What do you think President Nelson meant?

[carlimac]

In one of his Conference talks he said, " Now, as President of His Church, I plead with you who have distanced yourselves from the Church and with you who have not yet really sought to know that the Savior’s Church has been restored. Do the spiritual work to find out for yourselves, and please do it now. Time is running out."

I put the whole paragraph in there for context but I doubt anyone has forgotten that last part that I bolded. 

One of my daughter's Young Women advisors mentioned it in a lesson and went on and on saying things like that apocalypse has already started and we are on a sinking ship on this earth, etc, etc. On the other hand I have a child who reminded me that Elder Packer ( I believe) said not that many years ago that the youth of the church can count on having long lives on this earth- of seeing their children and grandchildren grow to adulthood. So...hmmm. 

Another take on this. My son who claims to be agnostic and has been inactive for a couple years feels Pres. Nelson's statement was meant to intimidate. ( Backstory- this son is in medical school and has great respect for President Nelson, but he didn't like how this came across. He didn't hear it himself but his older sister shared it with him. )  He said it undermined the invitation to do the spiritual work to find out. That it was meant to scare rather than to encourage. 

What does anyone else think was behind that statement? 

[Vort]

A spiritually sensitive 95-year-old man must be fully aware that time is running out for us all. This life is the time to prepare to meet God, and that meeting could happen immediately for any of us. There might be more to it than that, but that's what I think.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Vort

[Guest Scott]

Time is always running out.   It doesn't matter how old you are; this is always true.   

[mirkwood]

We have been repeatedly warned we are living in the last days.  The terminology has morphed over time.  I remember hearing "we are in the last two minutes of the last hour," as I was a youth.  That changed over time to we are living in the last days.  A few years back that changed to "we live in perilous times."  The Family: A Proclamation To The World contains this warning, "we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets."  Those warnings are contained in the scriptures and the writings of apostles and prophets.  We have received warnings about the calamities and catastrophic events of the last days in conference and fireside addresses.  All things are spiritual to the Lord, including temporal things.

The current prophet just warned us again.

Edited April 30, 2019 by mirkwood

[Guest Mores]

49 minutes ago, carlimac said:

One of my daughter's Young Women advisors mentioned it in a lesson and went on and on saying things like that apocalypse has already started and we are on a sinking ship on this earth, etc, etc. On the other hand I have a child who reminded me that Elder Packer ( I believe) said not that many years ago that the youth of the church can count on having long lives on this earth- of seeing their children and grandchildren grow to adulthood. So...hmmm. 

The two sentiments are not mutually exclusive.

Quote

Another take on this. My son who claims to be agnostic and has been inactive for a couple years feels Pres. Nelson's statement was meant to intimidate. ( Backstory- this son is in medical school and has great respect for President Nelson, but he didn't like how this came across. He didn't hear it himself but his older sister shared it with him. )  He said it undermined the invitation to do the spiritual work to find out. That it was meant to scare rather than to encourage. 

Well,

Quote

And let your preaching be the warning voice, every man to his neighbor, in mildness and in meekness.

 -- D&C 38:41

Quote

And let those whom they have warned in their traveling call on the Lord, and ponder the warning in their hearts which they have received, for a little season.

 -- D&C 88:71

Quote

Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor.

 -- D&C 88:81

But just because there is a warning, does not mean it is threatening.  It means that we are concerned that someone is going down a bad or dark path.  Warning may be no different than PLEADING to come back from the darkness that we see others in.  I don't see how Pres. Nelson's words can be taken as anything but a pleading to come back.

Quote

83 He that seeketh me early shall find me, and shall not be forsaken.

84 Therefore, tarry ye, and labor diligently, that you may be perfected in your ministry to go forth among the Gentiles for the last time, as many as the mouth of the Lord shall name, to bind up the law and seal up the testimony, and to prepare the saints for the hour of judgment which is to come;

 -- D&C 88:83-84

All these warnings have been in place since the restoration nearly 200 years ago.  We all ought to treat these directives as if armageddon is at our doors.  Whether it is or not, the danger to the souls of all we love is just as dire and just as imminent.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Mores

[Anddenex]

48 minutes ago, carlimac said:

In one of his Conference talks he said, " Now, as President of His Church, I plead with you who have distanced yourselves from the Church and with you who have not yet really sought to know that the Savior’s Church has been restored. Do the spiritual work to find out for yourselves, and please do it now. Time is running out."

I put the whole paragraph in there for context but I doubt anyone has forgotten that last part that I bolded. 

One of my daughter's Young Women advisors mentioned it in a lesson and went on and on saying things like that apocalypse has already started and we are on a sinking ship on this earth, etc, etc. On the other hand I have a child who reminded me that Elder Packer ( I believe) said not that many years ago that the youth of the church can count on having long lives on this earth- of seeing their children and grandchildren grow to adulthood. So...hmmm. 

Another take on this. My son who claims to be agnostic and has been inactive for a couple years feels Pres. Nelson's statement was meant to intimidate. ( Backstory- this son is in medical school and has great respect for President Nelson, but he didn't like how this came across. He didn't hear it himself but his older sister shared it with him. )  He said it undermined the invitation to do the spiritual work to find out. That it was meant to scare rather than to encourage. 

What does anyone else think was behind that statement? 

1) The Lord is hastening his work with good reason, and remember -- scripturally speaking -- time running out is similar to and not so many years in scripture which could mean within 5 years or less, it could mean within 10 years, it could mean within 30 years. Look to the prophecies and events before Christ's coming in the Book of Mormon.

2) What @Vort said.

3) What @Scott said. As with a fellow worker of mine who went to the hospital with back pain and two months later passed away from an aggressive cancer. Our time is already known to the Lord, and time is always running out according to our timeline.

4) This is a warning of a judgement which is to come, we meet our maker either prepared or unprepared, which do we choose for those of us who have been taught?

As to your daughter's young woman adviser, that is extreme. If we are watching the signs as we should the apocalypse hasn't started, but she is right as being on a sinking ship. Just look to prophecy regarding the signs of the times. We still need to live though as though we will be seeing our children and grandchildren into adulthood.

As to your son, I would simply say, "You are correct. President Nelson provided a warning of a truth -- time is running out." This is the reality, and I know from the agnostic and atheist side they don't like to hear a "judgement" is too come. Warning people will increase faith as people hearken, and it can increase fear. If you do not this, then this will happen. In the Lord's eyes, it isn't fear, it is justice. It is allowing and educating someone of what is to come.

For example, if a soccer game if a team is behind by 1 goal and they have 5 minutes left. The coach isn't putting fear, although fear can be a choice, when he says, "If we don't score a goal in five minutes we will loose." That is the reality of what will happen. Your son doesn't like it because his life is not in harmony, and he knows it, and at this moment doesn't want to change. President Nelson's statement is no different than this coach. If we are prepared, although time is running out, we will not fear as we will be ready to see the Lord (so to speak). If we are not ready, time is running out, and we will not be prepared and yes we will have cause to "fear" (so to speak) if in that position and choice of life.

 

[mordorbund]

1 hour ago, carlimac said:

Elder Packer ( I believe) said not that many years ago that the youth of the church can count on having long lives on this earth- of seeing their children and grandchildren grow to adulthood.

If Jesus returns tonight, will this statement be falsified?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

1 hour ago, carlimac said:

 

I put the whole paragraph in there for context but I doubt anyone has forgotten that last part that I bolded. 

One of my daughter's Young Women advisors mentioned it in a lesson and went on and on saying things like that apocalypse has already started and we are on a sinking ship on this earth, etc, etc. 

Oh my word....that YW advisor is a perfect example of why I am so delighted by two hour church...less time for my kids to be taught other people's ideas dressed up as the gospel.

The truth is none of us knows for sure what he meant so the advisor was out of line giving g her interpretation as if it were truth. When I share my opinions on things like that, I follow it up with, "but that just my OPINION, what do you think? If you really want to know, praying about it is a good idea."  

Anyway...back to the topic...I don't think it was a threat. "I plead" and "please do it now" sound loving not threatening.  Besides threatening is not Pres. Nelson's style. I think it's just what he said.... a "heads up" to get our spiritual lives in order (all of us). That would be  consistent with what he has been saying since he became the prophet. It's a reoccurring theme. 

I don't think he was simply referring to the way we are all edging toward death. I believe he was warning us about something specific...what that is I don't know. Remember when the Savior was on the earth and many Jewish people were confused even though they had had many prophecies...but they misunderstood the prophesies. We too may be completely misinterpreting what is to come. 

The message I hope my children got was to prayerfully consider what they need to do to get their spiritual life in order, to be the most spiritually prepared they can be.  Ready for whatever comes. 

But this is all just my opinion. Have you prayed about it?  I didn't pray about it because I believe this is an ongoing theme and I have already been working to be spiritual me that I can be.

Edited April 30, 2019 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

15 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

If Jesus returns tonight, will this statement be falsified?

I agree. The millennium is plenty of time to raise a family and have grandchildren and great grandchildren and, and, and....

[Just_A_Guy]

I agree with @LiterateParakeet.  I think *something* is coming, and I think the days of it being socially acceptable to be a member of this church are nearing their end (at least for the rest of my foreseeable lifetime).  But, consider that we are about to embark upon an intensive four-year, multi-million dollar renovation and seismic upgrade of the Salt Lake Temple; and that President Nelson is statistically likely to be either dead or a vegetable by the time it’s done.  This is purely speculative, of course; but I don’t think he’d have begun a project like that if he were expecting an American apocalypse in the next decade or two.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Just_A_Guy

[mirkwood]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I agree with @LiterateParakeet.  I think *something* is coming, and I think the days of it being socially acceptable to be a member of this church are nearing their end (at least for the rest of my foreseeable lifetime).  But, consider that we are about to embark upon an intensive four-year, multi-million dollar renovation and seismic upgrade of the Salt Lake Temple; and that President Nelson is statistically likely to be either dead or a vegetable by the time it’s done.  This is purely speculative, of course; but I don’t think he’d have begun a project like that if he were expecting an American apocalypse in the next decade or two.

I disagree with the bolded.

I think it was Brigham Young who said if he knew the Lord was coming tomorrow he would plant a tree today (side note Martin Luther also said that.)

 

 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

19 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

I disagree with the bolded.

I think it was Brigham Young who said if he knew the Lord was coming tomorrow he would plant a tree today (side note Martin Luther also said that.)

I agree with your disagreement. Just think of the Nauvoo temple...they worked so hard on that even in their last days in Nauvoo.  

[The Folk Prophet]

5 hours ago, Mores said:

But just because there is a warning, does not mean it is threatening.

How are you distinguishing the two one from another?

[Just_A_Guy]

I

37 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

I disagree with the bolded.

I think it was Brigham Young who said if he knew the Lord was coming tomorrow he would plant a tree today (side note Martin Luther also said that.)

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I agree with your disagreement. Just think of the Nauvoo temple...they worked so hard on that even in their last days in Nauvoo.  

In that case, I’ll happily revert to my “sky-is-falling-and-it’s-all-teh-gayz-fault” pessimism.  

Edited May 1, 2019 by Just_A_Guy

[carlimac]

“Time is running out” didn’t startle me personally. It just sounded like more of the same caution we get every Conference to put our lives and houses in order. 

My son’s explanation of why he had a negative reaction was that he felt hurried or pushed by it. If a person is really going to “do the spiritual work”  to find out for themselves, it’s not something that can be hurried for everyone. 

Remember being a small child perhaps trying to tie your shoe or some other task that took a great amount of concentration to be ready so the whole family could go somewhere? And your parent was scolding you, saying “hurry up”-trying to push you faster than you could do it? The frustration? The feeling that you just couldn’t keep up? That intimidation?  I think that’s the feeling he got when he heard it. Perhaps a tinge of impatience rather than loving encouragement. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by carlimac

[The Folk Prophet]

2 minutes ago, carlimac said:

If a person is really going to “do the spiritual work”  to find out for themselves, it’s not something that can be hurried for everyone. 

Why not?

4 minutes ago, carlimac said:

Remember being a small child perhaps trying to tie your shoe or some other task that took a great amount of concentration to be ready so the whole family could go somewhere. And your parent was trying to push you faster than you could do it? The frustration? The feeling that you just couldn’t keep up? That intimidation?  I think that’s the feeling he got when he heard it. Perhaps a tinge of impatience from someone rather than loving encouragement. 

This example would work if spiritual work equated analogously to learning to tie one's shoes or such things. I don't think that analogy works very well.

The spiritual work isn't above anyone's abilities. It is a plain matter of choice.

I don't see any reason why we cannot hurry to choose and do something we are all capable of.

How we come to Christ is a simple truth that is the same for all. It is not based on our intelligence, strength, skill, or any such thing. It is merely our willingness. Nothing more or less.

[carlimac]

2 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Why not?

This example would work if spiritual work equated analogously to learning to tie one's shoes or such things. I don't think that analogy works very well.

The spiritual work isn't above anyone's abilities. It is a plain matter of choice.

I don't see any reason why we cannot hurry to choose and do something we are all capable of.

How we come to Christ is a simple truth that is the same for all. It is not based on our intelligence, strength, skill, or any such thing. It is merely our willingness. Nothing more or less.

Because not everyone is the same. I think the Lord knows everyone well enough that they will be judged according to their abilities to comprehend. Not everyone can change their lives, their mindset, their hearts instantaneously. 

I think the example works well. I understand my son and what he has gone through and why he had ended up where he is. Even if he were willing and wanted to change immediately, he has some things that would take some re-learning, re- orienting and a whole lot of study and prayer. Having someone standing over him telling him time is running out isn’t going to make him do all that faster or more willingly. It only increases anxiety.

[The Folk Prophet]

5 minutes ago, carlimac said:

Because not everyone is the same.

Irrelevant. God doesn't ask us to be the same.

5 minutes ago, carlimac said:

I think the Lord knows everyone well enough that they will be judged according to their abilities to comprehend.

Which supports my point.

6 minutes ago, carlimac said:

Not everyone can change their lives, their mindset, their hearts instantaneously. 

Actually no one can.

That isn't relevant to the counsel to get in gear and do the work.

8 minutes ago, carlimac said:

I think the example works well.

Here's where it fails: If we are trying and learning and doing our best but never quite get the hang of tying our shoes, do you believe that we are damned? Does God judge us on our ability to tie shoes, or on our efforts to try and tie shoes?

Pres. Nelson told us to get to work learning how to tie our shoes. Nothing more.

[carlimac]

21 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Irrelevant. God doesn't ask us to be the same.

Which supports my point.

Actually no one can.

That isn't relevant to the counsel to get in gear and do the work.

Here's where it fails: If we are trying and learning and doing our best but never quite get the hang of tying our shoes, do you believe that we are damned? Does God judge us on our ability to tie shoes, or on our efforts to try and tie shoes?

Pres. Nelson told us to get to work learning how to tie our shoes. Nothing more.

It may fail in your mind but works perfectly in mine. Sorry.

[The Folk Prophet]

34 minutes ago, carlimac said:

It may fail in your mind but works perfectly in mine. Sorry.

Because you believe God will condemn us even if we tried our best?

[clwnuke]

On Sunday night my father-in-law passed away. He allowed me to give him a blessing for the first time ever that evening. I released him from the cares and concerns of mortality and blessed him with peace and help from heaven. He passed away peacefully three hours later. He was a good man, but not religious.  His time on earth ran out, but I'm quite certain that he's doing some on-site family history work now.

When I hear President Nelson say time is running out, I think of all the blessings the Gospel could have provided my father-in-law before Sunday. Every day that we don't reach out spiritually to receive those blessings, we are missing out on the joy they can bring. 

[Anddenex]

7 hours ago, carlimac said:

“Time is running out” didn’t startle me personally. It just sounded like more of the same caution we get every Conference to put our lives and houses in order. 

My son’s explanation of why he had a negative reaction was that he felt hurried or pushed by it. If a person is really going to “do the spiritual work”  to find out for themselves, it’s not something that can be hurried for everyone. 

Remember being a small child perhaps trying to tie your shoe or some other task that took a great amount of concentration to be ready so the whole family could go somewhere? And your parent was scolding you, saying “hurry up”-trying to push you faster than you could do it? The frustration? The feeling that you just couldn’t keep up? That intimidation?  I think that’s the feeling he got when he heard it. Perhaps a tinge of impatience rather than loving encouragement. 

We all should feel the hurry and push from prophetic warning. There is a reason why we are informed in scripture to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, because we know there is a judgement to come. When people are not able to "hearken" to plain invitations, the Lord increases the invitation with the warning. This doesn't minimize the invitation, but makes it apparent, that we can either humble ourselves or be compelled to be humble (in whatever manner the Lord sees fit).

The analogy you give I think is wonderful for our youth, 12 years and younger, maybe even up to the end of being a Teacher or Mia Maid. Your son though isn't a child learning how to tie his shoes. He is going through medical school. What I do find interesting, is how his words have invoked different choices and thoughts (although this is nothing new from scripture). I know of a young woman (senior year high school) who hasn't been to church in a long time (probably two years or more). She decided to listen to general conference and heard the words of President Nelson, "time is running out." Her decision was to act and to take the warning seriously. So much so she called her young women's president and asked how she could get her life in order.

I am sorry carlimac, the decision of your son must bring heartache and tears at times (I would think), and the desire to love and protect him is always the state of a loving mother.

[priesthoodpower]

13 hours ago, carlimac said:

In one of his Conference talks he said, " Now, as President of His Church, I plead with you who have distanced yourselves from the Church and with you who have not yet really sought to know that the Savior’s Church has been restored. Do the spiritual work to find out for yourselves, and please do it now. Time is running out."

 

In regards to the new "Come Follow me" family home learning curriculum, My local leaders said that in 20 years will see the difference between those who have been doing it and those who have not. So I guess the world is good for at least the next 20yrs. Personally I believe this statement is meant on a more individual basis in that we need to get our act together, I also know that there are lessons in life that I would never have learned, that God needed me to learn, had I not been down the darker paths in life...those lessons for me happen on the lords time and on the plan he has for me individually.  

11 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Oh my word....that YW advisor is a perfect example of why I am so delighted by two hour church...less time for my kids to be taught other people's ideas dressed up as the gospel.

 

I agree, the LDS church as well as any other church or religion gets less and less popular the more they try to describe past or future events/stories/prophets with "I think...Im guessing...I believe..."

Our leaders are steering the church in the right direction. Less middleman, more direct relationship to God by doing personal searching and studying. One day we may never need to step foot in a chapel, just log on from home and worship via the internet on a live stream. Half the church roster who are already inactive would re-activate because they still love God but dont feel they fit in with their local wards.

[Guest Mores]

10 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

How are you distinguishing the two one from another?

Dictionary.com may be helpful.

Quote

Threat: a declaration of an intention or determination to inflict punishment, injury, etc., in retaliation for, or conditionally upon, some action or course; menace:

Quote

Warn:  

to give notice, advice, or intimation to (a person, group, etc.) of danger, impending evil, possibleharm, or anything else unfavorable:

to urge or advise to be careful; caution:

[Guest Mores]

12 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

This is purely speculative, of course; but I don’t think he’d have begun a project like that if he were expecting an American apocalypse in the next decade or two.

10 hours ago, mirkwood said:

I disagree with the bolded.

I think it was Brigham Young who said if he knew the Lord was coming tomorrow he would plant a tree today (side note Martin Luther also said that.)

Mirkwood,

Doesn't your statement actually contradict JAG's statement?  The multi-year project which Pres. Nelson is initiating may not be finished in his lifetime, nor prior to the Second Coming.  It may be completed afterward.  

JAG,

The works of God continue even through the apocalypse.   They continue even into the Millennium.   Why would commencing such a project indicate that the Second Coming is a ways off?