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NeuroTypical

Replacement for youth programs

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New church video tells us the replacement for BSOA/Personal Progress/Duty to God/Faith in God are being tested worldwide in some areas.  When they roll it out, I'm sure it'll get a catchier name than "Global Initiative for Children and Youth".

 

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This feels like more of a “we know you guys are starting to panic over what you’re going to do next year, and we haven’t forgotten about you” thing, than anything else.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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My theory is that they aren't releasing information because they, perhaps rightfully, believe that as soon as they do, people will start abandoning scouts and trying to run the new program off of whatever incomplete information they have.

I'm partially worried that they are going to try to do a three week roll out where they dump all of the information in December and expect people to take off running.  That bothers me mostly because if it's a program that you could implement and train in three weeks, I have serious concerns about its quality.

But I keep worrying less and less.  I've fully outsourced all of the leadership and teaching training to my kids outside of the Church.  I've resigned myself that mid-week activities will be a social club for them. Some of the other families in my ward and the neighboring ward seem to be feeling the same way; they are starting to ask me for recommendations on Cub Packs and Scout Troops and aren't holding their breath for the new youth whatever-it-is.

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23 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

My theory is that they aren't releasing information because they, perhaps rightfully, believe that as soon as they do, people will start abandoning scouts and trying to run the new program off of whatever incomplete information they have.

I'm partially worried that they are going to try to do a three week roll out where they dump all of the information in December and expect people to take off running.  That bothers me mostly because if it's a program that you could implement and train in three weeks, I have serious concerns about its quality.

I see program layout being given and focused on during Oct General Conference.  Leaders (global and local) can spend time going over things, get things going etc.  I don't know about you, but every time I've been involved with youth/kids programs, the planning goes out a few months at best, so giving program specifics out 3 months in advance works well for that.  In the mean time, the church planners still have time to listen to the testers, make modifications, etc.  

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45 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

My theory is that they aren't releasing information because they, perhaps rightfully, believe that as soon as they do, people will start abandoning scouts and trying to run the new program off of whatever incomplete information they have.

I'm partially worried that they are going to try to do a three week roll out where they dump all of the information in December and expect people to take off running.  That bothers me mostly because if it's a program that you could implement and train in three weeks, I have serious concerns about its quality.

But I keep worrying less and less.  I've fully outsourced all of the leadership and teaching training to my kids outside of the Church.  I've resigned myself that mid-week activities will be a social club for them. Some of the other families in my ward and the neighboring ward seem to be feeling the same way; they are starting to ask me for recommendations on Cub Packs and Scout Troops and aren't holding their breath for the new youth whatever-it-is.

Speaking anecdotally, serving in quorum presidencies was far more effective leadership training than anything I did in Scouting—the latter just shoved me into experiences wherein I learned through sad experience how to identify a jerk on a power trip.  

I don’t worry about our faith community’s ability to train leaders or inculcate character or virtue to the rising generation.  Surround good people with good people, and they’ll ultimately find a way forward regardless of what planned-for-obscelescence print materials they reference or whose overpriced uniform shirts they’re expected to buy.  The only difference is that BSA leadership at the national and council levels has proven primarily interested in what they can skim off of our programs in order to feather their own  nests; whereas the Church leadership is actually busting their chops to provide us with useful real-world resources and support at significant personal and institutional sacrifice.

So yeah, the uncertainty is frustrating; but at this point I mostly just want to know the parameters of what I can and can’t do, places I can and can’t go, and what kind of funding and physical facilities and staffing will be available for my program.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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Coming from outside the US, its a bit of a mystery to me why the scouting thing is such a big issue. You can run a YM program and interested YM can enrol in the scouting program on an individual basis - as happens in all other countries. Until we have a fuller picture about the new program it is difficult to make comparisons, IMO it comes down to: Do we have faith in church leadership knowing how they want the youth of the church to progress?

I am another one anticipating an October roll out, and see the update as a reassurance that things are coming into place.

Currently my focus is on getting my uber enthusiastic Beehives through Personal Progress in a year.

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3 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Speaking anecdotally, serving in quorum presidencies was far more effective leadership training than anything I did in Scouting—the latter just shoved me into experiences wherein I learned through sad experience how to identify a jerk on a power trip.  

I don’t worry about our faith community’s ability to train leaders or inculcate character or virtue to the rising generation.  Surround good people with good people, and they’ll ultimately find a way forward regardless of what planned-for-obscelescence print materials they reference or whose overpriced uniform shirts they’re expected to buy.  The only difference is that BSA leadership at the national and council levels has proven primarily interested in what they can skim off of our programs in order to feather their own  nests; whereas the Church leadership is actually busting their chops to provide us with useful real-world resources and support at significant personal and institutional sacrifice.

So yeah, the uncertainty is frustrating; but at this point I mostly just want to know the parameters of what I can and can’t do, places I can and can’t go, and what kind of funding and physical facilities and staffing will be available for my program.

I completely agree with this anecdotal experience. We foster public speaking skills in primary as well as basic music and rhythm. Our youth further develop the ability to set and meet goals, plan activities and delegate responsibilities through other church responsibilities so that they are reasonably well prepared to take on further challenges as missionaries which really has the potential to instill some great leadership skills. So from that perspective I would have to say the church is already more effective at developing leadership skills than scouts ever was.

But my bias is showing because I found Scouts to be a huge disappointment. I had hoped to learn things like:

  • how to cross terrain without being detected
  • how to pick up on tracks and signs of others (human or animal) 
  • Edible foods for living off the land
  • how to make a fire without matches
  • building improvised shelter
  • recognizing when you're being followed
  • how to lose someone tailing you
  • Any number of useful survival, outdoorsman, espionage skills that seem to fit into the scouting umbrella.
  • Other fun things that may not directly apply but would have been cool (i.e. archery, marksmanship, etc.)

When I think back to what I learned... how to tie a square knot stands out as about the only thing that stuck with me. In fairness, I had opportunities to go on hikes in nature and learn a little about edible vegetation and so on. Still more often than not, we were doing seemingly random stuff that never built on other skills to the point of proficiency - nevermind mastery - with the occasional field trip to go see how a water treatment facility works mixed in with a healthy dose of fundraising like selling honey at a booth at the mall.

Almost all of the useful skills I wanted to learn in scouting I either have still not learned or picked up on doing things around the house with my dad or on camping trips with my family. 

I'm still somewhat optimistic that the new program the church roles out will be excellent. There is a part of me that is concerned it will turn into an extra night of seminary and lack the physical side of things to the extent one would hope, but again in my experience that was all a fail anyway, but at least this way I wouldn't be expecting it to be something it's not.

Edited by SpiritDragon

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26 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

I completely agree with this anecdotal experience. We foster public speaking skills in primary as well as basic music and rhythm. Our youth further develop the ability to set and meet goals, plan activities and delegate responsibilities through other church responsibilities so that they are reasonably well prepared to take on further challenges as missionaries which really has the potential to instill some great leadership skills. So from that perspective I would have to say the church is already more effective at developing leadership skills than scouts ever was.

But my bias is showing because I found Scouts to be a huge disappointment. I had hoped to learn things like:

  • how to cross terrain without being detected
  • how to pick up on tracks and signs of others (human or animal) 
  • Edible foods for living off the land
  • how to make a fire without matches
  • building improvised shelter
  • recognizing when you're being followed
  • how to lose someone tailing you
  • Any number of useful survival, outdoorsman, espionage skills that seem to fit into the scouting umbrella.
  • Other fun things that may not directly apply but would have been cool (i.e. archery, marksmanship, etc.)

When I think back to what I learned... how to tie a square knot stands out as about the only thing that stuck with me. In fairness, I had opportunities to go on hikes in nature and learn a little about edible vegetation and so on. Still more often than not, we were doing seemingly random stuff that never built on other skills to the point of proficiency - nevermind mastery - with the occasional field trip to go see how a water treatment facility works mixed in with a healthy dose of fundraising like selling honey at a booth at the mall.

Almost all of the useful skills I wanted to learn in scouting I either have still not learned or picked up on doing things around the house with my dad or on camping trips with my family. 

I'm still somewhat optimistic that the new program the church roles out will be excellent. There is a part of me that is concerned it will turn into an extra night of seminary and lack the physical side of things to the extent one would hope, but again in my experience that was all a fail anyway, but at least this way I wouldn't be expecting it to be something it's not.

I think Scouting—even imperfectly practiced—does make boys not-quite-useless.  I learned to pitch a tent, lay a fire, basic first-aid concepts, basic financial management, fundamentals of flight, how to sail, and some other skills and interests that have stuck with me.

But I not sure it’s anything one couldn’t get from other programs like http://questclubs.net/ or https://diy.org/about or (for adults) https://strenuouslife.co/.  The BSA’s unique strengths are its network of merit badge counselors (which the Church could substantially replicate by asking its adults to leverage their various professional and skills and hobbies), its real estate holdings and camps (the beginnings of which the Church already has, and which it can grow with all the money it’s saving in dues, if it wants), the uniform/insignia/tangible award aspect of their advancement program (which it seems is—lamentably, IMHO—becoming somewhat passe anyways), and its donor network (which was more of a New England-WASPy country-club-dilettante networking thing, and the proceeds of which never made it to the boys anyways).  

No, the air is thick with opportunity—if we are willing to put our shoulders to the wheel and make the most of it.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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3 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I think Scouting—even imperfectly practiced—does make boys not-quite-useless.  I learned to pitch a tent, lay a fire, basic first-aid concepts, basic financial management, fundamentals of flight, how to sail, and some other skills and interests that have stuck with me.

But I not sure it’s anything one couldn’t get from other programs like http://questclubs.net/ or https://diy.org/about or (for adults) https://strenuouslife.co/.  The BSA’s unique strengths are its network of merit badge counselors (which the Church could substantially replicate by asking its adults to leverage their various professional and skills and hobbies), its camps (the beginnings of which the Church already has, and which it can grow with all the money it’s saving in dues, if it wants), the uniform/insignia/tangible award aspect of their advancement program (which it seems is—lamentably, IMHO—becoming somewhat passe anyways), and its donor network (which was more of a New England-WASPy country club hobby, and the proceeds of which never made it to the boys anyways).  

No, the air is thick with opportunity—if we are willing to put our shoulders to the wheel and make the most of it.

I've never seen such clubs. These could work in very well with a homeschool curriculum. My children are mostly grown, but I do have a 13-year-old who might find much of this fun and interesting.

For myself, I find the Strenuous Life idea intriguing.

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Wait until at least June before guestimating what is going to happen.

46 minutes ago, SpiritDragon said:

I completely agree with this anecdotal experience. We foster public speaking skills in primary as well as basic music and rhythm. Our youth further develop the ability to set and meet goals, plan activities and delegate responsibilities through other church responsibilities so that they are reasonably well prepared to take on further challenges as missionaries which really has the potential to instill some great leadership skills. So from that perspective I would have to say the church is already more effective at developing leadership skills than scouts ever was.

But my bias is showing because I found Scouts to be a huge disappointment. I had hoped to learn things like:

  • how to cross terrain without being detected
  • how to pick up on tracks and signs of others (human or animal) 
  • Edible foods for living off the land
  • how to make a fire without matches
  • building improvised shelter
  • recognizing when you're being followed
  • how to lose someone tailing you
  • Any number of useful survival, outdoorsman, espionage skills that seem to fit into the scouting umbrella.
  • Other fun things that may not directly apply but would have been cool (i.e. archery, marksmanship, etc.) 

When I think back to what I learned... how to tie a square knot stands out as about the only thing that stuck with me. In fairness, I had opportunities to go on hikes in nature and learn a little about edible vegetation and so on. Still more often than not, we were doing seemingly random stuff that never built on other skills to the point of proficiency - nevermind mastery - with the occasional field trip to go see how a water treatment facility works mixed in with a healthy dose of fundraising like selling honey at a booth at the mall.

This is actually more of a problem with how people ran scouts in the church and not the boy Scouts itself.  Leadership in Boy Scouts was supposed to be as a Boy led troop.  In the church, more often than not, leaders would not get trained in HOW the program was supposed to run, and even many who did ran it differently than both the Boy Scouts AND the Church handbooks on the subject tried to explain to do it.  Instead of having boys decide what they would do and plan out the activity it would be the leader that would plan the activity and tell the boys what was going to happen.

Why so many ignored their church leaders and the church itself when running youth programs has been a great mystery to me.  Even when scouts was going strong in the church you had leaders that had no interest in doing scouts...or even the Duty to God or any other church program.  It seemed they were more interested in playing basketball or doing something unrelated to either scouts, the Church, or the Lord on their weekly nights.

that said...on some of these items...

Quote
  • how to cross terrain without being detected

Why is this a necessary skill?  Are you wanting navy seal training as a Boy Scout?

In reality, this is actually impossible.  Even the navy seals cannot do this that I am aware of.  There are ways to minimize chances that you will be seen, but thus far, mankind has not invented a way to cross terrain invisibly that I know of. 

I'm not sure why a Boy Scout would need such a skill.  This probably is one of those expectations that came from personal expectations rather than what Boy Scouts was designed to do?

 

Quote
  • how to pick up on tracks and signs of others (human or animal) 

What you wanted to do was live around several decades prior.  They used to have the Stalking Merit Badge.  In it you would learn how to identify tracks, and how to stalk different creatures.  You should be able to know what type of creature it was, which direction it went in, how old the tracks were and how fast it was moving. 

AS times changed, and boys grew more interested in other items, tracking was less important.  They did incorporate this into other parts of the program, at least when my boys were growing up (albeit, that was some decades ago).  This is one where you would learn about animal tracks (even if it wasn't as in depth as the merit badge went) and how to identify them. 

If your father took you hunting, he could have also taught you similar ideas and trained you with how to do some of this.

Quote
  • Edible foods for living off the land

 

This is very area dependent.  Most of the time, unless you need to eat food off the land, my suggestion is that you do NOT eat food off the land unless you have to.  It is a good way to kill yourself.  There have been many who thought they could identify food as such, and then died from food poisoning a short time later. 

However, if one decided that they should, there are some principles that one could utilize in any environment.  If one has been trained in that particular area (and areas change around the world with what is edible and what is not), the first step is...

1. See what the animals are eating.

2. Once you see what animals are eating, you can try a bit yourself.

3.  To do this, after making sure the animals don't die after eating the stuff, is to put a tiny bit into your mouth.  Let it sit there for a while.  DO NOT EAT IT.

4.  See if you have any type of reaction after 8 hours (minimum, I'd actually suggest 24 hours).

5.  If after that while, if you are still well, try a TINY bit and eat it.  Once again, wait to see if you have a reaction after a day.

6.  If, you are still well after that, you can try eating a small portion and see if there are any adverse reactions.  If you remain well after that...you probably have found something that may be relatively safe to eat in the short term (but no guarantees).

 

With Water...what we did was to use Iodine.  You put the iodine in the water, shake it up and wait for a while.  The iodine does not kill all the bad germs, it merely coats it so that it cannot interact with your gut.  I'd suggest waiting at least 15 minutes per quart after you mix it in.

and there you go, your own edible food guide.  This is something I think many learned when they were younger, and I think at times has been incorporated in the Wilderness Survival merit badge (unsure if it is in there today).  Wilderness Survival is still a merit badge, though I do not think it is a required merit badge anymore.

 

Quote
  • how to make a fire without matches

This was still a thing when my boys were scouts.  It was fairly popular to use flint and steel (and steel wool was something they also liked to use) to start fires.  One could try the bow method but that normally took a LOOONG time to teach a boy if they were trying to do that.  This was also part of the Wilderness Survival Merit Badge.

 

Quote
  • building improvised shelter

 

Once again, this was also part of the required portions of Wilderness Survival.  I think one of most memorable items many boys did was to have a camp out doing this merit badge where they had to construct their own shelter and could not use anything but their survival kit.

 

Quote
  • recognizing when you're being followed

 

This sounds like you were wanting a military training course or CIA training course or some sort of thing.  Boy scouts were to teach the boys leadership and morality while doing things that the boys found fun (such as camping).  I'm not sure that this would fall under the goals of Boy scouts.

 

Quote
  • how to lose someone tailing you

AS with the above, in regards to the Boy Scout idea.

Quote
  • Any number of useful survival, outdoorsman, espionage skills that seem to fit into the scouting umbrella.

 

Espionage?  The Boy Scouts have taught many survival and outdoorsman skills over the years.  Most of the skills deal with more peaceful ways of interacting with the environment.  If you wanted subterfuge, the most you probably would get would be how to hide in the undergrowth so that you could observe animals for some of the various merit badges that dealt with animal observation or plant collecting.

 

Quote
  • Other fun things that may not directly apply but would have been cool (i.e. archery, marksmanship, etc.)

These also have been in boy scouts for a while.  Rifle and Shotgun as well as Archery are still covered by various merit badges.

Boys are supposed to identify what Merit Badges they are interested in and find the merit badge counselor themselves, contact that merit badge counselor and work on these things.  If a boy wanted to be a better marksman, contact that merit badge counselor.  This hopefully teaches the boy leadership or at least initiative skills in investigating and doing what they are interested in.

I know that many units in the Church did NOT push this or that the program was supposed to work this way, but the program was structured so that leadership and self initiative were items boys were supposed to develop.  For some of your items it sounds as if you had expectations other than what was found in the scouts and not really promoted in the Scouting program.  For other items, they were always there, but you may have had leaders that did not understand the program or refused to do it as the church instructed and thus were not given the opportunities to grow and develop as the Church program was designed to do.  AS such, you probably did not get to do many of the items that you seem to have wanted to do, but did not get to.

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43 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Wait until at least June before guestimating what is going to happen.

This is actually more of a problem with how people ran scouts in the church and not the boy Scouts itself.  Leadership in Boy Scouts was supposed to be as a Boy led troop.  In the church, more often than not, leaders would not get trained in HOW the program was supposed to run, and even many who did ran it differently than both the Boy Scouts AND the Church handbooks on the subject tried to explain to do it.  Instead of having boys decide what they would do and plan out the activity it would be the leader that would plan the activity and tell the boys what was going to happen.

Why so many ignored their church leaders and the church itself when running youth programs has been a great mystery to me.  Even when scouts was going strong in the church you had leaders that had no interest in doing scouts...or even the Duty to God or any other church program.  It seemed they were more interested in playing basketball or doing something unrelated to either scouts, the Church, or the Lord on their weekly nights.

I did actually do scouting both in and out of the church, and while the experience in church troops was different, neither of them excelled in actual scouting or at least my perception of it.

43 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

that said...on some of these items...

Why is this a necessary skill?  Are you wanting navy seal training as a Boy Scout?

Not a navy seal, but Scouting originated with the military discipline of scouting - as in surveillance, detection, avoidance of detection, sending signals and so on. I just happened to wish for it to live up to the purpose of it's existence from my understanding as a child. Lord Baden Powell put together the scouting program first to prepare boys to be more useful in military application and things were later revised for a more civilian take on improving life and building character, but the useful military application shouldn't have all but disappeared into history.

43 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

In reality, this is actually impossible.  Even the navy seals cannot do this that I am aware of.  There are ways to minimize chances that you will be seen, but thus far, mankind has not invented a way to cross terrain invisibly that I know of. 

I'm not sure why a Boy Scout would need such a skill.  This probably is one of those expectations that came from personal expectations rather than what Boy Scouts was designed to do?

Fair enough - I should have stated how to minimize odds of detection. From an actual scouting perspective the ability to get back and relay information without being detected is incredibly valuable. It could also be highly valuable to the innocent person who witnesses something that puts their life in jeopardy. Perhaps more of an urban movement course would be appropriate for most, but still a valuable skill set.

43 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

What you wanted to do was live around several decades prior.  They used to have the Stalking Merit Badge.  In it you would learn how to identify tracks, and how to stalk different creatures.  You should be able to know what type of creature it was, which direction it went in, how old the tracks were and how fast it was moving. 

AS times changed, and boys grew more interested in other items, tracking was less important.  They did incorporate this into other parts of the program, at least when my boys were growing up (albeit, that was some decades ago).  This is one where you would learn about animal tracks (even if it wasn't as in depth as the merit badge went) and how to identify them. 

If your father took you hunting, he could have also taught you similar ideas and trained you with how to do some of this.

Indeed, if my father had been a hunter I could have learned many of these skills. He wasn't and didn't - and that's okay too.

43 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

This is very area dependent.  Most of the time, unless you need to eat food off the land, my suggestion is that you do NOT eat food off the land unless you have to.  It is a good way to kill yourself.  There have been many who thought they could identify food as such, and then died from food poisoning a short time later. 

However, if one decided that they should, there are some principles that one could utilize in any environment.  If one has been trained in that particular area (and areas change around the world with what is edible and what is not), the first step is...

1. See what the animals are eating.

2. Once you see what animals are eating, you can try a bit yourself.

3.  To do this, after making sure the animals don't die after eating the stuff, is to put a tiny bit into your mouth.  Let it sit there for a while.  DO NOT EAT IT.

4.  See if you have any type of reaction after 8 hours (minimum, I'd actually suggest 24 hours).

5.  If after that while, if you are still well, try a TINY bit and eat it.  Once again, wait to see if you have a reaction after a day.

6.  If, you are still well after that, you can try eating a small portion and see if there are any adverse reactions.  If you remain well after that...you probably have found something that may be relatively safe to eat in the short term (but no guarantees).

Interesting points. 

43 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

With Water...what we did was to use Iodine.  You put the iodine in the water, shake it up and wait for a while.  The iodine does not kill all the bad germs, it merely coats it so that it cannot interact with your gut.  I'd suggest waiting at least 15 minutes per quart after you mix it in.

and there you go, your own edible food guide.  This is something I think many learned when they were younger, and I think at times has been incorporated in the Wilderness Survival merit badge (unsure if it is in there today).  Wilderness Survival is still a merit badge, though I do not think it is a required merit badge anymore.

 

43 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

 

This was still a thing when my boys were scouts.  It was fairly popular to use flint and steel (and steel wool was something they also liked to use) to start fires.  One could try the bow method but that normally took a LOOONG time to teach a boy if they were trying to do that.  This was also part of the Wilderness Survival Merit Badge.

 

 

Once again, this was also part of the required portions of Wilderness Survival.  I think one of most memorable items many boys did was to have a camp out doing this merit badge where they had to construct their own shelter and could not use anything but their survival kit.

 

 

This sounds like you were wanting a military training course or CIA training course or some sort of thing.  Boy scouts were to teach the boys leadership and morality while doing things that the boys found fun (such as camping).  I'm not sure that this would fall under the goals of Boy scouts.

 

AS with the above, in regards to the Boy Scout idea.

 

Espionage?  The Boy Scouts have taught many survival and outdoorsman skills over the years.  Most of the skills deal with more peaceful ways of interacting with the environment.  If you wanted subterfuge, the most you probably would get would be how to hide in the undergrowth so that you could observe animals for some of the various merit badges that dealt with animal observation or plant collecting.

 

These also have been in boy scouts for a while.  Rifle and Shotgun as well as Archery are still covered by various merit badges.

Boys are supposed to identify what Merit Badges they are interested in and find the merit badge counselor themselves, contact that merit badge counselor and work on these things.  If a boy wanted to be a better marksman, contact that merit badge counselor.  This hopefully teaches the boy leadership or at least initiative skills in investigating and doing what they are interested in.

I know that many units in the Church did NOT push this or that the program was supposed to work this way, but the program was structured so that leadership and self initiative were items boys were supposed to develop.  For some of your items it sounds as if you had expectations other than what was found in the scouts and not really promoted in the Scouting program.  For other items, they were always there, but you may have had leaders that did not understand the program or refused to do it as the church instructed and thus were not given the opportunities to grow and develop as the Church program was designed to do.  AS such, you probably did not get to do many of the items that you seem to have wanted to do, but did not get to.

You've hit the nail on the head. There is a lot that is/was SUPPOSED to happen that doesn't/didn't. It's easy to blame it on how the church ran things, easy to blame it on parents not being involved enough, easy to blame it on scouting in general... none of which is entirely true, and all of which contributed to the issues. My primary point in all of my pointing these things out is that at least I wouldn't have been disappointed by the new program for not living up to it's legendary potential, perhaps I'd be dissatisfied for other reasons - but not because it failed to meet expectations.

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6 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Speaking anecdotally, serving in quorum presidencies was far more effective leadership training than anything I did in Scouting—the latter just shoved me into experiences wherein I learned through sad experience how to identify a jerk on a power trip.  

I don’t worry about our faith community’s ability to train leaders or inculcate character or virtue to the rising generation.  Surround good people with good people, and they’ll ultimately find a way forward regardless of what planned-for-obscelescence print materials they reference or whose overpriced uniform shirts they’re expected to buy.  The only difference is that BSA leadership at the national and council levels has proven primarily interested in what they can skim off of our programs in order to feather their own  nests; whereas the Church leadership is actually busting their chops to provide us with useful real-world resources and support at significant personal and institutional sacrifice.

So yeah, the uncertainty is frustrating; but at this point I mostly just want to know the parameters of what I can and can’t do, places I can and can’t go, and what kind of funding and physical facilities and staffing will be available for my program.

Institutions such as Scouting are only necessary relative to the lack of proper father figures in children's homes.

Hence, I don't worry one bit about my own children -- as I plan on being a proper father figure.

As to the actual youth program -- I can see it being in line with the home centered, church supported desideratum.

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4 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

I can never remember if that's the 12-sided or 20-sided solid.

The difference between me and @Just_A_Guy is that I had to use a thesaurus to come up with that.

Edit: Um...I mean "one of the differences..."

Edited by The Folk Prophet

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Guest LiterateParakeet
On 4/29/2019 at 8:13 AM, NeuroTypical said:

When they roll it out, I'm sure it'll get a catchier name than "Global Initiative for Children and Youth".

 

I don't know "GICY" could catch on, right? 

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18 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I don't know "GICY" could catch on, right? 

One hallmark of a good name, is how hard it is to parody/make fun of/mock.   GICY sounds like "gucky" and "itchy" got together and had a baby.  And that's just from my 3am insomnia Facebook scrolling brain.

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Guest Mores
20 hours ago, SpiritDragon said:

I had hoped to learn things like:

  • how to cross terrain without being detected
  • how to pick up on tracks and signs of others (human or animal) 
  • Edible foods for living off the land
  • how to make a fire without matches
  • building improvised shelter
  • recognizing when you're being followed
  • how to lose someone tailing you
  • Any number of useful survival, outdoorsman, espionage skills that seem to fit into the scouting umbrella.
  • Other fun things that may not directly apply but would have been cool (i.e. archery, marksmanship, etc.)

This was covered in a series of several merit badges.  I guess you didn't know about them.  I remember Pioneering and Wilderness Survival.  But there was another one that covered things like that.  I just forget which one.

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Guest Mores
16 hours ago, mordorbund said:

I can never remember if that's the 12-sided or 20-sided solid.

You never played D&D, did you?

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Guest Mores
12 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

My platonic friends made their own dice.

Gee, you're better than Vort with those words.

A true gamer must know the words dodecahedron and icosahedron.  Otherwise, you're just not cool enough to play with me and my gang.

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