without_you

How am I supposed to control my anger when people really push me to the edge?

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Anger is the display of temper. The Lord cautioned His Saints to control their anger (Matt. 5:22). Neither parent nor child should abuse others in the family. In the scriptures, anger often has the figurative image of fire (2 Ne. 15:25; D&C 1:13).

And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell, Gen. 4:5.

The Lord is slow to anger, and of great mercy, Ps. 145:8.

A soft answer turneth away wrath, Prov. 15:1.

I know that not everyone out there is Mormon, and they don't have the same standards as we do. Today, some dude just bullied me because...well racism I guess that's what it was based on all the name calling he called me and all the rude names he said about me. I waited for him to punch me first so I could counter it. That way, I could call it "Counter offense, self defense", and I would be in less trouble with the police and I can explain that to a lawyer, not that I've gotten in trouble before but I know how the law works. I really provoked my bully to hit me. I guess he wanted to but didn't because many people were around. But I am guessing this kind of stuff will happen again sometime, in the future. I don't wanna give in to anger,  I have experience in MMA and Muay Boran. We've always been told not to fight outside the ring. There was a quote from a shaolin monk "The way of kung-fu is to avoid all conflicts". 

Jesus said to be merciful and love your neighbor?

But what should I do when fists start flying?

What should I do when he attempts to hit me first?

Should I just be passive and run?

If I run, next time he will call me a coward, I've seen this happen on Netflix. Where the bully chases the bullied. 

I always ask myself, what would Jesus do? But I'm not Jesus. 

Should I defend myself? I couldn't find any doctrine about self-defense...but I know that the Nephites did what they had to do...

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9 hours ago, without_you said:

What should I do when he attempts to hit me first?

Dodge and block. Nothing is more infuriating to someone that really wants to punch you than not being able to. 

9 hours ago, without_you said:

I always ask myself, what would Jesus do? But I'm not Jesus. 

Yeah, not having the ability to send them to outer darkness does make it harder. 

 

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Guest Mores
9 hours ago, without_you said:

Today, some dude just bullied me because...well racism I guess that's what it was based on all the name calling he called me and all the rude names he said about me.

Comedienne Margaret Cho said:
 

Quote

You know how we say it's not the heat, it's the humidity?  Well, to me it's not about the racism, it's the stupidity.  

The guy called me a "Nip".  Can you believe that?  So I said,"Nips are Japanese. I'm Korean.  I'm a Gook.  Get your Redneck to English dictionary out and look it up."

Now, this may not apply to you since I don't know what race you are.  But the point is that most of the time racism is really rooted in stupidity.  I'd feel sorry for them like I'd feel for a kid who doesn't know better.

The other principle is that instead of taking offense at words, figure out how to sharpen your verbal saw.  You've been trained in physical conflict.  But when you say that you're supposed to avoid all conflict, what are you doing to avoid it?  Part of that MUST be to learn how to take a verbal assault by returning fire with your own verbal assault.

First step has to be about taking the moral high ground.  This cannot be mistaken for "virtue signalling".  You'll need to look that up.  But figure out how to balance things just right to point out what the right thing to do is.

Jesus said to turn the other cheek.  But the Book of Mormon also says that if ye are not guilty of the first offense, neither of the second, he will not suffer us to be destroyed by our enemies.

Be a big enough man to realize that this bully really is a small human being.  You're big enough to take a few insults.  If you're not, then that's your problem.  They're just words.  Fight back with kindness if you must.  It would look something like this:

Bully: Hey <<racial epithet>> what the <<blah blah insult, taunt, blah>>

You: <<compassionate face, body, and tone>> How have you been hurt in the past that makes you into this kind of bully?  Can I be your friend and help you be a better person?  Whether you recognize it or not, this is not good behavior.  And if you continue down this road, you will not be a good person.

This is most effective when there are MANY people around to hear this.  Understand that most bullies are either trained to be bullies or they become bullies because they really have been hurt in the past.  If he has been hurt, help salve that hurt.  If he's been trained, you need to discover how to untrain him.

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Remember Jesus had a very specific mission to perform here on earth,  but He was also the God of the Old Testament, and lead people into battle.  Remember also that Mormon said that if all men were like Captain Moroni the very powers of heaven would be shaken. You might find it helpful to study Captain Moroni. 

Sometimes fighting is the best thing and sometimes calm and polite is the best way.

Just this week my 17 yr old son was mugged by some other teens.  Two teens approached him and asked for the time. When he took out his phone they grabbed it and started walking away from him.

He told me he was furious but felt he should be polite but firm. He followed them and persisted in asking for his phone. 

Apparently they got annoyed because one turned around and punched him. He continued to ask for his phone (as his mom I'm not surprised, Lol, he's always been persistent.)  

At this point three other guys approached. One of the new guys gave his phone back (we think because the screen is cracked.)  They looked at his headphones, said they were cheap, made him turn out his pockets...they were empty and then they left. 

My point in sharing this is, my son and I agreed that he followed the Spirit. Even if he could have fought the first two, he couldn't have handled all five. When it started he did know there were five! And he did get his phone back.

I told him perhaps another time the Spirit will urge him to fight back. Every situation is different. 

So my advice to follow the Spirit. Being angry is not bad, it's what you do with your anger that can be bad. 

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Guest MormonGator

"A short temper will make a fool of you."-Bruce Lee. 

I'm a lifelong student of various martial arts. I've never been a fight in my adult life, for the record. Simply put, you just have to make the choice to control your attitude and behavior. It's that easy. 

There is nothing wrong with defending yourself. In fact, sometimes it's necessary, but very rarely. If you find yourself in situations where you need to defend yourself all the time, then you are the problem for putting yourself in that situation. 

Finally, there is a practical matter. Let's say you are that kind of guy who likes getting into bar fights, yells at his wife in public, has a short temper. Eventually, you'll mouth off to the wrong person and get assaulted. Badly. Or worse, you'll punch a guy with a heart condition. He'll die of a heart attack and guess what? You'll be looking at manslaughter charges, sent to jail, and very quickly you'll learn how tough you really are. Yes, that sort of thing does happen. 

Hint: it won't end well when you get into a fight with a homicidal biker in a jail cell.  

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I have a major pet peeve with people who can't control their temper. 

Edited by MormonGator

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2 hours ago, Mores said:

The other principle is that instead of taking offense at words, figure out how to sharpen your verbal saw. 

@without_you, memorize this:  "How dare you insinuate that I can tolerate such a diabolical insolence from a scrap of humanity such as you?  In other words <insert what you want to say here, e.g. shut up, or I'm not a nip, I'm a gook>".  ;)

 

 

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On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 11:50 PM, without_you said:

I know that not everyone out there is Mormon, and they don't have the same standards as we do. Today, some dude just bullied me because...well racism I guess that's what it was based on all the name calling he called me and all the rude names he said about me. I waited for him to punch me first so I could counter it. That way, I could call it "Counter offense, self defense", and I would be in less trouble with the police and I can explain that to a lawyer, not that I've gotten in trouble before but I know how the law works.

Be aware that when the cops arrive and are getting both sides of the story, the person to be arrested is most likely the one who's the least beat up, since they may have no way of knowing the real story.  My source on that?  A probation officer I was chatting with about this stuff.

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 11:50 PM, without_you said:

Jesus said to be merciful and love your neighbor?

But what should I do when fists start flying?

Defend yourself, but only use as much force as it takes, no more.

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 11:50 PM, without_you said:

If I run, next time he will call me a coward, I've seen this happen on Netflix. Where the bully chases the bullied. 

Not that I'm saying you should always run, but I don't know that taking moral cues form Netflix has much value.  I've seen a lot of things happen on Netflix that don't really apply to reality.

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 11:50 PM, without_you said:

I always ask myself, what would Jesus do? But I'm not Jesus. 

But we are supposed to try to be like Him.

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On 4/4/2019 at 9:50 PM, without_you said:

Anger is the display of temper. The Lord cautioned His Saints to control their anger (Matt. 5:22). Neither parent nor child should abuse others in the family. In the scriptures, anger often has the figurative image of fire (2 Ne. 15:25; D&C 1:13).

And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell, Gen. 4:5.

The Lord is slow to anger, and of great mercy, Ps. 145:8.

A soft answer turneth away wrath, Prov. 15:1.

I know that not everyone out there is Mormon, and they don't have the same standards as we do. Today, some dude just bullied me because...well racism I guess that's what it was based on all the name calling he called me and all the rude names he said about me. I waited for him to punch me first so I could counter it. That way, I could call it "Counter offense, self defense", and I would be in less trouble with the police and I can explain that to a lawyer, not that I've gotten in trouble before but I know how the law works. I really provoked my bully to hit me. I guess he wanted to but didn't because many people were around. But I am guessing this kind of stuff will happen again sometime, in the future. I don't wanna give in to anger,  I have experience in MMA and Muay Boran. We've always been told not to fight outside the ring. There was a quote from a shaolin monk "The way of kung-fu is to avoid all conflicts". 

Jesus said to be merciful and love your neighbor?

But what should I do when fists start flying?

What should I do when he attempts to hit me first?

Should I just be passive and run?

If I run, next time he will call me a coward, I've seen this happen on Netflix. Where the bully chases the bullied. 

I always ask myself, what would Jesus do? But I'm not Jesus. 

Should I defend myself? I couldn't find any doctrine about self-defense...but I know that the Nephites did what they had to do...

To begin, and I mean no offense, but I am having a hard time believing this is actually an issue in light of the following statement, "If I run, next time he will call me a coward, I've seen this happen on Netflix. Where the bully chases the bullied." (emphasis mine)

There are times when anger is justified. In the Book of Mormon we read about Captain Moroni and what is said regarding if all humans had been and were like unto him the very powers of hell would have been frustrated. We also know that Captain Moroni was "angry" and rightfully so when he put his life on the line to save the Nephites and then you have a Nephite who wants to be king and creates a type of civil war.

Each situation should be handled according to the situation. You shared, "I really provoked my bully to hit me." If you provoke, by law you would still be protected if they move to physical aggression and then you protect yourself. By spiritual law, you provoked, and are held accountable before the Lord, and have need of repentance. Every situation will be different, some will have the same principles. Discover the principles by which we are governed and you will act appropriately. It is never wise to "provoke" your enemy. It is wise to use strategy.

No one can avoid all conflicts. In the Book of Mormon, the Nephites were told the Lord would tell them when to fight and when to run, and we can also see when the Lord would tell them to be patient.

Soft answers turn away wrath is a principle and is subject to situation and circumstance. I remember speaking with my sister once and I was maintaining a soft voice. Her response to my soft voice, "What are you trying to do?! You are only speaking softly to show you are better than me, or trying to make yourself better than me!" No, I was speaking softly in order to control my own frustration and anger, and so that I did not let my passions overrule me.

There are times and seasons. Our responsibility is to grow line up line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little until we have mastered ourselves. There was a time when the Lord whipped people out of his and his Father's house. There was a time when he allowed his body to be beaten and nailed to the cross without any anger. He is the exemplar and as long as you are seeking to become like Him, repenting when needed, then in time you will have answered all your questions and you will have principles and knowledge as to know when to run, when to fight, or when to be patient and stand your ground.

 

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14 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

 No, I was speaking softly in order to control my own frustration and anger, and so that I did not let my passions overrule me.

Beautifully said. That's awesome of you @Anddenex, I know of so many people who just can't do that. 

Your entire post was fantastic, for the record. 

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24 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Beautifully said. That's awesome of you @Anddenex, I know of so many people who just can't do that. 

Your entire post was fantastic, for the record. 

Very kind MG, thank you. Sadly, my perfection is not there yet and I find myself allowing my passions to over rule my control. This is evident on Thirdhour also. :)

At least that one time, I was able to remain in control. :)

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Like my father, I have a long fuse, but once I reach my  limit, temper control goes offline.

Over time, I've learned to recognize when my fuse is getting short and that's when it's best to extract from the situation entirely. 

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Yay Brigham Young!

Chapter 28: Exercising Self-Control,” Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young (1997), 202–209

Quote

We can control our passions and emotions.

You have been taught the standard of right. Now subdue your rebellious passions, dismiss everything that you know or consider to be wrong, and embrace that which is better.

In this probation, we have evil to contend with, and we must overcome it in ourselves, or we never shall overcome it anywhere else.

A righteous person will never be discouraged, but will constantly contend against his evil passions, and against evil in his family and neighborhood.

Many men will say they have a violent temper, and try to excuse themselves for actions of which they are ashamed. I will say, there is not a man in this house who has a more indomitable and unyielding temper than myself. But there is not a man in the world who cannot overcome his passion, if he will struggle earnestly to do so. If you find passion coming on you, go off to some place where you cannot be heard; let none of your family see you or hear you, while it is upon you, but struggle till it leaves you; and pray for strength to overcome. As I have said many times to the Elders, pray in your families; and if, when the time for prayer comes, you have not the spirit of prayer upon you, and your knees are unwilling to bow, say to them, “Knees, get down there”; make them bend, and remain there until you obtain the Spirit of the Lord. If the spirit yields to the body, it becomes corrupt; but if the body yields to the spirit it becomes pure and holy.

Do not get so angry that you cannot pray; do not allow yourselves to become so angry that you cannot feed an enemy—even your worst enemy, if an opportunity should present itself. There is a wicked anger, and there is a righteous anger. The Lord does not suffer wicked anger to be in his heart; but there is anger in his bosom, and he will hold a controversy with the nations, and will sift them, and no power can stay his hand.

When my feelings are aroused to anger by the ill-doings of others, I hold them as I would hold a wild horse, and I gain the victory. Some think and say that it makes them feel better when they are mad, as they call it, to give vent to their madness in abusive and unbecoming language. This, however, is a mistake. Instead of its making you feel better, it is making bad worse. When you think and say it makes you better you give credit to a falsehood. When the wrath and bitterness of the human heart are moulded into words and hurled with violence at one another, without any check or hindrance, the fire has no sooner expended itself than it is again re-kindled through some trifling course, until the course of nature is set on fire.

Now I charge you again, and I charge myself not to get angry. Never let anger arise in your hearts. No, Brigham, never let anger arise in your heart, never, never! Although you may be called upon to chastise and to speak to the people sharply, do not let anger arise in you, no, never!.

Cease your anger, and sullenness of temper, and serve the Lord with cheerfulness, and singleness of heart. You need not expect salvation, except you can administer the same salvation to others, both in precept and example. If you expect compassion from me, administer the same to me. If you wish kind words and kind treatment from me, give me the same blessing you desire yourself; and that is the way you will be saved.

If you give way to your angry feelings, it sets on fire the whole course of nature, … and you are then apt to set those on fire who are contending with you. When you feel as though you would burst, tell the old boiler to burst, and just laugh at the temptation to speak evil. If you will continue to do that, you will soon be so masters of yourselves as to be able, if not to tame, to control your tongues—able to speak when you ought, and to be silent when you ought.

We want the spirit, knowledge, power and principle within us to govern and control our tempers; there is no danger of having too much [anger] if we will only control [it] by the Spirit of the Almighty. Every intelligent being on the earth is tempered for glory, beauty, excellency and knowledge here, and for immortality and eternal lives in the worlds to come. But every being who attains to this must be sanctified before God and be completely under the control of his Spirit. If I am thus controlled by the Spirit of the Most High, I am a king. I am supreme so far as the control of self is concerned.

 

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@without_you One great lesson I have learned in life is that the more you practice something (anything) the better you get at it.  As a scientist - intelligence is defined as the ability to learn and alter your behavior.   If you have opportunity - use it to your advantage and not to the advantage of those that would defeat you.  So use your emotions to your advantage - anger has the means to separate you from the nobel advantage.  Even as a young man being trained for war (Vietnam) era - I learned that someone out of control (anger) is more of a threat to their own than to the enemy and the primary cause of deaths by friendly fire.

 

The Traveler

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