Please can I ask your advice on finding a church to attend with my girlfriend.

[AbramM]

5 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

She is a Christian.  She's just not a Protestant. 

yeah sorry I didn't mean she wasn't a christian. I just meant I thought she was a christian like me as in we shared beliefs. 

[Jane_Doe]

4 minutes ago, AbramM said:

yeah sorry I didn't mean she wasn't a christian. I just meant I thought she was a christian like me as in we shared beliefs. 

The most important things are shared (Christ, the atonement) but there are differences in other areas.  Obviously it would be best to chat with your girl about what she believes directly.  But if you want, we can share standard LDS Christian beliefs and how they compare.  Two possible ways to go about doing this would be--

1) Start with basic LDS Christian beliefs (like MannersMatter posts our Articles of Faith).

2) Talk first about whichever subjects you feel are most important.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[AbramM]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

The fact that your girlfriend is preparing to marry you demonstrates either that she's not all that attached to the Church or that she's so head-over-heels, googoo-eyed in love with you that it's overwhelming her.

She hasn't been very honest with me about her beliefs so either they don't mean very much to her or she doesn't love me enough to be honest with me. 

 

1 hour ago, Vort said:

A Latter-day Saint who understands and loves her religion will cling to it. As Christ taught, anyone who values father or mother, sister or brother over the Lord is unfit for the kingdom of God. Our first loyalty must always be to God, as I'm sure you agree.

 

i'm not trying to stop her being a christian, I wouldn't marry her if she wasn't a Christian. My loyalty is to God not to the church I am a member of and I thought that was true for her too. Of course, if her loyalty is to the Latter-day Saint church then we will never agree on a church or get married. 

 

1 hour ago, Vort said:

• Your girlfriend finds her love for the gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and decides (correctly) to make that a top priority. You cannot reconcile your beliefs with hers, and your relationship with her eventually withers and dies. (This is what I would call "sad, but frankly it could be worse".

I would never marry someone who didn't share my beliefs, I don't believe that is what God wants for me. 

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14)

[AbramM]

9 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 Obviously it would be best to chat with your girl about what she believes directly.

I don't want to talk to her right now. 

[anatess2]

10 minutes ago, AbramM said:

yeah sorry I didn't mean she wasn't a christian. I just meant I thought she was a christian like me as in we shared beliefs. 

I have a word for you:  RESTORATION

The LDS Church is not started as a Protest to the Catholic Church.  Rather, the Catholic Church was in Apostasy.  The Protestant Churches, therefore, Protested the Apostasy but they did not receive the authority from Jesus Christ to create their Churches.  The LDS Church, on the other hand was organized under the direction of Jesus Christ to RESTORE the truths of the gospel and the authority of the Priesthood that was lost at the death of the last Apostle of the Early Christian Church organized by Christ on the earth.

LDS members, therefore, follow Jesus Christ in bringing to pass the eternal and immortal life of man through Jesus Christ's plan of Salvation.  This includes making Covenants, exercising Priesthood power, and following Christ's commandments.

Hope this helps.

[Vort]

1 minute ago, AbramM said:

Of course, if her loyalty is to the Latter-day Saint church then we will never agree on a church or get married.

Fair enough. Remember, the LDS viewpoint is that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints IS the kingdom of God on earth. They are literally one and the same. Rejecting the Church is the same as rejecting the kingdom of God. This is always a grave matter, and far more serious for a Latter-day Saint who is, in effect, turning his/her back on God.

In other words, from our POV, it's not a matter of loyalty to a religious sect. It's very literally a matter of loyalty to God. Sure, one can always repent. But how much less likely is it that we, being Saints and part of the body of Christ, would reject the kingdom of God and then repent and come back? It can be done, and has been done, but that's not a path I would ever recommend to anyone.

[Jane_Doe]

11 minutes ago, AbramM said:

i'm not trying to stop her being a christian, I wouldn't marry her if she wasn't a Christian. My loyalty is to God not to the church I am a member of and I thought that was true for her too. Of course, if her loyalty is to the Latter-day Saint church then we will never agree on a church or get married. .....  

i'm not trying to stop her being a christian, I wouldn't marry her if she wasn't a Christian. My loyalty is to God not to the church I am a member of and I thought that was true for her too. Of course, if her loyalty is to the Latter-day Saint church then we will never agree on a church or get married. 

Abram, the reason I'm a LDS Christian is because upon thorough study and prayer, I find the beliefs preached there for be the most True-- it is because I love Christ and am loyal to Him.  I am not a Baptist/Evangelical Christian like my husband because I am loyal to Christ above all else.  To imply that a someone (such as myself or your girlfriend) is not _____ because "their loyalty is to a church and not God" is VERY offensive and inaccurate.  

11 minutes ago, AbramM said:

I would never marry someone who didn't share my beliefs, I don't believe that is what God wants for me. 

Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14)

Ok, what beliefs are most important to you?  Let's talk about them.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[Just_A_Guy]

12 minutes ago, AbramM said:

I don't want to talk to her right now. 

Wait, wut?

[AbramM]

18 minutes ago, Vort said:

But how much less likely is it that we, being Saints and part of the body of Christ

I am a Saint and part of the body of christ as are all Christians. But it is fine if you think I am not. 

[Jane_Doe]

2 minutes ago, AbramM said:

I am a Saint and part of the body of christ as are all Christians. But it is fine if you think I am not. 

LDS Christians fully acknowledge your love of Christ and relationship with Him.  There are disagreements about some aspects of theology, but that in no way causes your love of Christ to be ignored.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[AbramM]

22 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 To imply that a someone (such as myself or your girlfriend) is not _____ because "their loyalty is to a church and not God" is VERY offensive and inaccurate.  

It wasn't my intention to offend you, sorry. 

 

22 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Ok, what beliefs are most important to you?  Let's talk about them.

I just have standard christian beliefs. The most important beliefs are obviously the ones pertaining to salvation. I believe Jesus is who he says he is the only son of God, I believe he was crucified for my sins and salvation is through faith in him alone and without that salvation is eternal damnation. 

[Jane_Doe]

 

3 minutes ago, AbramM said:

It wasn't my intention to offend you, sorry. 

Thank you. It's a big deal to have your loyalty to God acknowledged.  

3 minutes ago, AbramM said:

I just have standard christian beliefs. The most important beliefs are obviously the ones pertaining to salvation. I believe Jesus is who he says he is the only son of God, I believe he was crucified for my sins and salvation is through faith in him alone and without that salvation is eternal damnation. 

LDS 100% agree with all the bolded statements.  They are SUPER important and the core of being a Christian.

Are there any other ones / specifics you consider important and would like to talk about it?  Something more elaborate that "just standard christian beliefs".

Edited March 22, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[AbramM]

7 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

LDS Christians fully acknowledge your love of Christ and relationship with Him.  There are disagreements about some aspects of theology, but that in no way causes your love of Christ to be ignored.

I'm not being rude when I say this but I don't care what people think about me. My concern is with what God thinks of me and I know where I stand with God. 

[Just_A_Guy]

“Saints”, “body of Christ”, and “church of Christ” can be ambiguous terms in LDS discourse and scripture. 

In one sense, all sincere followers of Christ have felt some measure of His redeeming power and can be said to collectively be a part of the “church of Christ”; and this approach can be found in the Bible as well as the Book of Mormon.

But our belief is that to maximize the benefits of the salvation Christ offers in the here-and-now, and to make our salvation complete through the eternities, there are certain “ordinances” (i.e. rituals or liturgies) that one needs to go through, covenants one needs to make, and lifestyles one needs to adopt.  Thus, we also (confusingly) use the terms “saint” or “Church of God/Christ/the Lamb/Firstborn” to apply specifically to that group of individuals who have accepted the particular doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, have received (or are preparing to receive) its ordinances and covenants, and are sincerely trying to pattern their lives in accordance with the Church's teachings.  That’s the perspective @Vort is speaking from, and frankly he’s right:  if your girlfriend takes her church’s teachings at all seriously, then her relationship with the Church as an institution is probably not completely severable from her concept of her own relationship with Christ.  But again:  individuals will vary; and the best approach here is for you to just ask her.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Just_A_Guy

[AbramM]

29 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Wait, wut?

I'm mad at her so I don't want to talk to her. 

[Just_A_Guy]

1 minute ago, AbramM said:

I'm mad at her so I don't want to talk to her. 

Perfectly understandable; but . . . you're considering marriage with her? 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Just_A_Guy

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, Just_A_Guy said:

Perfectly understandable; but . . . you're talking marriage with her? 

JAG, ease up.  A young couple failed to communicate about an important topic.  It happens, we've all been there.  That's why there is an engagement time period and why you look into things (to which I give Abram points for).  It's perfectly understandable to be upset/angry in the moment.  That's why you cool down and then talk about thing.  

[estradling75]

11 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

JAG, ease up.  A young couple failed to communicate about an important topic.  It happens, we've all been there.  That's why there is an engagement time period and why you look into things (to which I give Abram points for).  It's perfectly understandable to be upset/angry in the moment.  That's why you cool down and then talk about thing.  

He is being told he needs to talk to her...  His response is "I do not want to talk to her."  If he is seriously considering her then this response is a deflection.

Because if he never talks to her again then this whole thread is a big waste of time.  If he is not wasting our time then he will at some point talk to here again and there are several things he has been advised to cover

[anatess2]

46 minutes ago, AbramM said:

I'm mad at her so I don't want to talk to her. 

Wait... you’re mad at her for things people told you over the internet???  Dude, we don’t even know if your girlfriend believes in anything the LDS Church teaches.

But yeah, if she’s a faithful LDS, then your relationship is not going to work out if your understanding is that those who follow Prophets and Apostles are not following Christ.

In any case, we can’t help you.  Only your girlfriend can tell you what she believes.

[AbramM]

33 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

He is being told he needs to talk to her...  His response is "I do not want to talk to her."  If he is seriously considering her then this response is a deflection.

Because if he never talks to her again then this whole thread is a big waste of time.  If he is not wasting our time then he will at some point talk to here again and there are several things he has been advised to cover

Obviously I am going to speak to her again 

[AbramM]

2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Wait... you’re mad at her for things people told you over the internet???  Dude, we don’t even know if your girlfriend believes in anything the LDS Church teaches.

But yeah, if she’s a faithful LDS, then your relationship is not going to work out if your understanding is that those who follow Prophets and Apostles are not following Christ.

In any case, we can’t help you.  Only your girlfriend can tell you what she believes.

Well you're not lying about your beliefs are you? Anyway I am not mad at her for her beliefs I'm mad that she hid them from me. 

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, AbramM said:

Well you're not lying about your beliefs are you? Anyway I am not mad at her for her beliefs I'm mad that she hid them from me. 

We're telling you standard beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.  We do not know your girl, and do not know the extent to which she holds these beliefs.  

As the hiding it-- I don't think this is a case of hiding anything, rather just poor communication.  Thus far everything you've stated about the specific beliefs you hold is the exact same as a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.  We're both Christians, hold that relationship with Christ, etc.  

[AbramM]

1 hour ago, Jane_Doe said:

 Are there any other ones / specifics you consider important and would like to talk about it?  Something more elaborate that "just standard christian beliefs".

There is so much that we disagree on based on the thing that MannersMatter shared with me. I don't know where to begin it's like 2 separate religions with a shared person of Jesus Christ but I'm not even sure that our beliefs about Jesus would match. 

[Jane_Doe]

Just now, AbramM said:

There is so much that we disagree on based on the thing that MannersMatter shared with me. I don't know where to begin it's like 2 separate religions with a shared person of Jesus Christ but I'm not even sure that our beliefs about Jesus would match. 

Beliefs about Jesus and Atonement match.  Would you like to talk about any of the 13 Articles in particular?   (It seems logical to start talking about 1 point where your most interest/concern is, rather than throwing an entire school bus of information at you).  

[AbramM]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

“Saints”, “body of Christ”, and “church of Christ” can be ambiguous terms in LDS discourse and scripture. 

In one sense, all sincere followers of Christ have felt some measure of His redeeming power and can be said to collectively be a part of the “church of Christ”; and this approach can be found in the Bible as well as the Book of Mormon.

But our belief is that to maximize the benefits of the salvation Christ offers in the here-and-now, and to make our salvation complete through the eternities, there are certain “ordinances” (i.e. rituals or liturgies) that one needs to go through, covenants one needs to make, and lifestyles one needs to adopt.  Thus, we also (confusingly) use the terms “saint” or “Church of God/Christ/the Lamb/Firstborn” to apply specifically to that group of individuals who have accepted the particular doctrines of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, have received (or are preparing to receive) its ordinances and covenants, and are sincerely trying to pattern their lives in accordance with the Church's teachings.  That’s the perspective @Vort is speaking from, and frankly he’s right:  if your girlfriend takes her church’s teachings at all seriously, then her relationship with the Church as an institution is probably not completely severable from her concept of her own relationship with Christ.  But again:  individuals will vary; and the best approach here is for you to just ask her.

Okay well if you believe that only members of your church are Saints and partake of the Body of Christ which is the church, then that is fine. I know that I am saved and I partake in the Body of Christ. That's all I can say.