2ndRateMind

This is about 'eternal families'...

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So, I heard of an anecdote concerning Stephen Fry, a much loved English actor and comedian (and, as if that matters, a homosexual).

Apparently, on one visit to the US, he ended up in Salt Lake City, and subscribed to a tour. His tour guide eventually got round to the topic of the eternal family. 'When you die', she insisted, 'you will be reunited with all your family'. Wag that he is, Fry asked: 'But what happens to you if you've been good all your life?' His question, I understand, did not go down well, and he found himself ejected from the tourist group forthwith.

Nevertheless, despite the dry humour, I think there is an underlying point that needs to be addressed. Families can be fractious things, and often we hurt the most those we love the most. And vice versa. So, is the eternal family, in these days of divorces on demand, family breakdowns, disfellowships and excommunications, unconventional family arrangements, and so on, really a viable concept? Or is the eternal family a metaphor for how our relationships should be with the whole of the human race?

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

Edited by 2ndRateMind

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30 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

So, I heard of an anecdote concerning Stephen Fry, a much loved English actor and comedian (and, as if that matters, a homosexual).

Apparently, on one visit to the US, he ended up in Salt Lake City, and subscribed to a tour. His tour guide eventually got round to the topic of the eternal family. 'When you die', she insisted, 'you will be reunited with all your family'. Wag that he is, Fry asked: 'But what happens to you if you've been good all your life?' His question, I understand, did not go down well, and he found himself ejected from the tourist group forthwith.

Nevertheless, despite the dry humour, I think there is an underlying point that needs to be addressed. Families can be fractious things, and often we hurt the most those we love the most. And vice versa. So, is the eternal family, in these days of divorces on demand, family breakdowns, disfellowships and excommunications, unconventional family arrangements, and so on, really a viable concept? Or is the eternal family a metaphor for how our relationships should be with the whole of the human race?

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

In one sense, sure; the notion of eternal families should serve to unify the entire human race; because sooner or later, we all trace back to common ancestors, and we are all children of the same God.

But, when you ask if we’re serious about the family relationship being ideally eternal—the answer is unequivocally “yes”.  Divorce and dysfunction don’t happen in a vacuum; they are the result of at least one party failing to keep covenants and live a selfless, Christlike lifestyle.  

But I think you’ve touched on a deeper reality:  too often, some of us Latter-day Saints fall into the notion that we go to the temple, receive the ritual, God says “poof” and voila!—eternal marriage!  When I wonder whether eternal family relationships aren’t more of an organic process wherein the covenants and endowment of spiritual power inspire us to successfully apply time and effort into a marriage that would otherwise inevitably decay sooner or later due to the relational entropy that threatens to curse all friendship and love in this fallen world.

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This doesn't directly address your question, but we have a couple in our stake who are happy (willing?) to be married to each other but have decided that they don't want to be sealed to each other. In all other ways, they are, and have been a solid, gospel living family for at least the last 20 years, with two RM children. I haven't come across that kind of conscious decision before. 

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15 hours ago, 2ndRateMind said:

So, I heard of an anecdote concerning Stephen Fry, a much loved English actor and comedian (and, as if that matters, a homosexual).

Apparently, on one visit to the US, he ended up in Salt Lake City, and subscribed to a tour. His tour guide eventually got round to the topic of the eternal family. 'When you die', she insisted, 'you will be reunited with all your family'.

This is not entirely correct - on the flip side, some people will experience the "un-forever
family" because some family members did not endure to the end.

Gale

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17 hours ago, 2ndRateMind said:

So, I heard of an anecdote concerning Stephen Fry, a much loved English actor and comedian (and, as if that matters, a homosexual).

Apparently, on one visit to the US, he ended up in Salt Lake City, and subscribed to a tour. His tour guide eventually got round to the topic of the eternal family. 'When you die', she insisted, 'you will be reunited with all your family'. Wag that he is, Fry asked: 'But what happens to you if you've been good all your life?' His question, I understand, did not go down well, and he found himself ejected from the tourist group forthwith.

Great anecdote about those humorless Mormons, incapable of understanding humor and willing to throw someone out of a tour group for making a (rather obvious) joke. Surely no intelligent individual actually believes this story.

17 hours ago, 2ndRateMind said:

So, is the eternal family, in these days of divorces on demand, family breakdowns, disfellowships and excommunications, unconventional family arrangements, and so on, really a viable concept?

Yes. Eternal truths don't suddenly become false just because fools decide to go a different route.

17 hours ago, 2ndRateMind said:

Or is the eternal family a metaphor for how our relationships should be with the whole of the human race?

No. The route of the coward and the cynic is to decide that anything that goes against current popular opinion must be nothing more than metaphor.

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41 minutes ago, Vort said:

Great anecdote about those humorless Mormons, incapable of understanding humor and willing to throw someone out of a tour group for making a (rather obvious) joke. Surely no intelligent individual actually believes this story.

Quod erat demonstrandum. (QED).

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited by 2ndRateMind

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

No. The route of the coward and the cynic is to decide that anything that goes against current popular opinion must be nothing more than metaphor.

Interesting you should think this. It is clear to me from the Bible that it uses metaphors and similes liberally, not to mention myths and fables. And Jesus' preferred teaching method was in parables, stories He never pretended ever actually happened, but which nevertheless conveyed something of the truth about reality.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited by 2ndRateMind

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2 hours ago, Vort said:

Eternal truths don't suddenly become false just because fools decide to go a different route.

So, is everyone who differs from the world-view according to @Vort  necessarily a fool?

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited by 2ndRateMind

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18 hours ago, 2ndRateMind said:

So, I heard of an anecdote concerning Stephen Fry, a much loved English actor and comedian (and, as if that matters, a homosexual).

Apparently, on one visit to the US, he ended up in Salt Lake City, and subscribed to a tour. His tour guide eventually got round to the topic of the eternal family. 'When you die', she insisted, 'you will be reunited with all your family'. Wag that he is, Fry asked: 'But what happens to you if you've been good all your life?' His question, I understand, did not go down well, and he found himself ejected from the tourist group forthwith.

Nevertheless, despite the dry humour, I think there is an underlying point that needs to be addressed. Families can be fractious things, and often we hurt the most those we love the most. And vice versa. So, is the eternal family, in these days of divorces on demand, family breakdowns, disfellowships and excommunications, unconventional family arrangements, and so on, really a viable concept? Or is the eternal family a metaphor for how our relationships should be with the whole of the human race?

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

I always asked the question “if my whole family goes to the terrestrial kingdom, what keeps us from living in the same house there??

well the answer is that is stopping us. We can. But the what is the purpose to being sealed if we can still live in proximity to each other?

Remember in doctrine and covenants 19 where God teaches that he is eternal and that eternal punishment does not mean “endless punishment” but rather “God’s punishment”? Well I think the concept is similar (though I may be wrong). Eternal families just means “God’s Family”. When we are sealed, we are sealed to our family and God and are all connected. Without the sealing, we are not connected and no power can be passed to us from God.

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3 hours ago, Vort said:

Yes. Eternal truths don't suddenly become false just because fools decide to go a different route.

2 hours ago, 2ndRateMind said:

So, is everyone who differs from the world-view according to @Vort necessarily a fool?

Best wishes, 2RM.

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

That’s not what he said.  Try again. ;) 

 

OK. Here's my line of thought, by way of justification:

@Vort has a point of view.

@Vort thinks his point of view is objectively (eternally) true.

@Vort cannot conceive of any reason why others might differ from his point of view, other than that they are fools.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited by 2ndRateMind

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33 minutes ago, Fether said:

I always asked the question “if my whole family goes to the terrestrial kingdom, what keeps us from living in the same house there??

well the answer is that is stopping us. We can. But the what is the purpose to being sealed if we can still live in proximity to each other?

Remember in doctrine and covenants 19 where God teaches that he is eternal and that eternal punishment does not mean “endless punishment” but rather “God’s punishment”? Well I think the concept is similar (though I may be wrong). Eternal families just means “God’s Family”. When we are sealed, we are sealed to our family and God and are all connected. Without the sealing, we are not connected and no power can be passed to us from God.

Thanks for that insight.

Best wishes, 2RM.

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6 hours ago, 2ndRateMind said:

 

OK. Here's my line of thought, by way of justification:

@Vort has a point of view.

@Vort thinks his point of view is objectively (eternally) true.

@Vort cannot conceive of any reason why others might differ from his point of view, other than that they are fools.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes, 2RM.

You really like putting words into others' mouths.  Try this...

1) You make statements, considering them to be objectively true.  

2) You use those assumptions to launch your own question.

3) Vort responds with a reasonable response.

4) You then completely misrepresent his point and ignore his very accurate response TO THE QUESTION YOU ASKED.

5) When confronted, you for misrepresent what he said.  Notice that you did not actually quote him.  Those were your words, not his.

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12 hours ago, Mores said:

You really like putting words into others' mouths.  Try this...

1) You make statements, considering them to be objectively true.  

2) You use those assumptions to launch your own question.

3) Vort responds with a reasonable response.

4) You then completely misrepresent his point and ignore his very accurate response TO THE QUESTION YOU ASKED.

5) When confronted, you for misrepresent what he said.  Notice that you did not actually quote him.  Those were your words, not his.

Oh, @Vort and I are old sparring partners. I'm afraid he has given me up as a lost cause, a waste of time. I'm just inclined to challenge his evident contempt for people who do not see the world quite as he does, as demonstrated by his use of such words, on this thread alone, as 'cowards', and 'cynics', and 'fools'. Derogatory (and insulting) terminology does not strike me as a response appropriate for a Christian, in this day and age.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited by 2ndRateMind

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On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 6:51 PM, 2ndRateMind said:

Apparently, on one visit to the US, he ended up in Salt Lake City, and subscribed to a tour. His tour guide eventually got round to the topic of the eternal family. 'When you die', she insisted, 'you will be reunited with all your family'. Wag that he is, Fry asked: 'But what happens to you if you've been good all your life?' 

That's pretty funny.  :animatedlol:

My wife and I have a similar joke.  We're going to be sealed to each other and our kids next month and the running joke is "Now you're gonna be stuck with me forever!  Bwahahahahahahaha!"

Fry is funnier though.

On ‎4‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 6:51 PM, 2ndRateMind said:

Families can be fractious things, and often we hurt the most those we love the most. And vice versa. So, is the eternal family, in these days of divorces on demand, family breakdowns, disfellowships and excommunications, unconventional family arrangements, and so on, really a viable concept?

It's a viable concept but it does assume the individual members of the family will remain worthy.  That's why I think relatively few families will make it fully intact.  That's the reality of fee agency though.  They can't be forced, and not all will use their agency to their own benefit.

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1 minute ago, unixknight said:

That's pretty funny.  :animatedlol:

My wife and I have a similar joke.  We're going to be sealed to each other and our kids next month and the running joke is "Now you're gonna be stuck with me forever!  Bwahahahahahahaha!"

Best wishes, for your sealing. May you both live together as long as you want, and want to as long as you live together.

Blessings, 2RM.

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On 4/21/2019 at 11:36 AM, 2ndRateMind said:

So, is everyone who differs from the world-view according to @Vort  necessarily a fool?

Best wishes, 2RM.

We know the biology of reproduction (family) as scientific fact.  Current scientific studies of the Neandertal point towards a 2% decrease in fertility as eventually leading to the end (extension) of that species over a 20,000 year decline.  If we ignore the principles (behaviors) that got us here there is no reason to pretend we will endure.   The popular view is not always the “best” or the intelligent view.  The opposite of someone that is intelligence is someone that is a fool.

 

The Traveler

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