An Ethical Proposition....


2ndRateMind
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Well, I am pleased to report that last week, I sold my first software app on ebay. 

It didn't make me rich, at a retail price of £14.95 ($19.41) but it is a start.

However, I am concerned to make my micro-business 'ethical' from the get go, believing that will be more cost effective in the long run than attempting to graft ethics on to a going concern business at a later stage.

So, of my £14.95:

£3.36 goes to sales commission.

£0.84 goes to supporting economic development projects in Africa.

£2.64 goes to printing and burning the DVD.

The rest goes to general business expenses.

I wonder if you have any tips for me, on how to make my business ethical, environmentally sustainable, and generally people centred, rather than profit centred?

Best wishes, 2RM

eg:

  • Pay policy such that no one earns more than 7 times the lowest hourly rate.
  • Purchasing policy such that, for any given project, local suppliers are preferred to national suppliers, and national suppliers are preferred to international suppliers.

 

Edited by 2ndRateMind
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Guest MormonGator
28 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

I wonder if you have any tips for me, on how to make my business ethical, environmentally sustainable, and generally people centred, rather than profit centred?

Sure!

1) Realize that business is largely about making money. 

2) Understand that there is nothing wrong with making money

3) Accept that if you don't make money first, you can't do anything (like donate to charity, feed your family, create environmentally sustainable products, etc) second. 

 

Hope this helps! 

Edited by MormonGator
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25 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Sure!

1) Realize that business is largely about making money. 

2) Understand that there is nothing wrong with making money

3) Accept that if you don't make money first, you can't do anything (like donate to charity, feed your family, create environmentally sustainable products, etc) second. 

 

Hope this helps! 

Of course! A reminder of business fundamentals never goes amiss!

Best wishes, 2RM.

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1 hour ago, 2ndRateMind said:

eg:

  • Pay policy such that no one earns more than 7 times the lowest hourly rate.
  • Purchasing policy such that, for any given project, local suppliers are preferred to national suppliers, and national suppliers are preferred to international suppliers.

You're in luck - it is currently fashionable to appear ethical, sustainable, and anti-rich-people.  You don't actually have to BE any of those, but the more you look like you are, the better business will be.  I know you are the genuine article here, and you're not out to fool or lie to anyone, I'm just saying the climate is right to advertise these aspects of your business.  You don't have to force it down anyone's throat, but if you have a website or brochure or something, make sure it mentions stuff like that somewhere near the end.

You need to name your business and have a logo and whatnot, so make sure you use those as means to advertise your fashionable nobility.  Your logo has to be green, or show some sort of living thing on it.   You probably don't want to go with a human living thing, unless it's a downtrodden minority human of some sort.   And the name of your company has to be something like "sustainable solution apps" or "EcoProgramming United" or "Trump Sucks Software".  Something lower-key, but still tooting your own horn, would be something like "diversity apps" or NonBinaryBits (or something else that implies you're transgender or something.  People will be afraid to ask.)

If you advertise, make sure you point out that if a customer chooses you, they will not be contributing to white privilege or global climate change, like they might be if they went with your competitor.  Again, it doesn't matter if your competition does any of that or not.

Again, I know this is a bit sarcastic, and I know you are actually seriously invested in not just looking good, but in being good.  My advice is to let your customers see your goodness.  Humble people like you will be eaten alive by the self-promoters out there.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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That's all completely sound advice, if somewhat Machiavellian. But 'The Prince' was sound advice for rulers, at that time, also. I wonder, therefore, how you might distinguish between corporate 'green wash' and genuinely environmentally friendly businesses, so that the consumer can readily distinguish between the two?

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited by 2ndRateMind
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1 hour ago, 2ndRateMind said:

Well, I am pleased to report that last week, I sold my first software app on ebay. 

It didn't make me rich, at a retail price of £14.95 ($19.41) but it is a start.

However, I am concerned to make my micro-business 'ethical' from the get go, believing that will be more cost effective in the long run than attempting to graft ethics on to a going concern business at a later stage.

So, of my £14.95:

£3.36 goes to sales commission.

£0.84 goes to supporting economic development projects in Africa.

£2.64 goes to printing and burning the DVD.

The rest goes to general business expenses.

I wonder if you have any tips for me, on how to make my business ethical, environmentally sustainable, and generally people centred, rather than profit centred?

Best wishes, 2RM

eg:

  • Pay policy such that no one earns more than 7 times the lowest hourly rate.
  • Purchasing policy such that, for any given project, local suppliers are preferred to national suppliers, and national suppliers are preferred to international suppliers.

 

First off:  kudos for producing a useful product and getting it to market!  It’s always a thrill when those first customers start coming in.

Second:  all those extras you talk of are nice, but ultimately don’t do anyone any good if you ultimately have to shut down because you aren’t getting your bills paid and earning a tolerable living.  $20 is a great start, but it’s not going to save the world.  And if you run your business according to the mantra of “x% of every dollar” or “x% of every sale” goes to charity—you’re setting yourself up for a) an accounting nightmare, and b) a lot of testy creditors; since most expenses aren’t likely to be directly tied to the amount of units you produce.  The sooner you’re in the black, the more good you’ll be able to do in the long run.  So, I’d suggest you pay your debts first—all your debts—period.

Third:  obviously you, and not me, are the expert in software development and distribution.  But in this age of cloud computing and lightning-fast internet speed:  is it really necessary to distribute your product via DVD and/or do a lot of printing?  That strikes me as both unnecessary expensive and environmentally wasteful.

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35 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

You might want to check out Social Business by Grameen (creator of microloans). The only aspect of it which might not align with what you're seeking is that the product or service itself should be contributing to alleviating some social woe, rather than just profits going in that direction.

 

Yes indeedy. Believe me, I have a lot of projects in mind to alleviate social woes, but they all depend on me having some capital to invest to kick-start them in the first place. So, I write software, for now.

Best wishes, and thanks, 2RM.

Edited by 2ndRateMind
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5 hours ago, pwrfrk said:

Someone introduced computer technology to the British?  Wow.  No telling what's next...airplanes?  Too weird for me!

Look up Alan Turing. Or, indeed, Ada Lovelace. I think you will find we Brits had laid the intellectual foundations for computer technology, long before Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or Steve Wozniak ever arrived on the scene. Though I will concede that the transistor was a key development, and we have Americans to thank for that.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited by 2ndRateMind
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A few thoughts. This has been mentioned already; but first thing is first, you can’t help people when you aren’t on higher ground. Pay yourself first and make sure it is enough to cover your needs and maybe even some wants. Once the money starts coming in and your needs are met, then start reaching out to others. My current boss owns the business I work in and he is in a position where he could easily be paying himself $200,000+ a year, but instead he only pays himself about $110,000ish. He cuts his salary back so he can grow his business and make his employee’s experience better. Currently i am being paid about 2x more for what I do than any other company in the same industry would pay. On top of that we have a fantastic work environment because we all feel like our boss is really on our side.

this is ultimately a great goal to have, but things were not always this good. When he first started the business, it was a bit more scrappy as there wasn’t a lot of money going around. We all had families to take care of and no one expected anyone to make sacrifices at their own family’s expense.

So firstly I would suggest investing in yourself and your company first and make sure you and your business are self sustaining (if you are already there than great!!) Than once things get going look toward charity and people building. The 5% you are giving to Africa now pales in comparison to the 5% you could be giving in 5 years, and starting out giving the 5% will only hinder the growth to the good you can do later.

This is similar to why millionaires shouldn't just give away their entire fortune to charity, but rather keep it and give portions of it every year as their wealth grows. Bill Gates has done more for the needy with his $50 billion + in donations than every destitute adult who has made it their life’s goal to assist the needy. The blind can’t lead the blind, the poor can’t assist the poor.

Edited by Fether
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19 hours ago, 2ndRateMind said:

Well, I am pleased to report that last week, I sold my first software app on ebay. 

It didn't make me rich, at a retail price of £14.95 ($19.41) but it is a start.

However, I am concerned to make my micro-business 'ethical' from the get go, believing that will be more cost effective in the long run than attempting to graft ethics on to a going concern business at a later stage.

So, of my £14.95:

£3.36 goes to sales commission.

£0.84 goes to supporting economic development projects in Africa.

£2.64 goes to printing and burning the DVD.

The rest goes to general business expenses.

I wonder if you have any tips for me, on how to make my business ethical, environmentally sustainable, and generally people centred, rather than profit centred?

Best wishes, 2RM

eg:

  • Pay policy such that no one earns more than 7 times the lowest hourly rate.
  • Purchasing policy such that, for any given project, local suppliers are preferred to national suppliers, and national suppliers are preferred to international suppliers.

 

My Philosophy:   A lemonade stand business cannot succeed at being the best at making lemonades if it is busy trying to solve world hunger.  A person trying to solve world hunger cannot succeed at being the best at figuring out world hunger if he is busy trying to make lemonades... or campaigning for Congress.

For a business to be successful, it MUST be laser focused on the Mission of the business - the reason why it exists in the first place.  A lemonade stand business must be laser focused on making the best lemonades.  For the business to be ethical, the Mission of the business and the vision of how to achieve such a mission needs to be ethical.  So, for example - if your software is ethical (e.g. you're not creating software to learn to cheat at poker or something or you're not hiring slaves to burn DVDs to sell) then your mission is ethical.   A business performs a service - providing the world with a piece of software is a good service - it improves the life of somebody.  That's the source of its GOOD.  Economic development projects in Africa - if that has nothing to do with making your software, then it should not be in your business.

If you're in the business to make money, then ethical pricing falls between 0 and the largest amount a person is willing to pay for the product at an acceptable time.  So, if you can find someone to pay you 1 million pounds for your software without forcing him or falsely representing your product to him, then you can set your software price at 1 million and still be ethical.  It is what you do with the 1 million pounds that would make it unethical.  So, if it only cost you 5 pounds to make the software then you have 1M-5 pounds of income that you can then spend creating a non-profit organization whose sole mission is to provide aid for economic development projects in Africa.

 

 

 

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Guest MormonGator
19 hours ago, 2ndRateMind said:

Of course! A reminder of business fundamentals never goes amiss!

Best wishes, 2RM.

Welcome. Everyone wants to save the world and give to charity-and that's noble, wonderful, pure, etc. But you can't feed someone else if you are starving. Rules of nature Danielsan, not mine. 

Edited by MormonGator
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21 hours ago, 2ndRateMind said:

I wonder, therefore, how you might distinguish between corporate 'green wash' and genuinely environmentally friendly businesses, so that the consumer can readily distinguish between the two?

The consumer can tell, only to the extent that they can see your actions and behaviors.  They see what you tell them, but if they can also see what you do, they'll know if you're just blowing smoke or telling the truth.  Basically, it's an exercise in building and maintaining trust and relationships.  The same thing a human does with another human, but it scales up to things a business does with it's customers/peers/community.

Since we're talking ethical here, the best answer is to do what you say, and say what you do.  Doing what you say is easy if you're an honest person.  Saying what you do, self promotion, that can be hard for humble folks.

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On 4/22/2019 at 2:40 PM, 2ndRateMind said:

I wonder, therefore, how you might distinguish between corporate 'green wash' and genuinely environmentally friendly businesses, so that the consumer can readily distinguish between the two?

Best wishes, 2RM.

As a business, you don't need to worry about that.  All you need to worry about is being a genuinely environmentally friendly business.  Your actions will speak for itself and consumers will eventually trust your business for what it is.  It's like Chik-fil-A - they didn't really advertise being a "fast food restaurant practicing Christian principles".  They just practice it.  And it shows.  So now, they're known for it and are appreciated for it such that even Zaxby's created an ad - "We're open on Sundays" - to try to compete with Chik-fil-A without having to mention Chik-fil-A.  

As a consumer, how you distinguish genuine from gimmick is to go beyond the packaging or the advertisement.  Like Gillette, for example, trying to virtue signal for feminism while selling female razors at a higher price point than male razors... you know they're just riding the gimmick.

Edited by anatess2
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Thanks all, for your various advices. I will talk to you some more, maybe later.

But this in particular reminded me of a story about Alexander the Great:

Quote

My current boss owns the business I work in and he is in a position where he could easily be paying himself $200,000+ a year, but instead he only pays himself about $110,000ish. He cuts his salary back so he can grow his business and make his employee’s experience better. Currently i am being paid about 2x more for what I do than any other company in the same industry would pay. On top of that we have a fantastic work environment because we all feel like our boss is really on our side.

Apparently, Alexander and his Macedonian army had been traveling many days through the desert, and all their water was gone. Alexander sent out scouts, to find some more. Eventually, the scouts returned, with a single helmetful of the precious liquid. They offered it him. Alexander took the helmet and turned to his army behind him. And poured it into the sand at his feet, with the words: 'What use for one to drink, when so many thirst?'

And that, to me, is the difference between inspiring leadership, and a pig at the trough.

Best wishes, 2RM.

,

Edited by 2ndRateMind
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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

It's like Chik-fil-A - they didn't really advertise being a "fast food restaurant practicing Christian principles".  They just practice it.  And it shows.  So now, they're known for it and are appreciated for it such that even Zaxby's created an ad - "We're open on Sundays" - to try to compete with Chik-fil-A without having to mention Chik-fil-A.  

I suppose they don't put "we practice Christian principles" in their advertisements and marketing, but yes, they absolutely 100% brand themselves as such. 

 

On their website:

image.png.e2cf3490db8c931f3f89b14a627b8885.png

 

And in their Corporate Purpose:

image.png.e3ddb63e93636f73a1343fc52fc00db7.png

 

And in their signage, even on highway exit signs.

Image result for chick fil a closed sundays      Image result for chick fil a closed sunday

 

 

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43 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I suppose they don't put "we practice Christian principles" in their advertisements and marketing, but yes, they absolutely 100% brand themselves as such. 

 

On their website:

image.png.e2cf3490db8c931f3f89b14a627b8885.png

 

And in their Corporate Purpose:

image.png.e3ddb63e93636f73a1343fc52fc00db7.png

 

And in their signage, even on highway exit signs.

Image result for chick fil a closed sundays      Image result for chick fil a closed sunday

 

 

 

You completely missed my point.

"Closed Sunday" sign on your place of business is a declaration of one's operating hours.  It's part of customer service.  It is quite frustrating to pull up into a fast food restaurant only to find out they're closed when nobody expects them to be.   It is not intended as an advertisement because - no one in their right minds expect to attract business by telling them they're closed - but if they have to close, then it is to their best interest to attempt to stem customer frustration/inconvenience by explaining why they're closed.  Stating one's Mission and Vision is also not an advertisement for the purpose of attracting customers.  It is simply - stating your Mission and Vision like every good business does. 

The Zaxby's Superbowl Ad with NFL Saturday and Baseball Monday eating at Zaxby's on Sunday may have been an ad for their operating hours or simply an ad to edge out competing Chik-fil-A... but it wasn't received by Superbowl viewers in that way.  Rather, it was viciously panned as a mockery of the observation of the Christian Sabbath.

That is what I'm trying to say - you don't have to tell everyone you are environmentally responsible.  You simply HAVE TO BE environmentally responsible and everyone will know you as an environmentally responsible business.

Edited by anatess2
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I'm with Anatess and Fether.  Your philanthropic endeavors are certainly admirable, however, you have far more pressing needs at the moment, i.e., you.  Build a customer base, build a sustainable reputation, build capital, THEN start on your Africa project.  Sure, you can still donate however much you wish to donate before hand.  Just remember though, you still gotta pay your rent and feed your family first.

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Since it has become relevant, I thought I might justify my small contribution to African development, with each sale. £0.84p/sale will not save the world, but through this charity I hope it will accomplish these objectives:

  • Offset my business related carbon footprint, by locking up some carbon in trees
  • Provide some fruit and nuts, where people need food
  • Provide some employment, processing the produce, where people need work.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Edited by 2ndRateMind
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On 4/22/2019 at 11:17 AM, 2ndRateMind said:

I wonder if you have any tips for me, on how to make my business ethical, environmentally sustainable, and generally people centred, rather than profit centred?

Best wishes, 2RM

Just an idea referenced in a quote from Shakespeare "To thine own self be true and it shall follow as the night the day.  Thou canst be false to any man."

Also a reference to Alexander the Great as he was crossing a mountain pass with his army.  A waggon had become bogged down in mud to its axles when Alexander approached on his white horse.  Seeing his men struggling and not being successful, Alexander dismounted walked into the mud calling all to come join him.  He then put his manual effort with many others and the waggon was freed.  Alexander, now muddy, got back on his white horse and continued.  That night his generals were upset and addressed the matter.  They informed Alexander that he was considered a G-d and should not be getting into the mud - He has many men to do that sort of thing.   Alexander looked at his generals and said, "Tomorrow my men will give their lives for me in battle.  What will they do for you?"  In short - be the example of what you think the world (those you deal with) needs.

 

The Traveler

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7 minutes ago, 2ndRateMind said:

Since it has become relevant, I thought I might justify my small contribution to African development, with each sale. £0.84p will not save the world, but through this charity I hope it will accomplish these objectives:

  • Offset my business related carbon footprint, by locking up some carbon in trees
  • Provide some fruit and nuts, where people need food
  • Provide some employment, processing the produce, where people need work.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Just an observation about - Offset my business related carbon footprint, by locking up some carbon in trees

Carbon is necessary in our atmosphere for trees to survive, the more there is in the atmosphere the better it is for them and other plants.  Global warming is a scam - as is climate change.  Climate change is always taking place and not just on earth.  Jupiter is currently experiencing great climate change and "The Red Spot" storm is likely to disappear before the 12 year doom predicted for carbon destroying earth.  We do need to clean up pollution - real pollution.  One unmistakeable factor in human pollution is human population.  Any politician that is for reducing their nation's carbon footprint and is also for allowing immigration - is an obvious liar and political hack.

 

The Traveler

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