Captain Marvel and the press


The Folk Prophet
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Guest MormonGator
On 3/9/2019 at 1:19 PM, Godless said:

I understand that viewpoint. But it's important to remember that most moviegoers aren't comic book nerds (full disclosure: I'm not), and that non-nerd majority is ultimately what will determine how well or poorly a movie does at the box office. 

It's like beer. The neckbeards who know the most about beer aren't the ones who keep the industry running. It's the casual drinkers who stick to one or two specific flavors who keep the lights on, and it's usually their dollars that brewers are chasing, not mine.

I understand completely. And the beer comparison is dead on. 

You and I are both music fans, so you'll understand this. When your favorite band changes their style a bit to achieve mainstream success (Think Metallica with The Black Album) you feel similar. You are irritated because suddenly, people love them and claim to have been fans forever. When you ask them to name another album by Metallica, they say "Fade to Black" which like we all know isn't an actual album-but a song off "Ride the Lightning." (That actually happened to me at work once). So you feel hurt, cheated and frankly, a little angry. But you are also happy that they've suddenly don't have to play sleazy bars and clubs to pay their bills. 

Edited by MormonGator
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Guest MormonGator
7 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

My 16 yr old loves comics.

Next time you come down to visit bring Vienna and him! 
 

(Seriously, both @LadyGator and I hope you can come again! We had so much fun going out to dinner with you and your daughter!) 

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Guest LiterateParakeet
3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Next time you come down to visit bring Vienna and him! 
 

(Seriously, both @LadyGator and I hope you can come again! We had so much fun going out to dinner with you and your daughter!) 

That would be an awesome reunion!  Vienna and I had a great time too.  I would love to do it again. 

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50 minutes ago, Godless said:

Opinions. Everyone is entitled to them. And no, most moviegoers aren't rabid MCU nerds like you.   

Thanks for the compliment.

Yes, opinions.  Just like you,  I’m also entitled to one.

 

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I can't comment with my own thoughts yet as I haven't seen it. Just sharing the impressions I've seen so far, which seem to drastically contradict the pre-release projections outlined in the OP, which kinda proves my original point thst RT was being trolled. I'm hoping to have a chance to see the movie on Monday, though it'll depend on how early in the day our new couch gets here.  

See, this is what bothers social media people, especially the Star Wars fandom, the “alt-right”, etc etc.  If you don’t agree with the vocal social media opinions, then they’re just trolls.  If that doesn’t work, then they’re just sexists, racists, homophobes.

Guess what RT had 58,000 reviews within 24 hours AFTER the movie released.   The audience rating sat at 33%.  RT PURGED 54,000 of them using their “troll purge filter logic”.  The audience rating still sat at 36%.

 

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Aaaand suddenly I don't care much about your MCU opinions. Infinity War was rough, but there's an obvious long game to it that will presumably be brought to a conclusion in End Game. That was evident in the Ant Man/Wasp credit scene (and the End Game trailer illustrated this connection pretty clearly). So one movie rubbed you the wrong way. Considering you knew there would be a sequel with two in-between films, would it kill you to wait it out and see what the bigger picture is? The way I see it, Infinity War was the glue that brought all the pieces of the MCU together, and the new reality is that the story won't be contained in one movie. You're either along for the ride or you aren't. Looks like you aren't. That's your prerogative, but it definitely taints your status as an MCU authority. 

I’m the Marvel nerd remember?  See, some people are just fine eating crap waiting for the chicken nugget.  Me, I have specific reasons for investing all that time and money on Marvel - Gambit, Rogue, and Loki.  Some nerds have Wolverine, some have Spiderman, some have Captain America, some have Hulk... these 4 are the most beloved Marvel characters in comics and OVA and now MCU.  

Gambit, Rogue, and Loki are niche.  And so is Ironman, Thor, amd the rest of the Avengers in the MCU.  They didn’t have universal appeal.  But the MCU versions of the Avengers were universally loved by their comics/OVA fans.  

Captain Marvel was Mar-Vel - a guy in the comics.  Miss Marvel took his torch and she later on becomes Captain Marvel (because feminists) but in the OVA, Rogue absorbed all her essence and so Danvers is in a coma and Rogue now has Captain Marvel inside her including her memories, etc.  Mar-Vel and Miss Marvel was niche but has fairly decent following.  The feminist version of Captain Marvel was panned - they made Miss Marvel Captain Marvel and proceeded to de-feminize her making her more like a Justin Beiber.  They had to reboot this failed character a few times in the comics.  So, if you’re a comic Mar-Vel/Miss Marvel fan, the MCU reboot is “criminal” because they took everything that Mar-Vel/Miss Marvel fans liked and made it into the very thing these same dans did not like in the Beiber Captain Marvel.

So why I’m done with the MCU.  The Thor movies has not been very good.  But Loki shined in the first Avengers.  So ok, I’ll keep watching... Then Ragnarok happened AND YEAH!!!  THERE YA GO!!!  WOOT WOOT!  Only to be rendered irrelevant in the first 10 minutes of Infinity War.  So... that’s it for me.

Now, Gambit... he was introduced in Wolverine (not MCU).  Movie sucked even as Gambit was cool.  No plans on having him in the MCU.

Now Rogue - Captain Marvel’s logo at the end of Infinity War actually got me perked up... Are they gonna have Rogue?  Then I saw the direction they’re trying to cook - making Captain Marvel the icon... well, they’re not gonne let Rogue suck up her powers anytime in the future.  So that’s that.

 

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And Spiderverse was incredible, btw. Not an MCU flick per se, but tremendously better than I was expecting from an animated Spiderman film.

I’m not big on Spiderman.  This new Spiderman reboot I like and that’s mainly because of Tom Holland and HAPPY HOGAN!!! Haha!

But yeah, I’m Avenging my Loki!  Oooora!

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59 minutes ago, Suzie said:

 But for those who are comic fans... this movie is, as one of my fave youtuber describes it... criminal... for what they did to the characters and their background. 

Whoever thinks that Captain Marvel is "criminal" "feminist" or whatever other twist they want to add are spending way too much in front of a computer. Time out! lol

After sinking all their money all these years on comics instead of upgrading their computers to keep up with the other nerds.... these people are entitled to bash MCU movies that pee on the comics. 😉

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Ok, let’s talk about the feminist trope in Captain Marvel.

But I’ll let you stsrt because my boy who has left the coop on his own for the first time last night is ringing my phone!!!  Modern Feminists irritate the heck out of this Boy Mom.

So 1:08 in this video is not just Brie Larson.  This is also the Captain Marvel character with her portrayed as having to fight the Patriarchy in the Air Force back in the 90’s.  That era is, of course, after the Top Gun era where a woman is a Top Gun instructor and the lead female character.

 

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1 hour ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Oh!  If it's feminist, that makes me want to see it more.  I  realize that isn't quite what you meant.  But if by "feminist" they mean strong, intelligent female characters....bring it! 

These feminists think Captain Marvel is a “glass-ceiling breaker”.  That is, there hasn’t been strong, intelligent female superhero characters before.  Black Widow?  Not it.  Scarlet Witch?  Not it.  Let’s go outside of MCU... (WW is direct competition so it’s understandable she’s ignored).  Elektra? Not good enough.  Selene (Underworld), nope.  Sarah Connor, nope.  Ellen Ripley, nope.  Leia Organa, nope.

You know why?  They’re FEMININE.  As in... they have weaknesses that require them to have to lean on the aid of a man.  Black Widow uses her traditional female wiles as her “super power”, Scarlet Witch was protected by her brother, then by Vision.  Elektra had Daredevil.  Sarah Connor raised the future Patriarchy... etc etc etc.

Carol Danvers doesn’t need anyone.  Especially men.  They even made her mentor (a man in the comics) a woman.  That’s what they call a feminist.

P.S. Alita? Not a feminist.  Even if she doesn’t have traditional female body so can’t be femme fatale.  But her subconscious have an image of her as having female breasts.  So can’t be feminist.

That’s the context of this culture war.

Edited by anatess2
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Guest LiterateParakeet
45 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

These feminists think Captain Marvel is a “glass-ceiling breaker”.  

I'll have to see it, and I can give you my opinion. I'm beginning to think the media only highlights or quotes the extremes...these feminists you are referring to being extreme.  I loved Black Panther, mostly because it had strong women, smart, capable women...women that were more than just the romantic interest of the male protagonist.

You post made me wonder...how many superhero movies (or other movies) does a man need a woman?  I'm not saying there aren't any...but I don't think that is the norm. I'll have to ponder it some more. 

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On 3/8/2019 at 5:17 PM, Godless said:

It's already made $84M this weekend. Current estimate for the entire weekend is sitting at $160-280M. Looks like RT was trolled after all.

That doesn't mean it was "trolled". Just because it made $84M doesn't mean it wouldn't have made double that otherwise, or that the concern and frustration expressed via RT was not genuine.

On 3/8/2019 at 10:02 PM, Godless said:

I was responding to TFP's claim that box office projections were plummeting prior to the release.

Just reporting what happened. Projections are just that though. They're guesswork.

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On 3/8/2019 at 10:02 PM, Godless said:

And when enough people are posting negative impressions on RT to give an overall negative outlook on a movie that many people (including some firm conservative LDS friends and family of mine) are already calling a top 5 MCU film, I believe that is the very definition of trolling.

Except it isn't the very definition of trolling. A trolling is, according to Merriam-Webster:

to antagonize (others) online by deliberately posting inflammatory, irrelevant, or offensive comments or other disruptive content

I'll grant that posting a "review" of the movie when one hasn't seen it yet might fit the bill there. That's not what happened. People clicked "I don't want to see this." To presume that was trolling it would need to be proven, something along the lines, that they actually did want to see it but were just clicking they didn't to disrupt things. There is no proof that's what happened. Therefore concluding they are merely trolls is the typical lazy, poor, "fake news" that's the new norm. All indications are that there are myriads of people who are not interested in this movie, legitimately. One doesn't have to look hard to find that. Read any comments section anywhere concerning the movie.

The reason why they don't want to see it doesn't make them trolls.

There's the strange misconception that if the reason isn't because the movie is bad, fails to entertain, doesn't get laughs, doesn't work emotionally, etc., etc., then the reason must not be sincere. I find it strange that people are so blind -- perhaps intentionally -- nowadays.

This is a major battle in a major culture war that may well be a turning point. It's a BIG deal. It doesn't matter if the movie is the most entertaining, well-made, artistic wonder to ever grace the screen. That's entirely irrelevant to how important this is and why this is bothering so many people. Most people who are disenchanted with what's going on probably don't understand this themselves -- but they feel it. They are disgruntled because they sense what's happening. But the best way they can express themselves is to give the move the lowest rating they can and write negative reviews of it. Yes, the reviews, in many cases, are probably not legitimate. But that goes both ways, because both sides sense what's happening. There are many people on the defend-and-sustain bandwagon as there are on the criticize-and-destroy one. And I don't believe either side are insincere in there feelings. This matters.

It's a losing battle for the conservative thinking side though.

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My daughter and grandson went to see this movie.  My grandson said it was good. 

I haven't seen it.  He said it would probably be too violent for my tastes and what I enjoy.

Couldn't get more out of him so I quizzed my daughter (they are over here right now).

My daughter said she liked it, she said the cat was funny.  She liked that the hero wore decent armor that wasn't skimpy, and it was a good movie overall.  It was funny but the cat was funniest of it all.  She really liked the Cat.  She said a spoiler to me (or what sounds like a spoiler...so don't read the next if you don't want spoilers).  I also made it all white so if you have this forum with a white background it may be hidden.  If not...sorry.

 

She said the cat was hilarious, that it didn't seem dangerous but, really, it was.

 

So, she seemed to enjoy the movie.

I don't plan on seeing the movie.  My grandson probably is right in his assessment.  They have a pretty good idea what I and grandma prefer to watch.

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On 2/26/2019 at 11:10 PM, NeuroTypical said:

(Her tribe owned slaves by the way - did you know that!  Did you know she married the dude?  Well, ya wouldn't have known that by WATCHING the DANG MOVIE!!!)

Actually I didn't know that they owned slaves, but I'm not surprised. I'm sure the precolumbian Native Americans were as much Pau-Puk-Keeewis as they were Hiawatha.

As for "she married the dude", which particular "dude" are you talking about? Pocahontas was married in England to a man called John Rolfe and - having by that time become a Christian - changed her first name to Rebecca. (Though people continued to call her "Princess Pocahontas" or "Princess Matoaka".) Rebecca and John had a son, Thomas, who had a great many descendants, some of whom are quite well known. The family intended to return to America, but Rebecca fell ill and died in 1617. She is buried in the churchyard at Gravesend, Kent where there is now a statue of her.

Her marriage to Rolfe was included in Disney's Pocahontas II - though in most respects that movie was about as historically accurate as the first.

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On 3/9/2019 at 3:43 PM, LiterateParakeet said:

I'll have to see it, and I can give you my opinion. I'm beginning to think the media only highlights or quotes the extremes...these feminists you are referring to being extreme.  I loved Black Panther, mostly because it had strong women, smart, capable women...women that were more than just the romantic interest of the male protagonist.  

Sure, that's the problem with the media.  They have their own narratives to push.  But when a comicbook series writes stories in the same vein, it's not anymore about the few extreme feminists in the media.  It becomes these few extreme feminists influencing comicbook stories and that's what causes all this backlash.

 

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You post made me wonder...how many superhero movies (or other movies) does a man need a woman?  I'm not saying there aren't any...but I don't think that is the norm. I'll have to ponder it some more. 

All good stories - superhero or otherwise - always have a good male character and good female character both with a power balance. 

1.  Superman and Lois Lane - the Pulitzer Prize winning Reporter for the Daily Planet who saves Clark Kent and even Superman's bumm several times.  Then there's Martha, Superman's human mother who Clark Kent/Superman runs to to heal his heart. 

2.  Spiderman and Mary Jane - the aspiring actress who actually managed to get an important job at Stark Industries and even at one time donned the Spiderman suit to save both Spiderman and Ironman at the same time.  And then there's Aunt May who Spiderman goes to to heal his heart.

3. Captain America and Agent Peggy Carter.  Captain America wouldn't have become Captain America without Agent Carter.

4.  Ironman and Pepper Potts who is no wilting lily as CEO of Stark Industries.  Ironman relies on Pepper to keep his company going so he can keep on making ironman suits...

5.  Batman and Catwoman - but the story of Batman isn't really focused on him needing Catwoman.  Rather, it's about Batman desperately broken because he lost his mother.

And my favorites:

6.  Gambit and Rogue.  This is a flipped story.  Rogue can kill Gambit without even trying.  So it's basically Gambit who have to prove why Rogue needs him - Gambit's entire OVA storyline (by the way, there's a newer animated series that is pure crap and so I ignore its existence) is basically trying to convince Rogue of this and Rogue resisting because she feels she can't lean on anybody especially Gambit because getting close to anybody could kill them.  Rogue ended up hating her mutant powers and trying to do drastic things to get rid of it because she desperately needs someone to heal her heart.  Gambit ends up healing her heart...  Ahhh... I really love these 2.  I can go on and on about them.

7.  Loki is a unique character.  He is a Norse god - male - but he can take on any form - male or female, even non-humanoid.  Loki has transformed into female several times to either accomplish certain objectives or to get out of trouble.

 

 

Edited by anatess2
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Guest LiterateParakeet

@anatess2, that was awesome. As I mentioned above, I'm really just now getting into Superheroes because of my son. You just gave me several more reasons to love them. I just recently watched the first two Iron Man movies and you are right, Pepper is great.  

I didn't know Lois Lane was a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter. I don't know if it wasn't in the movies or I wasn't paying enough attention. Very cool though, I love intelligent female characters. 

I've always had a soft spot for Mary Jane, but as she is portrayed in the movies she doesn't seem very strong. I had no idea she donned a Spiderman suit. I don't have a problem with Aunt May, keeping the home fires burning, it's a great way to live....but I appreciate when there are women in other roles as well. 

The others..I'm not at all familiar with, but sounds good.  :)

Maybe these "feminists" (quotation Mark's because they are a poor representation of feminists, in my opinion) have only seen the movies, or the have an agenda.. but like I said they don't represent Feminism any more than polygamists represent The Church of Jesus Christ. Both think they are right and represent the whole, but they most certainly do not and do more harm than good.

 

 

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1 hour ago, LiterateParakeet said:

@anatess2, that was awesome. As I mentioned above, I'm really just now getting into Superheroes because of my son. You just gave me several more reasons to love them. I just recently watched the first two Iron Man movies and you are right, Pepper is great.  

I didn't know Lois Lane was a Pulitzer Prize winning reporter. I don't know if it wasn't in the movies or I wasn't paying enough attention. Very cool though, I love intelligent female characters. 

I've always had a soft spot for Mary Jane, but as she is portrayed in the movies she doesn't seem very strong. I had no idea she donned a Spiderman suit. I don't have a problem with Aunt May, keeping the home fires burning, it's a great way to live....but I appreciate when there are women in other roles as well. 

The others..I'm not at all familiar with, but sounds good.  :) 

Superman: The Movie and Superman Returns are the only Superman movies in my world  ;)  My favorite scene in the first movie is "Can You Read My Mind" flight scene.  And yes, I'm fine with Superman rotating the earth backwards in time even as it is the most ridiculous thing.  Hah hah.  Even the blonde bombshell of a villain ends up saving Superman.  Superman Returns flight scene is also cool.  Lois got the Pulitzer for writing "Why the World Doesn't Need Superman" after Superman disappeared for 10 years and crime increased unabated.  It's basically an article calling on people to solve their own problems and not just hope for a superhero to swoop down from the sky to save them.  The dropping to earth in a cross-like-posture is ridiculous but I'll put up with it.  And the female villain also ends up neutralizing Lex Luthor.

Yeah, the Toby McGuire Spiderman movies didn't do Mary Jane justice.  Nor Spiderman for that matter.  Didn't like those movies at all.  Mary Jane is not in the new Tom Holland movie.  But she's awesome in the original comics such that when a few years ago they changed Spiderman's story to make Spiderman get rid of Mary Jane in exchange for Aunt May's life people made their displeasure known.

I have a feeling you're gonna love Rogue.  She started off as a villain to the Avengers and joined the Xmen after she got very positive responses from fans. 

 

1 hour ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Maybe these "feminists" (quotation Mark's because they are a poor representation of feminists, in my opinion) have only seen the movies, or the have an agenda.. but like I said they don't represent Feminism any more than polygamists represent The Church of Jesus Christ. Both think they are right and represent the whole, but they most certainly do not and do more harm than good.

That's the problem with Feminists - these new leaders of the movement (the ones that have politician's ears) are not REAL feminists.  And they're the vocal majority that head these feminist organizations, like NOW, and organize events like Women's March.  This is why back in 2016, only 24% of Americans self-identify as feminist and only 7% of of Britons self-identify as such even as over 80% of women believe women should be equal to men.

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On 3/12/2019 at 1:18 PM, LiterateParakeet said:

@anatess2, this is great stuff.  Keep educating me cause it's good bonding with my son and I'm finding I really do enjoy comics...win/win.  I will check out Rogue for sure!

So Rogue has her own comicbook series.  There are only 4 issues in the volume so easy peasy to collect (and they're not expensive either for old comics).  Gambit has his own series as well, also only 4 issues in the first volume and Rogue is in it.  So easy peasy to collect.  ;)

 

Edited by anatess2
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Here ya go.  This is why lots of people hate these "FEMINISTS" movies.  Because you got people like Clark Gregg and whoever this Nerdist guy is just spreading their own echo chamber of lies and lies and lies and.... more lies.... DEMONIZING MEN.  This makes Boy Moms like me believe - MODERN FEMINISM IS CANCER.

Clark Gregg:  "White males are <bumm hurt> about girls wanting to have a hero who look like them because they've always had a hero who looks like them".

LIES.  Greatest female heroes praised by a majority of male viewers:  Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Wonder Woman, and even the most recent - Alita.  Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, and Gamora are loved by MCU fans.  Black Panther is loved by majority white male MCU fans.

Clark Gregg: "The MCU wouldn't be a complete canvas without <list of minorities here>".

LIE.  Filipinos don't go to MCU or DCEU movies thinking... hmm... they don't look like me, I can't relate to them.  If your Superhero cannot relate to Filipinos without being a Filipino, YOU FAILED in your characterization.  We're not racists, you just think we are.

Clark Gregg:  "This is the first MCU movie with a lead female." 

LIE.  Elektra came out in 2005.  Antman and the Wasp came out in 2018.

Nerdist:  "Haters review bombed Rotten Tomatoes before the movie even came out".

LIE.  You can't leave a review on Rotten Tomatoes before a movie is released.  The commenters simply clicked on the button to say they are not interested in watching the movie.

There are more lies in this video in under 5 minutes than Pinocchio would run out of noses before this is over.

Pathetic.

 

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Guest Godless

Saw Captain Marvel this morning, really enjoyed it. I agree with the critique that the cinematography could have been better. Loved the 90's pop culture references, especially Stan Lee's cameo 😙👌. I think a strong case can be made for it being a top 5 MCU flick, though I haven't made up my mind whether I personally feel that way. It's got some pretty stiff competition, after all.

Edited by Godless
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13 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Here ya go.  This is why lots of people hate these "FEMINISTS" movies.  Because you got people like Clark Gregg and whoever this Nerdist guy is just spreading their own echo chamber of lies and lies and lies and.... more lies.... DEMONIZING MEN.  This makes Boy Moms like me believe - MODERN FEMINISM IS CANCER.

Clark Gregg:  "White males are <bumm hurt> about girls wanting to have a hero who look like them because they've always had a hero who looks like them".

LIES.  Greatest female heroes praised by a majority of male viewers:  Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Wonder Woman, and even the most recent - Alita.  Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, and Gamora are loved by MCU fans.  Black Panther is loved by majority white male MCU fans.

Clark Gregg: "The MCU wouldn't be a complete canvas without <list of minorities here>".

LIE.  Filipinos don't go to MCU or DCEU movies thinking... hmm... they don't look like me, I can't relate to them.  If your Superhero cannot relate to Filipinos without being a Filipino, YOU FAILED in your characterization.  We're not racists, you just think we are.

Clark Gregg:  "This is the first MCU movie with a lead female." 

LIE.  Elektra came out in 2005.  Antman and the Wasp came out in 2018.

Nerdist:  "Haters review bombed Rotten Tomatoes before the movie even came out".

LIE.  You can't leave a review on Rotten Tomatoes before a movie is released.  The commenters simply clicked on the button to say they are not interested in watching the movie.

There are more lies in this video in under 5 minutes than Pinocchio would run out of noses before this is over.

Pathetic.

 

There is a *massive* media push to make this film as successful as possible, and to accordingly label anyone who doesn't like it as a "hater". 

When this happens, facts are inconvenient to the narrative.

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