Seminary Curriculum switching to Come Follow Me.


Jane_Doe

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8 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

I doubt it has much to do with the collective experience thing.  It more than likely has to do with the accreditation. Seminary is a fully accredited program, and those who complete it are eligible for missionary service in areas that have stricter requirements, such as Brazil--to serve in Brazil, you must have completed a four year accredited religious training program. To open Seminary up to homeschool would require tracking the number of hours taught, that lesson materials are covered, etc etc.  It would be an enormous administrative burden, and a handful of homeschoolers shirking the requirements even a little could put the whole accreditation at risk. Given the costs, benefits, and risks, I'd be surprised to see a homeschool seminary option.  I think online will be as close as it gets.

 

Just now, carlimac said:

Well, then kids who are homeschooled just wouldn't be sent to Brazil. I really don't think it's that serious of an issue. If people can meet all the requirements of Homeschool, they can keep track of how many hours their kids attend Seminary. Again, why can stakes outside Utah do it but Utah can't?

For the record, my homeschooled son just returned from serving in Brazil for two years. But he did go to early-morning seminary, and yes, his seminary graduation was required for his service in Brazil. (He received a high school diploma from our local public school, if that is of any interest.)

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37 minutes ago, carlimac said:

Well, then kids who are homeschooled just wouldn't be sent to Brazil. I really don't think it's that serious of an issue. If people can meet all the requirements of Homeschool, they can keep track of how many hours their kids attend Seminary. Again, why can stakes outside Utah do it but Utah can't?

Early morning vs release time seminary is a completely different issue than home school seminary. I think you may have crossed sub conversations.

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1 hour ago, MarginOfError said:

Early morning vs release time seminary is a completely different issue than home school seminary. I think you may have crossed sub conversations.

No it’s all part of the same ball of gum. Homeschooled and public school kids outside of Utah go to early morning seminary. Why can’t the same exact seminary program be administered to homeschooled kids in Utah? One poster said home schooled families in Utah were having a hard time figuring out when to have seminary. My answer is 6AM like everywhere else. Gather a bunch of homeschooling families together and have a teacher called by the stake or two or three stakes if the students are compiled from that many stakes. Is there some rule that the only Seminary taught in Utah has to be taught by a professional teacher? 

About accreditation- are ALL seminary programs accredited? If not, which are and which aren’t? If they all are, why would accreditation a problem for homeschooled families if they are taking EMS? Doesn’t make sense. 

If only RTS is accredited, does that mean there are no missionaries called to Brazil from , say, New York  or Pennsylvania or Kansas where RTS isn’t an option?

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1 hour ago, carlimac said:

No it’s all part of the same ball of gum. Homeschooled and public school kids outside of Utah go to early morning seminary. Why can’t the same exact seminary program be administered to homeschooled kids in Utah? One poster said home schooled families in Utah were having a hard time figuring out when to have seminary. My answer is 6AM like everywhere else. Gather a bunch of homeschooling families together and have a teacher called by the stake or two or three stakes if the students are compiled from that many stakes. Is there some rule that the only Seminary taught in Utah has to be taught by a professional teacher? 

About accreditation- are ALL seminary programs accredited? If not, which are and which aren’t? If they all are, why would accreditation a problem for homeschooled families if they are taking EMS? Doesn’t make sense. 

If only RTS is accredited, does that mean there are no missionaries called to Brazil from , say, New York  or Pennsylvania or Kansas where RTS isn’t an option?

I'm not quite sure I understand the issue, carlimac.  I don't know how they do seminary in Utah.  Are you saying that in Utah, homeschooled children cannot attend seminary with the public schooled kids?  So where do they go?

From my understanding, all Stake-registered seminary classes are accredited by the Church.  So, you can't just form your own Seminary class - your Stake leadership have to register it and call someone to teach it.  So, maybe you can make it happen by talking to your Stake leadership?

Edited by anatess2
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9 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I'm not quite sure I understand the issue, carlimac.  I don't know how they do seminary in Utah.  Are you saying that in Utah, homeschooled children cannot attend seminary with the public schooled kids?  So where do they go?

I'm pretty sure that @carlimac is saying that almost all Utah (LDS) high school students who go to seminary attend it as a "release-time" class. That is to say, these students literally get an hour off during the school day to go attend seminary, just like any other class. In effect, for purposes of attendance during the day, seminary becomes one of their high school classes. I believe that carlimac is arguing that Utah kids and their parents who don't want to take up a valuable class slot could just do what most seminary kids outside of Utah do: Attend early-morning seminary. I can't see why a stake president couldn't set up an early-morning seminary class for those who wanted it, or maybe talk with three or four presidents of adjacent stakes and get full early-morning seminary classes for each grade.

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2 hours ago, carlimac said:

No it’s all part of the same ball of gum. Homeschooled and public school kids outside of Utah go to early morning seminary. Why can’t the same exact seminary program be administered to homeschooled kids in Utah? One poster said home schooled families in Utah were having a hard time figuring out when to have seminary. My answer is 6AM like everywhere else. Gather a bunch of homeschooling families together and have a teacher called by the stake or two or three stakes if the students are compiled from that many stakes. Is there some rule that the only Seminary taught in Utah has to be taught by a professional teacher? 

About accreditation- are ALL seminary programs accredited? If not, which are and which aren’t? If they all are, why would accreditation a problem for homeschooled families if they are taking EMS? Doesn’t make sense. 

If only RTS is accredited, does that mean there are no missionaries called to Brazil from , say, New York  or Pennsylvania or Kansas where RTS isn’t an option?

All seminary programs (at least in North America) are accredited. They have strict requirements about the number of hours that must be spent in class, and the evaluation of content learned. I'm not sure if it applies to seminary, but Institute classes must be taught by someone with at least a bachelor's degree. (Their can be some exceptions, but I won't get into that here).

I brought up accreditation as a reason why home schoolers outside of Utah couldn't run their own seminary classes. I had no intention of putting it forward as a reason that students couldn't use early morning seminary in Utah.

However, accreditation may be part of the reason. Why validate a program to be run by volunteers in an area where professional teachers are available? Cost of teacher salaries and buildings may be another component.

I'll also note that early morning seminary programs may be run in Utah. I believe the restriction is that early morning seminary programs are not run in locations where release time is available.

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57 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I'm not quite sure I understand the issue, carlimac.  I don't know how they do seminary in Utah.  Are you saying that in Utah, homeschooled children cannot attend seminary with the public schooled kids?  So where do they go?

From my understanding, all Stake-registered seminary classes are accredited by the Church.  So, you can't just form your own Seminary class - your Stake leadership have to register it and call someone to teach it.  So, maybe you can make it happen by talking to your Stake leadership?

This is basically the discussion: 

Connie:I have longed to see seminary less entrenched in the public school schedule, especially here in Utah. It is incredibly hard for homeschoolers and those who chose alternative education to find a good time for seminary for their kids here in my area. " 

Carlimac: " Why not do it like the rest of the world does it. 6 AM weekdays? 

Johnson Jones:  Or online home study

Vort: "Problem is seminary is a collective school class, unless you do home study" ( he thinks it's not  a good option). He's not sure if early morning seminary is available in Utah

Carlimac: "I don't see why they couldn't" do early morning in Utah. Remembers people and situations where it indeed happened. And then blah, blah homeschoolers just don't want to give up their ability to sleep in every day,  she hates EMS for her own kids,  blahbity blah

Estradling: Lives in Utah and drops his son off to early morning seminary ( Yes it does in fact exist !)

Then Annatess enters with her take on how well seminary works for her family and all the Floridians and Filipinos at 5:30 AM and Carlimac says good for you but it's not all so rosey up north where she resides.And then some silliness occurs, blah blah blah- whatever. 

THEN MOE enters the conversation confusing Carlimac about accreditation and why it makes it not possible for homeschoolers to do seminary and they can't go on missions to Brazil. carlimac goes Huh?? Why can't they? And what is this accreditation thingy and then maybe homeschoolers just shouldn't go to Brazil on missions then. 

And then MOE goes " What are you talking about? You MUST be confused. And I go- NOT So fast Buster YOU are the one who brought up accreditation. So who gets this credit thing and who doesn't and if they don't they should so everybody can go to Brazil on a mission. 

And then Annatess asks Carlimac sweetly if maybe she could ask her stake president to set up a class (It would be accredited by the way- whew! We can go to Brazil.). But carlimac is a tad confused (again) because she doesn't live in Utah. She lives in Maryland and her kids already go to seminary at 5:50 AM!! 

Then Vort saves the day by explaining very clearly what Carlimac meant. 

But we're all still confused by this accreditation business and afraid we might not get to go to Brazil. May we should go to Florida or the Philippines instead.

 

Does that make sense?

 

And then MOE beats carlimac to the gun and attempts to explain accreditation before she can post. But carlimac still doesn't get what it has to do with homeschoolers taking early morning seminary in Utah. Maybe  all Utah homeschoolers should move to Florida where it works wonderfully to get up early for seminary. But not Maryland...or Brazil.

 

 

Edited by carlimac
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2 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

All seminary programs (at least in North America) are accredited. They have strict requirements about the number of hours that must be spent in class, and the evaluation of content learned. I'm not sure if it applies to seminary, but Institute classes must be taught by someone with at least a bachelor's degree. (Their can be some exceptions, but I won't get into that here).

I brought up accreditation as a reason why home schoolers outside of Utah couldn't run their own seminary classes. I had no intention of putting it forward as a reason that students couldn't use early morning seminary in Utah.

However, accreditation may be part of the reason. Why validate a program to be run by volunteers in an area where professional teachers are available? Cost of teacher salaries and buildings may be another component.

I'll also note that early morning seminary programs may be run in Utah. I believe the restriction is that early morning seminary programs are not run in locations where release time is available.

Also accredited in the Philippines if that helps.

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19 hours ago, carlimac said:

How about at 6:00 AM like just about everywhere in the world  except Utah (and parts of several other western states). 

I would absolutely love that! And that's pretty much what i mean when i say i wish it wasn't so entrenched with the public school. Even thinking of my own experience in high school. It would have been wonderful to have early morning seminary and then get to take some more extra curricular classes.

I don't know about other areas of Utah, but there is very little concession made here for alternative education styles. We are pretty much expected to gain intimate knowledge of the public school schedule, which is frankly quite asinine, and never fits in very well with the online school our kids go to. There is one early morning class across the two high schools in my area. They make it very clear to any who ask that that class is reserved for public schooled kids who need to take extra courses and cannot do released time. They do offer home study but only if you make it clear that there is no time your kid can possibly attend during one of their class periods. There is also an online class, but they don't even mention that option unless you've gone a while doing home study. The online class is awful.

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2 hours ago, carlimac said:

This is basically the discussion: 

Connie:I have longed to see seminary less entrenched in the public school schedule, especially here in Utah. It is incredibly hard for homeschoolers and those who chose alternative education to find a good time for seminary for their kids here in my area. " 

Carlimac: " Why not do it like the rest of the world does it. 6 AM weekdays? 

Johnson Jones:  Or online home study

Vort: "Problem is seminary is a collective school class, unless you do home study" ( he thinks it's not  a good option). He's not sure if early morning seminary is available in Utah

Carlimac: "I don't see why they couldn't" do early morning in Utah. Remembers people and situations where it indeed happened. And then blah, blah homeschoolers just don't want to give up their ability to sleep in every day,  she hates EMS for her own kids,  blahbity blah

Estradling: Lives in Utah and drops his son off to early morning seminary ( Yes it does in fact exist !)

Then Annatess enters with her take on how well seminary works for her family and all the Floridians and Filipinos at 5:30 AM and Carlimac says good for you but it's not all so rosey up north where she resides.And then some silliness occurs, blah blah blah- whatever. 

THEN MOE enters the conversation confusing Carlimac about accreditation and why it makes it not possible for homeschoolers to do seminary and they can't go on missions to Brazil. carlimac goes Huh?? Why can't they? And what is this accreditation thingy and then maybe homeschoolers just shouldn't go to Brazil on missions then. 

And then MOE goes " What are you talking about? You MUST be confused. And I go- NOT So fast Buster YOU are the one who brought up accreditation. So who gets this credit thing and who doesn't and if they don't they should so everybody can go to Brazil on a mission. 

And then Annatess asks Carlimac sweetly if maybe she could ask her stake president to set up a class (It would be accredited by the way- whew! We can go to Brazil.). But carlimac is a tad confused (again) because she doesn't live in Utah. She lives in Maryland and her kids already go to seminary at 5:50 AM!! 

Then Vort saves the day by explaining very clearly what Carlimac meant. 

But we're all still confused by this accreditation business and afraid we might not get to go to Brazil. May we should go to Florida or the Philippines instead.

 

Does that make sense?

 

And then MOE beats carlimac to the gun and attempts to explain accreditation before she can post. But carlimac still doesn't get what it has to do with homeschoolers taking early morning seminary in Utah. Maybe  all Utah homeschoolers should move to Florida where it works wonderfully to get up early for seminary. But not Maryland...or Brazil.

 

 

I’m just floored that somebody described my post as “sweetly”.  I’m now feeling mushy inside. 😃

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On 3/22/2019 at 10:06 AM, anatess2 said:

Well, that sucks for us.  My son just had NT last school year.  So if he's gonna get NT again in the Fall, then they switch in January 2020?  So, he graduates seminary missing half a book?  Or do they not graduate at the end of school term anymore?

The nice thing is that he can continue reading where he leaves off in May and keep studying in Sunday School. This is a fantastic change but it will be a small transition to this new system. Also, I am excited to read the same book of scripture with my son's as they move up through High School.

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On 3/25/2019 at 5:30 PM, Vort said:

I'm pretty sure that @carlimac is saying that almost all Utah (LDS) high school students who go to seminary attend it as a "release-time" class. That is to say, these students literally get an hour off during the school day to go attend seminary, just like any other class. In effect, for purposes of attendance during the day, seminary becomes one of their high school classes. I believe that carlimac is arguing that Utah kids and their parents who don't want to take up a valuable class slot could just do what most seminary kids outside of Utah do: Attend early-morning seminary. I can't see why a stake president couldn't set up an early-morning seminary class for those who wanted it, or maybe talk with three or four presidents of adjacent stakes and get full early-morning seminary classes for each grade.

With the number of kids that attend Seminary in Utah and Idaho, release time is really the only option. Also, why should all the kids be forced to take early morning Cemetery? That would just lead to kids not doing it at all.

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8 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

With the number of kids that attend Seminary in Utah and Idaho, release time is really the only option. Also, why should all the kids be forced to take early morning Cemetery? That would just lead to kids not doing it at all.

Why do people keep assuming that Release Time and Early Morning options are exclusive things?

 

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45 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

With the number of kids that attend Seminary in Utah and Idaho, release time is really the only option. Also, why should all the kids be forced to take early morning Cemetery? That would just lead to kids not doing it at all.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that all Utah children be forced into the early-morning option.

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1 minute ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

I have heard that argument before, so there are some people suggesting it.

To clarify: I don't think anyone on this forum was suggesting that all Utah children be forced into the early-morning option.

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On 3/28/2019 at 10:30 AM, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

With the number of kids that attend Seminary in Utah and Idaho, release time is really the only option. Also, why should all the kids be forced to take early morning Cemetery? That would just lead to kids not doing it at all.

then why are there different standards for Utah/idaho kids and the rest of the world? Just have the kids go to their ward buildings at  6 Am and divide up into classes just like they do everywhere else? It can't be that hard. 

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20 minutes ago, carlimac said:

then why are there different standards for Utah/idaho kids and the rest of the world? Just have the kids go to their ward buildings at  6 Am and divide up into classes just like they do everywhere else? It can't be that hard. 

There are not different standards. There are different ways of meeting the (one) standard. I disagree with EM that "release time is really the only option"—I don't see why every stake in Utah couldn't operate its own early-morning seminary, just like almost every other stake in the world not located in the Mormon Corridor—but that is not the issue.

In Utah and Idaho, many children have the option of attending seminary during their regular school day. When this can be an option, why would anyone seek to disallow it? How does it hurt you or your children if the children of Utahans attend seminary in the middle of the day instead of early morning? It's more convenient for them, they want to do it, and the schools are willing to accommodate. Where's the problem? If they offered release-time seminary around here, I expect almost all the kids in the stake (including mine) would want/have wanted to attend.

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27 minutes ago, carlimac said:

then why are there different standards for Utah/idaho kids and the rest of the world?

Because release time is better. The church is trying to expand release time where it can. My old stake president told stories about they were always extending proposals to the Las Vegas school board to allow release time, but it kept getting shot down.

I think release time is the preferred... but just can’t be done everywhere

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14 minutes ago, Vort said:

If they offered release-time seminary around here, I expect almost all the kids in the stake (including mine) would want/have wanted to attend.

Same here simply for the plain fact that there's bus service to the high school.

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The problem with release time is the Church does not control it.... the schools do.  The schools have to allow the students to attend during school hours.

Complaining that the church will not "allow" release time is to focus your ire on the wrong target...  It is your local school that is not allowing release time, it is your local School board that you need to go yell at...  But as with any local politics you have to show that it benefits to them or the local community at large is more then the effort it takes to make it happen (Which usually does not happen if the LDS numbers are small)

Since this problem boils down to a numbers problem that is were the churches focus should rightly be... And the church's missionary work is its response

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