When a Leader Said Something REALLY Hurtful (And How I Got Over It)


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3 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Okay, because of this discussion, I read the article.  I LOVED it.  Amy Keim, if you're reading this, Well done.  

I found it to be a beautiful article about forgiveness.  Yes, our leaders mean well but they are human beings, and they are bound to make mistakes.  I know I have been hurt by well-intended church leaders before.  The main point of the article, in my opinion, was two-fold (or two points?). First, was a beautiful message about forgiving those who have hurt us whether they are leaders, or some other connection.  Second, was that our leaders are not perfect and that's okay because we're not perfect either.  Christ can heal all wounds, and is willing to forgive our shortcomings too.  

Great article. 

I think there will be a generational shift. Some (key word, some) older people don't really understand depression/mental illness. As that generation phases out and younger people take over (not an insult, statement of how life works) I am confident our leadership will be much more understanding as to how mental illness should be treated. 

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12 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Anyone remember the cartoon King of the Hill?  Anyone remember Hank's racist, sexist father Cotton?  Anyone remember the episode where the Mom was in that accident and might never walk again, and Cotton took over her physical therapy?  

Never watched the show. I always thought it looked like Fox's way of mocking middle American "rednecks". I gather it may not have been like that. Maybe I would have liked it. What do you think, NT?

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8 minutes ago, Vort said:

Never watched the show. I always thought it looked like Fox's way of mocking middle American "rednecks". I gather it may not have been like that. Maybe I would have liked it. What do you think, NT?

No, I think your initial impression is pretty much correct.  The show tried for social commentary, but it was so often buried in the dungheap of shock humor, it was hard to see.  It was basically Homer Simpson at Moe's bar, except made into an entire series. 

But the episode where Cotton got Peggy back on her feet was a rare gem that showed a little depth of character.  He basically humiliated her until she got ticked off enough at him to punch him in the face, and she regained her ability to walk just so she could dance on his grave.  Which was his goal too - he danced with her.

Anatess' story about the person with lupus reminded me of the episode.

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2 hours ago, Vort said:

With all due respect to @unixknight and his greater insights into such issues as we're discussing, I maintain that there are plenty of worse and more useless replies than "buck up and get over it." In many cases, especially with young, inexperienced people such as missionaries, "buck up and get over it" may often be the very best reply.

I think you're probably right in the majority of cases.  I can only speak about the very specific case of Clinical Depression. 

I hate to say it, but I'm one of those guys who has very little patience for Millennial thinking, and it isn't hard to imagine that being the center of a lot of cases where a missionary has trouble adapting.  To those, I'd add my voice to yours and say "get over it, kid."

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An opinion from someone who can't look inside folks and judge righteously, but occasionally forms an opinion anyway:  For every true case of clinical depression, there are a large handful of people in love with the notion that they're special enough to warrant being treated like they've got clinical depression.  

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Just now, NeuroTypical said:

An opinion from someone who can't look inside folks and judge righteously, but occasionally forms an opinion anyway:  For every true case of clinical depression, there are a large handful of people in love with the notion that they're special enough to warrant being treated like they've got clinical depression.  

Hence the absurd and otherwise unaccountable rise of "companion animals" and those who demand—DEMAND, I say!—accommodation.

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The circle you have to square when giving life-advice to someone with mental health issues, is that often the issue serves as a distraction from reality; and the person then sees no reason to conform their behavior to a reality their illness leads them to ignore or even deny.

When I represented parents whose kids were in DCFS custody, easily over half of them were struggling with depression or some other issue.  You want to be sensitive to that; but they also have—HAVE—to face the reality that they’ve got 12 months to get their crap together or else they will lose their kids permanently; and someone’s got to tell them that.  We can’t change reality to conform to the idiosyncrasies—however sincerely felt—of any individual.  (Example:  what if the bishop/GA was actually struggling with a mental illness of their own?  We’re all under the same covenant to bear others’ burdens, so why shouldn’t the member change to accommodate the leader’s weakness rather than the reverse? We run the risk of triggering a race to the bottom as each party comes up with an ever-more-debilitating illness to explain why discussions and councils and policy decisions must play out THEIR way, without regard to the merits of any person’s actual position or preferred course of action.)

Having had to warn (or be present as others warned) mentally ill folks of the harsh realities and expectations they need to rise to on more occasions than I can count (and having seen those conversations flagrantly misrepresented more than once), I’m not inclined to Monday-morning-quarterback the good-faith efforts of others who find themselves  in that same boat as a result of calling rather than profession.  

And regarding the helpfulness (or not) or mentioning the LDS pioneers in such a context, all I can say is that some folks with depression *want* to hear that others have overcome tremendous setbacks to live normal lives, and others . . . don’t.  And as harsh as it sounds:  if they don’t want to get better, then they’re going to have a very uncomfortable time in this church.  It’s wonderful that, after years, some of the folks in the article’s anecdotes decided that the gospel is primarily about changing ourselves rather than changing others.  But it says something rather disconcerting that this “Lord, is it I?” mentality apparently isn’t the immediate go-to position for many, many Latter-day Saints when they hear something in the bishop’s office that they don’t like. 

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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I just read the article, and I think the author's motives are pure. It really doesn't matter if we think the GC's advice was helpful or not. The fact of the matter is, she didn't and it upset her. But rather than dwell on it, leave her mission early, and ask to be removed from the records of the church as some do, she learned to not only forgive the GC and let it go, but a valuable lesson about staying true to our faith no matter who offends us. She came out of the experience strengthed, and I think the article does a good job of saying, sometimes you are going to be upset by what a church leader tells you. So what? Your relationship with Christ is more important, and you should be loving of and forgiving towards our leaders, who are trying to do the same. Seems like a valuable lesson to me .

Edited by Midwest LDS
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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

And regarding the helpfulness (or not) or mentioning the LDS pioneers in such a context, 

This reminds me - anyone know the Little House on the Prarie books?  Laura Ingalls Wilder's historical fiction of her growing up in the 1800's frontier?  One of the books has a startling tale of mental illness.  It's one of the later books - Laura is like 14-15, and she's teaching school one town over, and living with a family.  The tale Laura tells paints a picture of a mom who is somewhere between depressed and outright paranoid schizophrenic.  She's crammed into a 2 room cabin with these folks, in her "room" (basically behind a hanging blanket), listening to the husband and wife argue at night.  Wife is saying horrible things to the husband, accusing him of wanting young Laura, accusing him of trying to kill her, demanding to move back east.  At one point she even attacks her husband with a knife, and he has to wrestle it away from her.  Next morning, of course, nobody talks about it - awkward silence at breakfast.  Laura has to finish up the month with them, and then makes other living arrangements, she can't talk about it.  Nobody talks about it.

We do things better these days.  It's still important to learn about this stuff.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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18 hours ago, Suzie said:

Well, you seem to expect that everybody, especially the GA, should know how to handle depression.

Really? And you came to that conclusion because...?🤔

 

19 hours ago, Suzie said:

Depression is not a choice and if we don't know how to handle someone's depression, we can always seek the help of a professional.

The bolded above puts the responsibility of #1 - recognizing depression, #2 - seeking the help of a professional - on everybody who don't suffer from depression.  Every single one of my posts above addresses the error of this thinking.

 

Edited by anatess2
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" The bolded above puts the responsibility of #1 - recognizing depression, #2 - seeking the help of a professional - on everybody who don't suffer from depression.  Every single one of my posts above addresses the error of this thinking. "

No, you are misinterpreting my post. I didn't say anything about the GA having the responsibility  (emphasis on responsibility) to seek the help of a professional neither I expect him to recognize depression. That's absurd.

What I am saying is: If you do not know how to address someone who is depressed, it is advisable to seek the help of a professional so they can properly guide you. This is not about responsibility, this is about learning the necessary tools that could help you communicate better with someone who has a mental illness, it doesn't matter who you are. I believe all Church leaders should receive some sort of training with regards to this.

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/5/2019 at 1:20 PM, LiterateParakeet said:

Okay, because of this discussion, I read the article.  I LOVED it.  Amy Keim, if you're reading this, Well done.  

I found it to be a beautiful article about forgiveness.  Yes, our leaders mean well but they are human beings, and they are bound to make mistakes.  I know I have been hurt by well-intended church leaders before.  The main point of the article, in my opinion, was two-fold (or two points?). First, was a beautiful message about forgiving those who have hurt us whether they are leaders, or some other connection.  Second, was that our leaders are not perfect and that's okay because we're not perfect either.  Christ can heal all wounds, and is willing to forgive our shortcomings too.  

Great article. 

Thanks for being so sweet and not calling me a "pathetic" child ;) Your words completely illustrate my intent with this article, and I really appreciate your kindness.

Edited by amykeim
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