without_you

Is getting pregnant from a sperm donor not allowed in the church?

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2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Rereading this answer, I feel a rant coming on.

I'm surprised and maybe a little bit appalled at the lack of understanding among the Saints of what are really very basic, foundational beliefs. We are not sealed to Dear Old Dad and to Mommy Kiss-kiss. The nature of the sealing between parent and child is that the child is born in the parents' covenant. The wording of the sealing ceremony makes this blindingly obvious: One who is sealed in the temple to his parents has exactly the same status with one who was born in the [his parents'] covenant.

YOU CANNOT SEAL A CHILD TO AN INDIVIDUAL. This is, or should be, so obvious as not to need explanation, at least among the faithful Saints. Sealing a child to his/her parents means placing that child within the bonds of his/her parents' marital covenant. No parents, both mother and father? No marital covenant, which means nothing to seal the child within.

Non-members cannot be expected to understand this. Children and newly baptized members cannot be expected to know this. But if mature Saints with long practice in the Church don't know this basic thing, then somewhere along the line there has been an important failure to communicate very basic, foundational stuff. Merely going to the temple and paying attention to what is being said should be enough to fill in such knowledge gaps.

No offense intended to anyone reading this. Just venting some frustration.

/rant

I think you generated your own consternation and then resolved it just now.

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49 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

There is a provision in the Handbook for when the natural parent cannot be contacted. The letter from the stake president to the First Presidency would need to detail the efforts made to find the natural parent.

The other option is for the step parent to adopt the child, in which case the issue is moot.

Temple presidents don't actually have any authority to say if the sealing may take place or not, barring some very obvious and egregious worthiness issues manifest when the family arrives. But that's a different matter than step parents and children, etc.

Hopefully the adoption does happen...all children need a father and a mother. :)

I am not disagreeing with you as I am not an expert, and I know this is getting a bit off topic, but Temple Presidents hold Keys. Do the sealers not report to them? I know that the calls of sealers are under the direction of the President of the church, but is the Temple President also not given the sealing power upon his setting apart? Someone needs to make sure that from an administrative and spiritual point of view that all of the conditions for a sealing have been met...I would assume that much if not all of this is done at the stake level, but I would think the temple would have individuals in the sealing office also double check. Wouldn't the temple presidency counsel the sealers if they had any questions...implying that the sealers report to them? Again, sorry for going off topic.

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5 minutes ago, scottyg said:

I know that the calls of sealers are under the direction of the President of the church, but is the Temple President also not given the sealing power upon his setting apart? Someone needs to make sure that from an administrative and spiritual point of view that all of the conditions for a sealing have been met...I would assume that much if not all of this is done at the stake level, but I would think the temple would have individuals in the sealing office also double check.

This is a basic question, one I should know. But I don't. Nevertheless, I find the question interesting. Some people are authorized to set others apart to offices that they themselves do not hold. An obvious example is a bishop setting apart a Relief Society or Primary president.

But it's more than that. Consider: A stake president can ordain a stake patriarch, though the stake president himself does not hold the Priesthood office of Patriarch and (as far as I know) cannot give Church-recorded patriarchal blessings. (Any patriarch can give a patriarchal blessing; that's what a father's blessing is. But these blessings are not recorded by the Church.) This is reminiscent of the Three Witnesses of the Book of Mormon who, though not themselves apostles, were nevertheless empowered to call and ordain the Twelve.

I find this interesting, because we normally think of Priesthood ordinations and settings apart as being done by someone with "equal or greater authority" in some sense. Perhaps that is not always the best model to use.

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1 hour ago, scottyg said:

Hopefully the adoption does happen...all children need a father and a mother. :)

I am not disagreeing with you as I am not an expert, and I know this is getting a bit off topic, but Temple Presidents hold Keys. Do the sealers not report to them? I know that the calls of sealers are under the direction of the President of the church, but is the Temple President also not given the sealing power upon his setting apart? Someone needs to make sure that from an administrative and spiritual point of view that all of the conditions for a sealing have been met...I would assume that much if not all of this is done at the stake level, but I would think the temple would have individuals in the sealing office also double check. Wouldn't the temple presidency counsel the sealers if they had any questions...implying that the sealers report to them? Again, sorry for going off topic.

These special cases are authorized by the First Presidency. The sealing don't happen unless those being sealed present the letter from the First Presidency. 

For the more routine sealings, authorization (technically, recommendation) comes from the bishop and stake president. I've never heard of a sealing being denied by a temple president or sealer except for lack of proper paper work. Likewise, I've never heard of a sealing being performed because the temple president declared it acceptable absent those recommendations.

But, if a couple presented to the temple with a joint tucked behind their ear, that's a situation where the temple president might put on the brakes.

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4 hours ago, Vort said:

This is a basic question, one I should know. But I don't. Nevertheless, I find the question interesting. Some people are authorized to set others apart to offices that they themselves do not hold. An obvious example is a bishop setting apart a Relief Society or Primary president.

But it's more than that. Consider: A stake president can ordain a stake patriarch, though the stake president himself does not hold the Priesthood office of Patriarch and (as far as I know) cannot give Church-recorded patriarchal blessings. (Any patriarch can give a patriarchal blessing; that's what a father's blessing is. But these blessings are not recorded by the Church.) This is reminiscent of the Three Witnesses of the Book of Mormon who, though not themselves apostles, were nevertheless empowered to call and ordain the Twelve.

I find this interesting, because we normally think of Priesthood ordinations and settings apart as being done by someone with "equal or greater authority" in some sense. Perhaps that is not always the best model to use.

FWIW, the three witnesses are labeled “apostles” in D&C 18:9.  

I don’t think it’s matter of the priesthood holder doing the ordaining, not having the inherent priesthood power to do those things (give patriarchal blessings, preside over the Relief Society, etc).  It’s just that their superiors in the Church hierarchy have specifically instructed them *not* to minister in those particular ways at this time; and I imagine those restrictions could hypothetically be lifted if circumstances warranted and the Lord so instructed. 

As for your “rant” about people not understanding the ramifications of parent-child “sealings”—this is what happens when we make a habit of dumbing down temple doctrine so that we talk about “being together forever” at the expense of ideas like “inheritance” and “lineage” and “kingship” and “patriarchal order”.  A single mother who is convinced that a sealing is the only way she can “be with” her son for eternity, will naturally be distraught when she is told that that ordinance is not immediately available to her.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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16 hours ago, Vort said:

This is a basic question, one I should know. But I don't. Nevertheless, I find the question interesting. Some people are authorized to set others apart to offices that they themselves do not hold. An obvious example is a bishop setting apart a Relief Society or Primary president.

But it's more than that. Consider: A stake president can ordain a stake patriarch, though the stake president himself does not hold the Priesthood office of Patriarch and (as far as I know) cannot give Church-recorded patriarchal blessings. (Any patriarch can give a patriarchal blessing; that's what a father's blessing is. But these blessings are not recorded by the Church.) This is reminiscent of the Three Witnesses of the Book of Mormon who, though not themselves apostles, were nevertheless empowered to call and ordain the Twelve.

I find this interesting, because we normally think of Priesthood ordinations and settings apart as being done by someone with "equal or greater authority" in some sense. Perhaps that is not always the best model to use.

True, I didn't think of it that way. Something similar is the calling and setting apart of other church leaders like bishops. The stake president is a high priest, and may choose to ordain an elder a high priest when needed, but he cannot ordain a man to the office or calling of bishop of his own accord. As the handbook states, before a new bishop may be interviewed, called, ordained, or set apart, his recommendation must be approved by the First Presidency. The stake president may extend the calling after he receives written approval from the First Presidency. With this approval, the stake president may also ordain and set apart a bishop after ward members have given a sustaining vote. The approval of the First Presidency is also required before a stake president may release a bishop. :)

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I had a friend who was in the same situation looks wise, very tall too I think 6' didn't like makeup either, and was a great person very strong and a good testimony, but I being a little vain didn't think she would have the opportunity to get married in this life. I was so wrong to think that, she married a lovely young man and he informed me that he liked her as soon as he met her, mostly he said he was looking to marry someone of good values and that was the most important thing to him in a wife. I was 31 at the time and after moving to another state to gett engaged to a guy who decided to treat me horribly and didn't want to go to the temple... He was a member.  I knew I couldn't marry him after one too many lies, I wallowed a little in my 

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Seeming fate to remain single, at 33 I decided to use the healing power of the gospel, and especially the spirit of the temple, I volunteered to become a temple worker, and decided on a path to a really high paying career in the Air Force to be able to help my siblings and nephews financially. I gave up my righteous desires for Husband and children to the Lord. Right before I was to move back and start my enlistment process in earnest. I got a letter of recommendation from the temple president. I prayed one last time for a marriage and family and the next day met my husband! While maybe my story will make her a little sad/bitter, I think the answer lies in the Gospel and the Temple. She can plan however to take in foster children and such I think. But she needs to be practical there are many abused and special needs children she could help, but not with long work hours. I wish your friend will find peace. The temple is the best place for finding peace. 

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Circumstances do not change the commandments of God.  It's really that simple.  And I don't understand the need to create a new life under less than ideal circumstances, when there are already thousands of kids living in less than ideal circumstances who are begging for a better situation that someone could provide, whether that be volunteerism or fostering or just being a big brother/big sister.   One option just seems selfish compared to the other.

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