Captain Marvel and the press


The Folk Prophet
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21 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Indeed..  That is what I meant by "arranging the spamming of"  (And yes I totally acknowledge it goes both ways)

Any site or group as a demographic (Rotten Tomatoes does, Third Hour does etc) Thus is polls or review done will represent that demographic.  The owners of the site will push and maybe even cater to a certain demographic.  Those polls or reviews will represent that demographic.  The personal value one gets from the poll or review will be directly related to how closely you match the demographic of the site in question.

 

Yes.  In the case of Rotten Tomatoes... the demographics are moviegoers.  Moviegoers span all kinds of people from one end of the spectrum to another in all kinds of intersectionality.  So, the main theme is - Do I like the movie/trailer or not.  Professional critics ratings have their purposes - some professionally critique independently, others critique to keep press passes, and others critique to promote socio-political agenda.  Audience ratings is more indicative of like/dislike of a movie - but they're all non-professional reviews based on individual biases... like Asians would rate The Meg very high (kaijus are woven into asian culture) whereas Americans probably wouldn't (it wasn't that good of a movie).  But then RT audience raters are mostly American (high number of people with internet).  So, if an RT audience score is very high - 80%+, then that movie was liked across all those demographics, especially in the US, while if RT audience score is very low - 20%-, then that movie was not liked across all those demographics, especially in the US.

Captain Marvel is not out yet, so the 26% audience rating is not a Review of the movie but a Review of the trailers and the marketing behind the movie.  That's why the rule of thumb in marketing is always... stay out of religion and politics (unless that's what you're selling)... those are very polarizing themes and could cut your target audience completely in half - if not smaller.  DCCU was very smart to avoid socio-political marketing even with their Wonder Woman movie.  Gal Gadot was reviewed low as well before the movie came out because her physique doesn't embody an Amazonian princess and Batman vs Superman sucked (her first appearance).  But DCCU avoided socio-politics in Wonder Woman marketing so people remain interested in giving it a chance.  This time with Brie Larson turning off viewers, it's just become a dumpster fire.  But Captain Marvel is lucky to be the middle-movie between Infinity War (very highly rated) and Endgame (also highly anticipated)... so it won't lose money like Solo did.

Edited by anatess2
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8 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

It's the press that's the real problem.

Do you remember what happened when the press repeatably ignored part of its market to cater to its own interests??  Fox news came in a made bank off the part they ignored by offering an different take.  Think Rotten Tomatoes is biased and fraudulently misrepresenting to promote and agenda?  If you are right on how bad it is build your own site  and you will make a buttload of money and can laugh all the way to the bank.

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2 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Do you remember what happened when the press repeatably ignored part of its market to cater to its own interests??  Fox news came in a made bank off the part they ignored by offering an different take.  Think Rotten Tomatoes is biased and fraudulently misrepresenting to promote and agenda?  If you are right on how bad it is build your own site  and you will make a buttload of money and can laugh all the way to the bank.

If only getting rich was my primary interest.

Keep in mind here...my primary point was that anyone who has a problem with SJW politics (as expressed in this case by a vote on RT, but it could be expressed anywhere...this is just the latest example) is labeled a "troll".

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3 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

Do you remember what happened when the press repeatably ignored part of its market to cater to its own interests??  Fox news came in a made bank off the part they ignored by offering an different take.  Think Rotten Tomatoes is biased and fraudulently misrepresenting to promote and agenda?  If you are right on how bad it is build your own site  and you will make a buttload of money and can laugh all the way to the bank.

Eehhh... not really.

Rotten Tomatoes is owned by Comcast.  It doesn't make money out of the website.  It makes money out of selling movies.  So you're probably wondering... how does Disney/Marvel get Comcast to side with them?  Easy... Comcast/Disney vs Netflix.

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2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Well yes... for a different reason.

I was more referring to it not tanking in the box office.

 

Yes. But that's my point. There's a reason that they put the movie (which coincidentally happens to be a huge leftist message, a new character, their first female lead, etc.) between the two huge movies that are the culmination of a decade of successes, and that it comes out less than a month-and-a-half prior to the release of Endgame, and that it has been set up to be integral to the overall story.

This isn't 'luck' by any stretch of the imagination.

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1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Yes. But that's my point. There's a reason that they put the movie (which coincidentally happens to be a huge leftist message, a new character, their first female lead, etc.) between the two huge movies that are the culmination of a decade of successes, and that it comes out less than a month-and-a-half prior to the release of Endgame, and that it has been set up to be integral to the overall story.

This isn't 'luck' by any stretch of the imagination.

Hmm... that's an interesting take.

Let me run through it in my head... so this is not a Brie Larson dumpster fire... it goes up higher - Kevin Feige or Bob Iger (as he also got the same problem with Kathleen Kennedy) really planned on the SJW propaganda... probably waited until Stan Lee was out of the picture... and hired known SJW Brie Larson knowing it's not going to make money but they don't care as long as the agenda is pushed forward... and made the very calculated move of putting it smack dab in between Infinity War and Endgame to force fans to eat the crap....

Sinister, man!  And completely plausible!

So, I swore off the rest of Avengers, including Captain Marvel as payback for Infinity War trashing Ragnarok and killing Loki and Heimdall... now that's fortunate!  Actually... I reduced my boycott to opening weekend.  What can I say.  I'm weak.

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

DCCU was very smart to avoid socio-political marketing even with their Wonder Woman movie.  Gal Gadot was reviewed low as well before the movie came out because her physique doesn't embody an Amazonian princess and Batman vs Superman sucked (her first appearance).  But DCCU avoided socio-politics in Wonder Woman marketing so people remain interested in giving it a chance.

This is the *one* time when DC got it right where Marvel fumbled.  They just let Wonder Woman be awesome.  She was one of the best parts of Batman v Superman and her small appearance in that movie generated more interest in her movie than all of the trailers, billboards and hypetrains combined.  She appeared in that movie and was awesome every second she was there.  She didn't play politics, she didn't represent intersectionality and she didn't have to be the one to kill Doomsday.  She proved she was just like the guys... by being just like the guys.  

Then, the actress stayed out of political pandering.  It  probably helped that she wasn't American, meaning she didn't have to be tied to American points of view either way.  She did plenty of interviews, yes, and invariably the discussion came around to her being a role model for girls, etc... But it wasn't about bashing men, other races, etc.  It was just saying "hey, we can prove that a female superhero CAN be the feature of a good superhero movie."  All it took was a good story, good writing, good acting and good production value... just like every other movie.  

And it WAS good.  Was it the best superhero movie of all time?  No.  Was it way better than most?  Yes.  It certainly proved its point.  A good superhero movie doesn't have to be about a male hero.  (Which most of us knew already.  Previous examples, like Catwoman, Elektra and Supergirl sucked because they were poorly made, not because of the sex of the protagonist.)  

TLDR;

Wonder Woman was not steeped in all this controversy because it didn't go out and directly attack the majority of its own audience.  Wonder Woman was a movie meant for everybody.  Captain Marvel is not, and the people involved in its production, the star in particular, have made that clear.

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3 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Two now.  With Aquaman.  Ultra Alpha-male which is usually easily targeted.  But cast and crew stayed out of socio-politics.  Great movie.  Kaching!

I haven't seen it yet but I do plan to...

...after I finally get around to watching Justice League.

I love me some Jason Momoa.  He rocks.  Except when he's playing Conan the Barbarian.  Oof.

Edited by unixknight
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6 minutes ago, unixknight said:

I haven't seen it yet but I do plan to...

...after I finally get around to watching Justice League.

I love me some Jason Momoa.  He rocks.  Except when he's playing Conan the Barbarian.  Oof.

Save your time on Justice League.  Terrible movie.  Watch Alita in the 3D theater instead.  ;)

 

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My $0.02: 

I'll see a movie (usually via Netflix disk) because I'm interested in the content itself.  I do not judge an in-movie character based on the actor's real-world life  --- whether that life be full of stupidity or honor.   I'm watching a movie to watch a movie, nothing else.  Especially a super-hero movie.   

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21 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

My $0.02: 

I'll see a movie (usually via Netflix disk) because I'm interested in the content itself.  I do not judge an in-movie character based on the actor's real-world life  --- whether that life be full of stupidity or honor.   I'm watching a movie to watch a movie, nothing else.  Especially a super-hero movie.   

This is the problem we're talking about.

All this started because Marvel released Captain Marvel trailers where Brie Larson looks like she only has 3 facial muscles and 1 of them is stuck.   So social media went abuzz with how bad the trailer looks.  A meme went viral putting a smile on Captain Marvel and how its 100% improvement and Brie Larson responded that it's sexist to tell a woman to smile.  Top that with all the Marvel marketing about a HER-o and how Brie Larson is an activist and this movie is her way to promote her activism in places she otherwise can't reach... and the media calling those who panned the trailers as trolls... Dumpster fire.

And that's not even touching half the stuff - like the rumors that Captain Marvel is going to be the one to kill Thanos and how Chris Evans is out of contract so they're positioning Captain Marvel to replace Captain America as the Avenger's Lead in the MCU... Captain America and Iron Man has a long history in the MCU - at least 3 movies each plus the Avengers and the cameos in other character's movies - and they don't even get the send-off of winning against Thanos.... and then there's Black Widow that everybody loves who didn't get her own movie whose fandom now has to put up with Captain Marvel being the media-buzzed First Marvel Female Superhero lead in a movie (I guess they forgot about Elektra)... etc. etc.

Edited by anatess2
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3 hours ago, anatess2 said:

This is the problem we're talking about.

All this started because Marvel released Captain Marvel trailers where Brie Larson looks like she only has 3 facial muscles and 1 of them is stuck.   So social media went abuzz with how bad the trailer looks.  A meme went viral putting a smile on Captain Marvel and how its 100% improvement and Brie Larson responded that it's sexist to tell a woman to smile.  Top that with all the Marvel marketing about a HER-o and how Brie Larson is an activist and this movie is her way to promote her activism in places she otherwise can't reach... and the media calling those who panned the trailers as trolls... Dumpster fire.

Honestly, I totally don't care about that stuff.  I don't care about Brie Larson at all.  I only care about the on-screen time of Carol Danvers, and if the movie sucks then it'll get moved to the big "low priority to see".  

3 hours ago, anatess2 said:

And that's not even touching half the stuff - like the rumors that Captain Marvel is going to be the one to kill Thanos and how Chris Evans is out of contract so they're positioning Captain Marvel to replace Captain America as the Avenger's Lead in the MCU... Captain America and Iron Man has a long history in the MCU - at least 3 movies each plus the Avengers and the cameos in other character's movies - and they don't even get the send-off of winning against Thanos.... and then there's Black Widow that everybody loves who didn't get her own movie whose fandom now has to put up with Captain Marvel being the media-buzzed First Marvel Female Superhero lead in a movie (I guess they forgot about Elektra)... etc. etc.

...rumors rumors.  What is for sure that Marvel's going to go through a transition the next year or so, which may go great, or it may go terrible.  I'll let the reviewers (such as yourself actually, I like your reviews) tell me whether the move is a high or low priority to see.  

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12 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Honestly, I totally don't care about that stuff.  I don't care about Brie Larson at all.  I only care about the on-screen time of Carol Danvers, and if the movie sucks then it'll get moved to the big "low priority to see".  

...rumors rumors.  What is for sure that Marvel's going to go through a transition the next year or so, which may go great, or it may go terrible.  I'll let the reviewers (such as yourself actually, I like your reviews) tell me whether the move is a high or low priority to see.  

Ahh see.  This is the thing.  Rotten Tomatoes just showed that they manipulate reviews.

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14 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Ahh see.  This is the thing.  Rotten Tomatoes just showed that they manipulate reviews.

The RT tomato viewer isn't really my thing.  I'm much more interested in the gist of what reviews commonly say, to see if a movie is up my alley.  For example, @anatess2 said she really likes Alita Battle Angel because XYZ.  Ok, that movie got promoted from "not going to bother with" to "low priority to see".  

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14 hours ago, Jane_Doe said:

The RT tomato viewer isn't really my thing.  I'm much more interested in the gist of what reviews commonly say, to see if a movie is up my alley.  For example, @anatess2 said she really likes Alita Battle Angel because XYZ.  Ok, that movie got promoted from "not going to bother with" to "low priority to see".  

I'm disappointed.  After reading my review, I was expecting people to flock the theaters the next day!

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2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

I'm disappointed.  After reading my review, I was expecting people to flock the theaters the next day!

Actually go to ... the theater?  WHAT!?!?!  You speak blasphemy!!!   NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Realistically: between finding a sitter (I have none) and the price of said sitter and tickets, and the inconvenience of the whole thing, we only actually go to a theater every ~3 years or so.  Netflix streaming/dvd's are way simpler for us.  

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