Agent for Himself:

"...But except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. This eternal truth settles the question of all men’s religion. A man may be saved, after the judgment, in the terrestrial kingdom, or in the telestial kingdom, but he can never see the celestial kingdom of God, without being born of the water and the Spirit. He may receive a glory like unto the moon, [i.e., of which the light of the moon is typical], or a star, [i.e., of which the light of the stars is typical], but he can never come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels; to the general assembly and Church of the Firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, unless he becomes as a little child, and is taught by the Spirit of God." (bold mine)

Several things are made clear by the Prophet Joseph, himself.. 

• People are saved  in all three kingdoms of heaven
• While there may be telestial and terrestrial and celestial kingdoms on earth, they are but symbolic of, or a type and shadow of, the real telestial and terrestrial and celestial kingdoms in heaven.
• the real three kingdoms of heaven are the ones that exist "after the judgement", and are the "destiny of man," the "future life," the "completion."

 All this, of course, will come as no surprise, and will rightly be believed, along with a number of Church leaders, by those who correctly understand that D&C 76, and the tree kingdoms mentioned therein,  is in reference to the resurrection.

I say this with full anticipation that I am wasting my breath on certain parties, but there it is.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Much to dissect and discuss but kind of off topic. Nevertheless, late in Joseph's life his view regarding salvation from hell changed from not needing baptism to definitely needing it.

I've brought it up before, and it's worth noting, that the line "the continued duration for completionn, in order that the heirs of salvation..." Applies to those who died without law and the heathen Nations. 

In the end it's what "we become" rather than "where we have been". So, unless we want to just chalk up all the "heathen Nations" and "they who died without law" as becoming nothing more than continued deniers and heathens the above quote doesn't make much sense in my opinion. But, does this then presuppose that the heathen Nations we're destined for only Terrestrial glory only?

[wenglund]

14 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Humm, I personally think that may be thinking too much into it. I really don't see there being a difference between those who die without law and those who die not knowing the law. They both are without law. The connotation here is that lived without the knowledge of the gospel, or, the justice of the law didn't apply to them.

Again, that is okay. Not everyone is in a position to grasp the distinction that the Lord is making--not just in terms of phrasing, but also in terms of eternal outcome.

Maybe someday?--though I doubt it given your seemingly intractable view.

Until then, to each their own

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

24 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Much to dissect and discuss but kind of off topic. Nevertheless, late in Joseph's life his view regarding salvation from hell changed from not needing baptism to definitely needing it.

I've brought it up before, and it's worth noting, that the line "the continued duration for completionn, in order that the heirs of salvation..." Applies to those who died without law and the heathen Nations. 

In the end it's what "we become" rather than "where we have been". So, unless we want to just chalk up all the "heathen Nations" and "they who died without law" as becoming nothing more than continued deniers and heathens the above quote doesn't make much sense in my opinion. But, does this then presuppose that the heathen Nations we're destined for only Terrestrial glory only?

There are at least two key points that you seem to be overlooking, likely because they are clearly at odds with your current point of view regarding salvation and the three kingdoms.

But, as you said, this may be straying a bit off topic, not that it would matter in helping you to see the greater light anyway. So, I will leave it at that.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Rob Osborn]

7 minutes ago, wenglund said:

There are at least two key points that you seem to be overlooking, likely because they are clearly at odds with your current point of view regarding salvation and the three kingdoms.

But, as you said, this may be straying a bit off topic, not that it would matter in helping you to see the greater light anyway. So, I will leave it at that.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

What are those two key points?

[Anddenex]

6 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

I'm curious as to what you guys think of this verse-

54 And then shall the heathen nations be redeemed, and they that knew no law shall have part in the first resurrection; and it shall be tolerable for them. (D&C 45:54)

Verse 54 correlates with the following verse in the Book of Mormon, "And these are those who have part in the first resurrection; and these are they that have died before Christ came, in their ignorance, not having asalvation declared unto them. And thus the Lord bringeth about the restoration of these; and they have a part in the first resurrection, or have eternal life, being redeemed by the Lord."

6 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

Compared with-

72 Behold, these are they who died without law; (D&C 76:72)

Are these spoken of in section 45 Terrestrial heirs, Celestial heirs or a mixture? And why?

Also, I interpret "heathen Nations" as those Nations who aren't or weren't Christian Nations, perhaps even the gentile Nations.

Types of individuals we can ascertain from scripture:

1) Those who knew law

2) Those who knew law and rejected the law

3) Those who knew law and are covenant people

4) Those who knew law, are covenant people, and rejected the law and their covenant

5) Those who died without law, who were ignorant of the law

6) Those who died without law, because they rejected the law (#2)

No one will be saved, even those who died in ignorance (knew no law), if they do not choose Christ.  They still have to be people who would have accepted the law, in this life, if they had known the law in order to receive eternal life.

So these individuals can either be Terrestrial or Celestial, if they would have accepted the gospel in this life if they had known the law.

Terrestrial are = Ignorant but would not have accepted the gospel

Celestial are = those who were ignorant and would have accepted the law if it had been declared unto them.

[Rob Osborn]

12 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Verse 54 correlates with the following verse in the Book of Mormon, "And these are those who have part in the first resurrection; and these are they that have died before Christ came, in their ignorance, not having asalvation declared unto them. And thus the Lord bringeth about the restoration of these; and they have a part in the first resurrection, or have eternal life, being redeemed by the Lord."

Types of individuals we can ascertain from scripture:

1) Those who knew law

2) Those who knew law and rejected the law

3) Those who knew law and are covenant people

4) Those who knew law, are covenant people, and rejected the law and their covenant

5) Those who died without law, who were ignorant of the law

6) Those who died without law, because they rejected the law (#2)

No one will be saved, even those who died in ignorance (knew no law), if they do not choose Christ.  They still have to be people who would have accepted the law, in this life, if they had known the law in order to receive eternal life.

So these individuals can either be Terrestrial or Celestial, if they would have accepted the gospel in this life if they had known the law.

Terrestrial are = Ignorant but would not have accepted the gospel

Celestial are = those who were ignorant and would have accepted the law if it had been declared unto them.

Humm, not sure I agree with #6. Logic doesn't add up for me personally. If one rejects the law they would die within the law because it is available to them.

[Anddenex]

3 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Humm, not sure I agree with #6. Logic doesn't add up for me personally. If one rejects the law they would die within the law because it is available to them.

That is OK. That depends on your definition of "without law." I am aware of the laws in Switzerland, but I am without their law. 

[Rob Osborn]

5 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

That is OK. That depends on your definition of "without law." I am aware of the laws in Switzerland, but I am without their law. 

How do you thus reconcile-

25 Wherefore, he has given a law; and where there is no law given there is no punishment; and where there is no punishment there is no condemnation; and where there is no condemnation the mercies of the Holy One of Israel have claim upon them, because of the atonement; for they are delivered by the power of him.
            26 For the atonement satisfieth the demands of his justice upon all those who have not the law given to them, that they are delivered from that awful monster, death and hell, and the devil, and the lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment; and they are restored to that God who gave them breath, which is the Holy One of Israel. (2 Nephi 9:24-25)

22 For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing. (Moroni 8:22)

[Anddenex]

3 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

How do you thus reconcile-

25 Wherefore, he has given a law; and where there is no law given there is no punishment; and where there is no punishment there is no condemnation; and where there is no condemnation the mercies of the Holy One of Israel have claim upon them, because of the atonement; for they are delivered by the power of him.
            26 For the atonement satisfieth the demands of his justice upon all those who have not the law given to them, that they are delivered from that awful monster, death and hell, and the devil, and the lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment; and they are restored to that God who gave them breath, which is the Holy One of Israel. (2 Nephi 9:24-25)

22 For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing. (Moroni 8:22)

Nothing to reconcile.