Redemptive Reading of Mark

[wenglund]

Given that the Study Board has no topic for this weeks (or last weeks) Come Follow Me lesson, I figured it was okay to post it here.

IN the course of my research, I came across a fascinating article titled, A Redemptive Reading of Mark 5:25-34, by Julie M. Smith.  

This article astutely compares and contrasts the story of Eve in Genesis with the story of the woman that hath and issue in Mark,  and demonstrates what some have come to call an "inverted motif," though rightly Julie considered it a redemptive reading. 

By this it is meant that the two stories have similar beginnings (figuratively speaking), they have opposing endings--the first representing descension (the fall), and the second  ascension (redemption).

The article touches on several other correlations, including the story of Johas in connection with several New Testament events.

My intent for this thread is to use this article as a springboard for discussing  Jonas as a sign of Christ--a question prompted by another thread., while also considering the scriptural focus of the article more in-depth.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Phineas]

You mention the story of the hemorrhaging woman who touches Christ’s garment and is healed.  The Come Follow Me manual and Thomas Wayment’s study Bible both point out that her condition made her “unclean” which made her ostracized by society.  Wayment references Leviticus 15. 

I am probably being extremely immature by asking this, but am I correct in understanding that this woman was having chronic vaginal bleeding?   Or am I way off base?

In any case, the fact that she was made clean ceremonially as well as healed physically adds a layer to the story.

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Phineas

[wenglund]

18 minutes ago, Phineas said:

You mention the story of the hemorrhaging woman who touches Christ’s garment and is healed.  The Come Follow Me manual and Thomas Wayment’s study Bible both point out that her condition made her “unclean” which made her ostracized by society.  Wayment references Leviticus 15. 

Correct. The correlation to Eve , among other things, was that both women were forbidden to touch, causing them to face a difficult situation . And, both women made the choice to touch the forbidden.  However, the outcomes are reverse. Smith's article explains further.

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I am probably being extremely immature by asking this, but am I correct in understanding that this woman was having chronic vaginal bleeding?   Or am I way off base?

You are correct. Smith states" Because menstruation was regarded as one of the results of Eve’s sin¹⁰ and was linked with sin in general (Lamentations 1:17 and Ezekiel 36:17-18),¹¹ the hemorrhaging woman is associated with Eve. More broadly, the woman’s condition of ceaseless menstrual hemorrhaging is a magnification of the normal female condition. These associations make the hemorrhaging woman the ideal narrative re-creation of Eve in her fallen state."

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In any case, the fact that she was made clean ceremonially as well as healed physically adds a layer to the story.

It does indeed. She is not only an example of the cleansing power of Christ, but also metaphorically an example of Christ's power to redeem from the fall.

Fantastic stuff!

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Guest Mores]

On 3/6/2019 at 1:56 PM, wenglund said:

Given that the Study Board has no topic for this weeks (or last weeks) Come Follow Me lesson, I figured it was okay to post it here.

IN the course of my research, I came across a fascinating article titled, A Redemptive Reading of Mark 5:25-34, by Julie M. Smith.  

This article astutely compares and contrasts the story of Eve in Genesis with the story of the woman that hath and issue in Mark,  and demonstrates what some have come to call an "inverted motif," though rightly Julie considered it a redemptive reading. 

By this it is meant that the two stories have similar beginnings (figuratively speaking), they have opposing endings--the first representing descension (the fall), and the second  ascension (redemption).

The article touches on several other correlations, including the story of Johas in connection with several New Testament events.

My intent for this thread is to use this article as a springboard for discussing  Jonas as a sign of Christ--a question prompted by another thread., while also considering the scriptural focus of the article more in-depth.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

This is a really fascinating perspective.  But what does that tell us, really?

Wasn't Eve given redemption after the fall?  Wasn't the declaration of a Savior made even prior to being cast out of the garden?  And I don't see where the woman in Mark was "forbidden" to touch the hem of the Lord's garment.  Where does that come from?

And I've always had a hard time with the comparing of Jesus with Jonah.  It seems to me that most people believe that Jonah, while a prophet, wasn't really a good role model.  And to have him be labeled as a Type of Christ is incongruent in my mind.  How do you reconcile that?

Edited March 14, 2019 by Mores

[wenglund]

2 hours ago, Mores said:

This is a really fascinating perspective.  But what does that tell us, really?

Wasn't Eve given redemption after the fall?  Wasn't the declaration of a Savior made even prior to being cast out of the garden?  And I don't see where the woman in Mark was "forbidden" to touch the hem of the Lord's garment.  Where does that come from?

And I've always had a hard time with the comparing of Jesus with Jonah.  It seems to me that most people believe that Jonah, while a prophet, wasn't really a good role model.  And to have him be labeled as a Type of Christ is incongruent in my mind.  How do you reconcile that?

Good questions.  

The biblical record available to the Jews at the time of Christ's mortal ministry (i.e the Old Testament) only mentioned Eve twice. In neither case was any indication given of redemption. And, while the Book of Moses does mention the redemption of Adam and Eve (Moses 5:10-11), it is hardly the focus of the Eve narrative.; whereas redemption was the  focus in healing the woman with an issue. In a way, then, the healing of the woman with an  issue may be considered a redemptive history in that it was a metaphoric representation of the redemption of Eve, particularly to those observing the miracle in that day.

According to :Leviticus 15:19-30, during the time that women are menstruating, they are considered unclean, and aren't to be touched (and by implication they aren't to touch others), else-wise others would likewise be made unclean. This is, in part, why the woman who was healed by Jesus "trembled  with fear"  (see Mk 5:32) when Jesus inquired who had touched him. 

As for Jonah/Jonas as a type for Christ, this is only in the  very limited sense , particularly in the sense that both would be "entombed" for three day before being raised therefrom.  Jesus doesn't refer to Jonas as a type, but rather as a "sign" (Lk 11:29-30). And, in verse 32, Jesus indicates  that "a greater than Jonas is here." referring of course to himself.

For a nice list of where Jonah/Jonas and Jesus compare and contrast, see HERE.

Of relevant note is where both were asleep during a raging storm on the waters, and were confronted by others in the respective boats, who viewed them as the means for calming the raging storm. In this regard, given the divergent methods employed to calm things, and the differing results thereof, the story of Jesus and his power over the elements, may rightly be viewed as a redemption of Jonah who was sacrificed into, but impotent in calming the storm.

Said another way, the pertinent events in the Old Testament used individuals like Eve and Jonah to symbolize the descending of mankind/Israel, whereas the events in the New Testament focused on Christ, and symbolized the ascension of mankind/Israel. In a sense, the New Testament is a "redemptive reading" of the Old Testament.

I hope this helps.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Traveler]

4 hours ago, Mores said:

I've always had a hard time with the comparing of Jesus with Jonah.  It seems to me that most people believe that Jonah, while a prophet, wasn't really a good role model.  And to have him be labeled as a Type of Christ is incongruent in my mind.  How do you reconcile that?

I find Johan one of the greatest role models of Christ.  Both had to willingly sacrifice their own will, intent and desire to fulfill their mission.  Both died as a knowing and willing sacrifice (choice) and then returned from the depths of the grave to redeem sinners (those obviously unworthy but willing to repent).

 

The Traveler

Edited March 14, 2019 by Traveler

[Traveler]

On 3/6/2019 at 12:56 PM, wenglund said:

Given that the Study Board has no topic for this weeks (or last weeks) Come Follow Me lesson, I figured it was okay to post it here.

IN the course of my research, I came across a fascinating article titled, A Redemptive Reading of Mark 5:25-34, by Julie M. Smith.  

This article astutely compares and contrasts the story of Eve in Genesis with the story of the woman that hath and issue in Mark,  and demonstrates what some have come to call an "inverted motif," though rightly Julie considered it a redemptive reading. 

By this it is meant that the two stories have similar beginnings (figuratively speaking), they have opposing endings--the first representing descension (the fall), and the second  ascension (redemption).

The article touches on several other correlations, including the story of Johas in connection with several New Testament events.

My intent for this thread is to use this article as a springboard for discussing  Jonas as a sign of Christ--a question prompted by another thread., while also considering the scriptural focus of the article more in-depth.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Interesting - I find that with both Eve and "the woman" that their faith was the driving force that made them whole.   I disagree with the particular reading in Mark.  I believe that Jesus felt virtue, not so much leaving him but rather touching him.  I believe that the faith (in Christ and the eternal plan of salvation) is what brings anyone to wholeness.   With Eve I believe many focus too much on the fall and not on her virtue and faith.

 

The Traveler