Did JS ever quote the Book of Mormon?


Fether
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I feel like I’ve asked this before so forgive me if I have.

I can’t seem to think of any early church leaders speaking about referencing the Book of Mormon beyond what we see in the introduction to the Book of Mormon.

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2 hours ago, Fether said:

I feel like I’ve asked this before so forgive me if I have.

I can’t seem to think of any early church leaders speaking about referencing the Book of Mormon beyond what we see in the introduction to the Book of Mormon.

Just off the top of my head, I believe that Joseph Smith indicated that the restoration of the Aaronic  priesthood came in response to prayers prompted by translating certain passages of the Book of Mormon.

By way of confirming my recollection, I found this:

“We still continued the work of translation, when, in the ensuing month (May, 1829), we on a certain day went into the woods to pray and inquire of the Lord respecting baptism for the remission of sins, that we found mentioned in the translation of the plates." (citred HERE)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Two 1834-37 Pg.85-86
Many may say that this scripture is fulfilled, but let them mark carefully what the prophet says: "If any are driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven," (Which must mean the breadth of the earth).  Now this promise is good to any, if there should be such, that are driven out, even in the last days, therefore, the children of the fathers have claim unto this day.  And if these curses are to be laid over on the heads of their enemies, wo be unto the Gentiles.  (See Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi, Chap. 16, current edition).  "Wo unto the unbelieving of the Gentiles, saith the Father."  And again (see Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi 20:22, current edition, which says), "Behold this people will I establish in this land, unto the fulfilling of the covenant which I made with your father Jacob, and it shall be a New Jerusalem."  Now we learn from the Book of Mormon the very identical continent and sport of land upon which the New Jerusalem is to stand, and it must be caught up according to the vision of John upon the isle of Patmos.

Now many will feel disposed to say, that this New Jerusalem spoken of, is the Jerusalem that was built by the Jews on the eastern continent.  But you will see, from Revelation 21:2, there was a New Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven, adorned as a bride for her husband; that after this, the Revelator was caught away in the Spirit, to a great and high mountain, and saw the great and holy city descending out of heaven from God.  Now there are two cites spoken of here.  As everything cannot be had in so narrow a compass as a letter, I shall say with brevity, that there is a New Jerusalem to be established on this continent, and also Jerusalem shall be rebuilt on the eastern continent (see Book of Mormon, Ether 13:1-12).  "Behold, Ether saw the days of Christ, and he spake also concerning the house of Israel, and the Jerusalem from whence Lehi should come; after it should be destroyed, it should be built up again, a holy city unto the Lord, wherefore it could not be a New Jerusalem, for it had been in a time of old."  This may suffice, upon the subject of gathering, until my next.

 

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six 1843-44 Pg.299
Meaning of Word Mormon

To the Editor of the Times & Seasons:
Sir: -- Through the medium of your paper, I wish to correct an error among men that profess to be learned, liberal and wise; and I do it the more cheerfully, because I hope sober-thinking and sound-reasoning people will sooner listen to the voice of truth, than be led astray by the vain pretensions of the self-wise.  The error I speak of, is the definition of the word "Mormon."  I has been stated that this word was derived from the Greek word "mormo."  This is not the case.  There was no Greek of Latin upon the plates from which I, through the grace of God, translated the Book of Mormon.  Let the language of that book speak for itself.  On the 523rd page, of the fourth edition, it reads: "And now behold we have written this record according to our knowledge in the characters, which are called among us the "Reformed Egyptian," being handed down and altered by us, according to our manner of speech; and if our plates had been sufficiently large, we should have written in Hebrew: but the Hebrew hath been altered by us, also; and if we could have written in Hebrew, behold ye would have had no imperfection in our record, but the Lord knoweth the things which we have written, and also, that none other people knoweth our language; therefore he hath prepared means for the interpretation thereof."

As far as I can tell from TPJS, he (and I assume his culture) wasn't obsessed with exact, cited quotes from scripture.  There are lots of footnotes that link things in TPJS to verses from the Book of Mormon - implying that's where he got the idea, but he himself doesn't cite the Book of Mormon or quote it directly.  (Peruse through the Citation Index, and you'll find lots of such footnotes.)

No idea whether the Joseph Smith Papers project has a useful way to search for such things - I only have TPJS and Lectures on Faith.

PS: He mentions the Book of Mormon in some way or other many more times than above, but above were the only direct quotes I found.

Edited by zil
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13 minutes ago, zil said:

As far as I can tell from TPJS, he (and I assume his culture) wasn't obsessed with exact, cited quotes from scripture.  There are lots of footnotes that link things in TPJS to verses from the Book of Mormon - implying that's where he got the idea, but he himself doesn't cite the Book of Mormon or quote it directly.  (Peruse through the Citation Index, and you'll find lots of such footnotes.)

No idea whether the Joseph Smith Papers project has a useful way to search for such things - I only have TPJS and Lectures on Faith.

PS: He mentions the Book of Mormon in some way or other many more times than above, but above were the only direct quotes I found.

I just find it interesting that you can’t go 5 minutes watching GC without hearing a direct Book of Mormon reference, but you are pressed to find even a few direct references from the church leaders in the 1800s

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3 minutes ago, Fether said:

I just find it interesting that you can’t go 5 minutes watching GC without hearing a direct Book of Mormon reference, but you are pressed to find even a few direct references from the church leaders in the 1800s

I could only guess, but...

1. The Book of Mormon, D&C, and PofGP were all comparatively new to them - they were probably far more comfortable citing the Bible.  (And I'm not sure how long it was before it became common for everyone to have these volumes and get familiar with them.)

2. Perhaps they were oft trying to show investigators and new members the truth from the Bible, because that's what their audience was also familiar with / accepting of.

I have no idea though.  Others who have studied Church history could give a better answer than I can.

Edited by zil
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2 hours ago, Fether said:

I feel like I’ve asked this before so forgive me if I have.

I can’t seem to think of any early church leaders speaking about referencing the Book of Mormon beyond what we see in the introduction to the Book of Mormon.

Also, "The Scriptural Teaching of the Prophet Joseph Smith" may be of help.  It not only gives scriptural substantiation (including from the Book of Mormon)  for the things he said, but also quotations from the scriptures.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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17 minutes ago, wenglund said:

Also, "The Scriptural Teaching of the Prophet Joseph Smith" may be of help.  It not only gives scriptural substantiation (including from the Book of Mormon)  for the things he said, but also quotations from the scriptures.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

I did some basic and quick word searching on the document and looked up a bunch of names. There are no references to Alma (beyond parenthetical references to the scripture added after the fact), Ammon, Nephi or Zarahemla. There are 300+ references to Lehi. The ones I saw all references his exodus from Jerusalem.

There were also hundreds of references of Biblical  names

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I posted this last month.  It is an except from one of Joseph Smith's lengthy conference addresses.  I had to personally list the scriptures that he quoted because He never quoted book and verse.  And interestingly in this address he indicated that he would only use material from the bible...

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1 hour ago, Fether said:

I did some basic and quick word searching on the document and looked up a bunch of names. There are no references to Alma (beyond parenthetical references to the scripture added after the fact), Ammon, Nephi or Zarahemla. There are 300+ references to Lehi. The ones I saw all references his exodus from Jerusalem.

There were also hundreds of references of Biblical  names

As best I could tell, It is difficult to determine if the "parenthetical references" are merely scriptural substantiations/annotations provided by Richard C. Galbraith,  or an unattributed quote, or the subconscious source of specific notion Joseph is conveying.

Think of it like were I to say that we all must be born again. Were someone to scripturally annotate this statement, they may cite John 3: However, I may also be quoting John 3 without attribution.  whether I  consciously realizing it--though it is likely the case, and thus not indicate that it is the source for my statement.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

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5 minutes ago, wenglund said:

As best I could tell, It is difficult to determine if the "parenthetical references" are merely scriptural substantiations/annotations provided by Richard C. Galbraith,  or an unattributed quote, or the subconscious source of specific notion Joseph is conveying.

Think of it like were I to say that we all must be born again. Were someone to scripturally annotate this statement, they may cite John 3: However, I may also be quoting John 3 without attribution.  whether I  consciously realizing it--though it is likely the case, and thus not indicate that it is the source for my statement.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

There seems (at least to me) to be a preference to the Bible over the Book of Mormon. It’s not a matter of referencing without giving homage to the source, it’s the fact that biblical names are used everywhere and yet only one Book of Mormon name was used (as far as I saw).

I don’t think it’s a problem, but it is just super interesting. The early leaders talk about immense and immediate conversions to the Book... but no one seems to be talking about it.

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1 minute ago, Fether said:

There seems (at least to me) to be a preference to the Bible over the Book of Mormon. It’s not a matter of referencing without giving homage to the source, it’s the fact that biblical names are used everywhere and yet only one Book of Mormon name was used (as far as I saw).

I don’t think it’s a problem, but it is just super interesting. The early leaders talk about immense and immediate conversions to the Book... but no one seems to be talking about it.

 

Your perception may be correct. I even agree.

And, by way of explanation, and not that I am anywhere close to Joseph Smith, but the vast majority of my religious comments are Bible-based, not because I don't find considerable value in the Book of Mormon, but rather because I am often talking with people who are Bible believers either outside the Church, transitioning into the Church, or not long in the Church, and this because it is a common and familiar canon between us.

From my extensive reading of Joseph Smith, this seems to be the case for him as well. Even when he is giving Conference talks or writing in Church publications, he is aware that his message will carry beyond the Church, and so it would make sense to tailor his message for that broader audience.

Besides, even though Joseph translated the Book of Mormon, the content may not have been all that familiar to him for some time.thereafter. I know it has taken me a number of readings to get the names and stories to stick in my mind.

Then, too, much of his time following the translation was engaged in receiving new revelation and translating the Bible. We all tend to quote more that upon which our thoughts are fixed at the time.

Thanks, -Wade Englund- 

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