Matthew 12:40

[askandanswer]

Matthe 12:40  For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
 

I must be missing something - I always thought that Jesus spent Friday night and maybe Saturday in the tomb, which adds up to two nights, not the three nights suggested by Matthew 12:40. What am I missing here?

[CV75]

32 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

Matthe 12:40  For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
 

I must be missing something - I always thought that Jesus spent Friday night and maybe Saturday in the tomb, which adds up to two nights, not the three nights suggested by Matthew 12:40. What am I missing here?

Perhaps, or in a sense, a part(s) of Him died in Gethsemane Thursday night (His lifeblood was spilled into the ground) and afterward on His way to the cross.

[Anddenex]

It doesn't matter, the story of Jonas never happened so we can take this all as figurative. Joking aside, that is a good question. This is either a translation error, or a general statement specifying it was three days (which includes the night of the third day even if he left the tomb mid-afternoon).

Possible answers:

1) Translation error

2) We do not have an accurate account of time of when he entered the tomb and when he was resurrected

3) General statement specifying three days.

Edited March 5, 2019 by Anddenex

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

Matthe 12:40  For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
 

I must be missing something - I always thought that Jesus spent Friday night and maybe Saturday in the tomb, which adds up to two nights, not the three nights suggested by Matthew 12:40. What am I missing here?

This is easily explained when understands ancient number theory.  In short positive integer (counting) number theory without zero.  Most ancient cultures had very limited understanding of number theory.  As such the first counting number was 1.  In addition, fractions were not understood so any new increment was a new number to be counted.

Since Jesus died during the first increment; Friday would be counted as the first day.  Even if there were only a few minutes left for that day.  The second day would be Saturday.  As soon as the next increment was met (which was Sunday) that would be the 3rd day.  Thus the proper way to express the time would be 3 days.  This is also an example of flaws in translation.  If the translation was correct for our modern English the scripture should be one 24 hour day (from Friday to Saturday evening) and then so many hours between the death and resurrection of Jesus some time early Sunday morning.  In other one day and a partial day.  This is because the reality was that Jesus was not even two full days in the tomb before he was resurrected.  

 

The Traveler

[Vort]

Just now, Anddenex said:

It doesn't matter, the story of Jonas never happened so we can take this all as figurative.

Not to put a pin in your joke balloon, but even if the story of Jonah/Jonas is just a made-up morality tale rather than a literal account, that doesn't really impact the Savior's words, any more than my saying "Don't build a house of straw!" would be meaningless because, you know, there weren't really three little pigs that built houses out of various substances for a wolf to come and try to blow down.

(Maybe I should add: *** SPOILER! ***)

[Anddenex]

8 minutes ago, Vort said:

Not to put a pin in your joke balloon, but even if the story of Jonah/Jonas is just a made-up morality tale rather than a literal account, that doesn't really impact the Savior's words, any more than my saying "Don't build a house of straw!" would be meaningless because, you know, there weren't really three little pigs that built houses out of various substances for a wolf to come and try to blow down.

(Maybe I should add: *** SPOILER! ***)

You didn't, so we are OK.

[askandanswer]

17 minutes ago, Traveler said:

This is easily explained when understands ancient number theory.  In short positive integer (counting) number theory without zero.  Most ancient cultures had very limited understanding of number theory.  As such the first counting number was 1.  In addition, fractions were not understood so any new increment was a new number to be counted.

Since Jesus died during the first increment; Friday would be counted as the first day.  Even if there were only a few minutes left for that day.  The second day would be Saturday.  As soon as the next increment was met (which was Sunday) that would be the 3rd day.  Thus the proper way to express the time would be 3 days.  This is also an example of flaws in translation.  If the translation was correct for our modern English the scripture should be one 24 hour day (from Friday to Saturday evening) and then so many hours between the death and resurrection of Jesus some time early Sunday morning.  In other one day and a partial day.  This is because the reality was that Jesus was not even two full days in the tomb before he was resurrected.  

 

The Traveler

I've come across this idea before and I have no concerns with it - it seems like a plausibly possible way of coming up with three days, but I can't see how to come up with three nights. 

[askandanswer]

22 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

It doesn't matter, the story of Jonas never happened so we can take this all as figurative. Joking aside, that is a good question. This is either a translation error, or a general statement specifying it was three days (which includes the night of the third day even if he left the tomb mid-afternoon).

Possible answers:

1) Translation error

2) We do not have an accurate account of time of when he entered the tomb and when he was resurrected

3) General statement specifying three days.

I checked my hard copy of the scriptures and there was nothing to indicate that this was a translation error, although that doesn't prove anything either way as I suspect that there are many unfootnoted/uncorrected translations errors. 

[Anddenex]

Just now, askandanswer said:

I checked my hard copy of the scriptures and there was nothing to indicate that this was a translation error, although that doesn't prove anything either way as I suspect that there are many unfootnoted/uncorrected translations errors. 

Correct. I have never seen any correction for this either. I was proposing this as a potential option since we do know the Bible was not translated correctly, and I think we are safe to assume Joseph didn't update everything.

[MrShorty]

I have seen some theorize that there was a "floating" Sabbath (other than the weekly Saturday Sabbath) that occurred on Wednesday or Thursday of that week that year. I posted some links in this thread:

 

[mordorbund]

When the covenant was broken by killing Jesus, the whole calendar was thrown into disarray.

Quote

Thus saith the Lord; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season

Jeremiah 33:20

 

Please don't take this seriously...

Edited March 5, 2019 by mordorbund

[Traveler]

17 hours ago, askandanswer said:

I've come across this idea before and I have no concerns with it - it seems like a plausibly possible way of coming up with three days, but I can't see how to come up with three nights. 

There is a problem in translating scripture.  It concerns two elements - the first has to do will current sayings that are either ambiguous or literally conflicted - the second is attempting to provide a "literal" translation rather than a conceptual translation based in the symbolism being used.  I will try to deal with these problems by presenting examples and explanations.

First: let's consider ambiguous with a simple sentence.  "The lamb is to hot to eat".  Ambiguity exist because; if this is all we have to go on - we cannot determine if the lamb is what is trying to eat or what is being eaten.  Sometimes the only way to determine what the meaning is - is to understand the current customs embedded in the language used.  If we are dealing with ancient culture and language that has evolved it may be impossible to determine the literal meaning.  So as smart as a scholar may be - the result is a guess.

Second: Lets deal with what I have labeled as literally conflicted.  I thought about using an actual scripture - but decided against it because there are some that will argue literal conflicted meaning based in their own rational rather than realizing the context.  So I will use as an example, a sportscaster giving commentary for a football game.  As a runner breaks through tackles and accelerates into the endzone for a touchdown the announcer exclaims, "And there the runner goes; literally flying down the field, leaving everybody behind".  The "Literally flying down the field" is obviously literally conflicted.  But those familiar with sport broadcasters know what was intended and the exaggeration is not entirely pointless except to the poor soul that is not familiar with sport broadcasters and their unethical use of language. 

The Third and final: consider the literal meaning being different than the symbolic intent.  This is related to #2 above but is slightly different - especially when one is trying to translate to a different language.  Let us take the statement, "He is just too big for his britches".   Literally, the example has to do with size and clothing - but what is intended and understood in current custom is that the individual is not just someone with an ego - but someone that is wrong in how they are treating others.

The statement is question comes to us from the ancient Greek but not in the classical use of the Greek language but rather in using the Greek language to describe something that was said in Aramaic, which was the language used at the time and place this all took place.  I would also point out that in the ancient culture it was believed that a person did not die or that their spirit did not immediately depart until the expression of 3 days and nights had passed - so it is possible that a translation of someone dying and their spirit passing on - with the expression that they had been in the tomb for 3 days and 3 nights when the reality is literally conflicted.

But I have another motive in posting all this - in essence I am suggesting that the only way for one to understand scripture is through the gift of the Holy Ghost.  That we may be inspired by the spirit is very different than the divine Gift of the Holy Ghost.  This is because the Gift of the Holy Ghost is a covenant.  Thus to understand the difference of between a inspired "feeling" and a covenant understanding - I would use the symbolism of dating and marriage.  We may be inspired while dating of a person's goodness or lack of it but when we are living under the covenant of marriage we come much closer to a knowledge of them - as a result of what the scripture calls "becoming one".

 

The Traveler

[unixknight]

21 hours ago, Vort said:

Not to put a pin in your joke balloon, but even if the story of Jonah/Jonas is just a made-up morality tale rather than a literal account, that doesn't really impact the Savior's words, any more than my saying "Don't build a house of straw!" would be meaningless because, you know, there weren't really three little pigs that built houses out of various substances for a wolf to come and try to blow down.

(Maybe I should add: *** SPOILER! ***)

Aw great you add the spoiler alert at the end... now I don't need to bother finishing the Three Little Pigs.  THANKS A LOT, @Vort

[wenglund]

23 hours ago, askandanswer said:

Matthe 12:40  For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
 

I must be missing something - I always thought that Jesus spent Friday night and maybe Saturday in the tomb, which adds up to two nights, not the three nights suggested by Matthew 12:40. What am I missing here?

While accounting for the numbers of nights may be of interest to some, I am far more curious about how Jonas is a sign of Christ.

However, rather than derail this thread, for those interested, I started another thread to explore the topic. It is titled, Redemptive Reading of Mark. The connection between the title of the thread and the subject of Johas as the sing of Christ, will become apparent after reading the article linked therein.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited March 6, 2019 by wenglund

[Aaddaamm]

A Jewish day is 12 hours long.

He died 12pm Friday.

Dead for 1 day = Friday afternoon

Dead 1 night = Friday night

2 day = Saturday

2 night = Saturday 

3 day =Sunday morning.

3 night = Sunday night,

He didnt appear to the apostles until the night time. So all, except the apostles thought that his body was in the tomb for the 3 days and nights. It definately was for 3 days.