The Friend Who Started Hating Me


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I’ve always been sensitive. Seriously, like, since birth. For example, one of my first memories is of my siblings playing The Magical Quest Starring Mickey Mouse on the Super Nintendo (#throwback) and in it, Pete (the mean bulldog that is Goofy’s frenemy) has kidnapped Mickey’s dog, Pluto, so he’s the final boss. But let me tell you, guys… He looks like a straight up BULLY. He’s all red with rage and has a weird staff that’s head is like, an alligator? Anyway, I couldn’t handle how angry he looked. I sobbed so loudly that my dad came in from mowing the lawn and made my siblings turn off their game. (#sorrynotsorry) Basically, I’ve never liked when people are mean, even if that person (or bulldog, I guess) is fictional. So when people are mean to me? It crushes me. I’m talking a wear-my-sweats, devour-pounds-of-ice-cream, cry-in-my-bed level of devastation. Or at least, it used to. Until I figured out that how people treat me? It's not a reflection on me at all....

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I've had stuff like that happen to me too.

I had a similar epiphany but I got there via a different route.

It occurred to me to wonder why *I* was the one bending over backward to fix things.  Why *I* was the only one making an effort to communicate and find out what happened.  How come the other person wasn't trying to communicate too?  Why weren't they as invested as I was in clearing the air or, at least, clarifying what the problem was, whether it could be remedied or not?

The answer was:  Because I was the one who was invested in fixing it, not them. 

You can't make the other person care if they don't... and if they were your friend until recently, then it's been brewing a while and the fact that this is the first time you're hearing of it means they don't want to fix it and never did.  That doesn't reflect on you.  A good person who was a good friend would have spoken up long ago if these were legitimate issues.  The fact that they didn't bring it up sooner suggests the problems aren't genuine.

Yeah, it sucks and it's painful and you feel helpless because if they don't care then they don't care.  You can't force the issue.  All you can do is acknowledge that they're the ones with a problem.  Maybe they've got a legitimate gripe or two, but if they aren't willing to talk to you about it then all you can do is disregard and move on.

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Guest MormonGator
21 minutes ago, unixknight said:

You can't make the other person care if they don't...

A very tough lesson to learn.  Very tough. I've been there too, for the record. 

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Guest Mores
46 minutes ago, unixknight said:

I've had stuff like that happen to me too.

I had a similar epiphany but I got there via a different route.

It occurred to me to wonder why *I* was the one bending over backward to fix things.  Why *I* was the only one making an effort to communicate and find out what happened.  How come the other person wasn't trying to communicate too?  Why weren't they as invested as I was in clearing the air or, at least, clarifying what the problem was, whether it could be remedied or not?

The answer was:  Because I was the one who was invested in fixing it, not them. 

You can't make the other person care if they don't... and if they were your friend until recently, then it's been brewing a while and the fact that this is the first time you're hearing of it means they don't want to fix it and never did.  That doesn't reflect on you.  A good person who was a good friend would have spoken up long ago if these were legitimate issues.  The fact that they didn't bring it up sooner suggests the problems aren't genuine.

Yeah, it sucks and it's painful and you feel helpless because if they don't care then they don't care.  You can't force the issue.  All you can do is acknowledge that they're the ones with a problem.  Maybe they've got a legitimate gripe or two, but if they aren't willing to talk to you about it then all you can do is disregard and move on.

Looking at it from a psychological perspective, it seems evident that the women treating each other poorly is quite different from men treating each other poorly.  And then it is a completely different picture when women treat men poorly or men treat women poorly.

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Quote

it dawned on me: how Lizzie was treating me—how she saw and felt about me—had nothing to do with me, and everything to do with her.

Wisdom!  I remember how my whole life just got easier when I realized this.  I put it in different words: "Life got a lot easier when I stopped caring what most people think about me".   The realization came with another - that I was responsible for choosing how I wanted to live, and why.  Gaining a testimony a few years later was a massive relief, because now I knew the hows and whys (or at least, where I was going to go for all the hows and whys).

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Guest LiterateParakeet

Yes, along the line of "it's about them not you"....something that I go back to when I need to remember that lesson is something a wise man told me, "The Savior was perfect and still not everyone liked him."  

I've been "ghosted" as my kids would call it too.  I don't know why people do that, but at least I know its them not me. 

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Guest Mores

I recognize the following may sound sarcastic.  It is not.  It is meant to be sincere.  I guess I'm not as good a person as others here seem to be. 

When someone hates me, there is usually a good reason for it.  Not that I intentionally do things to be hateful or whatever.  But when I confront someone about it, they can give me very clear examples of things I've done.  When it is brought to my attention I usually go through a period of introspection and self analysis.   If I find that what they're saying is correct, then I have to make a decision.  Was my reason for doing what I did worth the other person thinking poorly of me?  If so, then I stick to my guns.  If not, I'll do my best to change.  And as I choose to change, I'll find it easy to apologize from the bottom of my heart.

Conversely, when I'm mad at someone else I usually have to ask myself if I have ever done that to someone.  If I think about it long enough, I can usually remember a time when I've done something similar.  And once I consider the reasons why I did what I did, I usually find it much easier to forgive that person who is now offending me.  The thing is that I find it easy to forgive others of almost anything simply because I have so many faults.  And I really HATE being a hypocrite.  So, when it's right in my face like that, I really have no choice but to forgive others.

... as for the article... I have no idea why "Lizzy" would refuse to explain what Amy did that got her so upset.  I'm reminded of the old farce "Well, if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you!"  Where on earth does that come from anyway?

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Guest LiterateParakeet

@Mores I had a Lizzy type experience.  I'll share in case it would be helpful. 

I was in a Primary Presidency and another sister and I had become really close.  Then one day she stopped taking my calls, she wouldn't come to the door when I dropped by, and her daughter brought me back some stuff I had loaned her. Worst of all, she stopped coming to church...I think because she didn't want to see me in Primary. 

I saw her several months later at a community event and she hugged me and acted like nothing had ever happened. That was the last time I saw her. 

I would never have known what the problem was except for a conversation that I had with a mutual friend. The friend who ghosted me told the other friend that someone at church had offended her (the third friend didn't know I was the one, she was just relating what she knew about why this woman had stopped coming to church.) 

From there I figured it out. One day in Sacrament, they announced, "Please excuse--Brother so and so who is in the Bishopric---he had to work today." 

My friend was bugged by the announcement as she felt it was justifying working on the Sabbath. I told her some times, you cant avoid it, and they were just letting people know he wasn't sick or something. But she wasn't having it. She kept going on and on. So finally I said, "Well, its really not that different than going to the store on the Sabbath for milk and toilet paper." Which I knew she had done....

That was our last conversation before she ghosted me.

Edited by LiterateParakeet
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13 minutes ago, Mores said:

... as for the article... I have no idea why "Lizzy" would refuse to explain what Amy did that got her so upset.  I'm reminded of the old farce "Well, if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you!"  Where on earth does that come from anyway?

This last bit is the whole point...  Someone who keeps the lines of communication open still has some level of investment in the relationship and people can work with that.  Once a person has chosen to cut all communication with you well that is their choice not ours...  Yes you/we most likely "did something" but you/we shouldn't beat yourself up with a bunch of 'what ifs' because it will not repair the relationship. 

It is one thing to know where the other person thinks you wronged them... It is entirely another to try guessing and fixing in the dark.

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Guest MormonGator
33 minutes ago, Mores said:

When someone hates me, there is usually a good reason for it. 

That's a sad truth in life. When we wake up and realize that yes, sometimes we act like scumbags to other people. In fact, most of the biggest scumbags I know are the ones who think they are angels. 

I was asked once if I was the victim of bullying when I was a child. I said that I was, then I took a long look at myself and realized that I probably bullied other kids too. No one is perfect. Groundbreaking moment in my life because I realized that even I was guilty of being a jerk. A lot of the time actually. 

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Guest Mores
25 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

@Mores I had a Lizzy type experience.  I'll share in case it would be helpful. 

I was in a Primary Presidency and another sister and I had become really close.  Then one day she stopped taking my calls, she wouldn't come to the door when I dropped by, and her daughter brought me back some stuff I had loaned her. Worst of all, she stopped coming to church...I think because she didn't want to see me in Primary. 

I saw her several months later at a community event and she hugged me and acted like nothing had ever happened. That was the last time I saw her. 

I would never have known what the problem was except for a conversation that I had with a mutual friend. The friend who ghosted me told the other friend that someone at church had offended her (the third friend didn't know I was the one, she was just relating what she knew about why this woman had stopped coming to church.) 

From there I figured it out. One day in Sacrament, they announced, "Please excuse--Brother so and so who is in the Bishopric---he had to work today." 

My friend was bugged by the announcement as she felt it was justifying working on the Sabbath. I told her some times, you cant avoid it, and they were just letting people know he wasn't sick or something. But she wasn't having it. She kept going on and on. So finally I said, "Well, its really not that different than going to the store on the Sabbath for milk and toilet paper." Which I knew she had done....

That was our last conversation before she ghosted me.

Further evidence that I'm apparently worse to people than you are.

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Guest Mores
17 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

This last bit is the whole point...  Someone who keeps the lines of communication open still has some level of investment in the relationship and people can work with that.  Once a person has chosen to cut all communication with you well that is their choice not ours...  Yes you/we most likely "did something" but you/we shouldn't beat yourself up with a bunch of 'what ifs' because it will not repair the relationship. 

It is one thing to know where the other person thinks you wronged them... It is entirely another to try guessing and fixing in the dark.

You know, I guess I've had really good friends then.  Nearly anyone I've wronged has been willing to at least tell me what I've done wrong. Now that I've had time to think about it, there have been a few who simply refused to talk to me anymore.  One of them, I knew what I had done.  And I was really apologetic.  He still didn't forgive me.  A couple of others... well, let's just say that I didn't miss them all that much.

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1 minute ago, Mores said:

You know, I guess I've had really good friends then.  Nearly anyone I've wronged has been willing to at least tell me what I've done wrong. Now that I've had time to think about it, there have been a few who simply refused to talk to me anymore.  One of them, I knew what I had done.  And I was really apologetic.  He still didn't forgive me.  A couple of others... well, let's just say that I didn't miss them all that much.

Exactly... There is nothing you can do for the ones that will not forgive or will not tell you what you need to fix....  For those we need the "didn't miss them" attitude you have.. However for people that depend on external sources (besides Christ) for validation that is a very hard lesson to learn.

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2 hours ago, Mores said:

Looking at it from a psychological perspective, it seems evident that the women treating each other poorly is quite different from men treating each other poorly.  And then it is a completely different picture when women treat men poorly or men treat women poorly.

Generally speaking I agree.  Guys tend to be more likely to let you know what you did wrong, if for no other reason than it justifies a counterattack.  (Not necessarily a physical attack.  Retaliation takes many forms.)  That said, people of both sexes who are highly confrontation averse might ghost you, or an introvert might ghost you for a while even if he's a guy but in general he'll eventually make sure you know what he's mad at you about.

As I look back over friends I've lost, the guys do tend to be the ones that ended in a blowout, the women just disappeared.  But that's just my own experience.

For me,  the biggest thing I had to overcome was to be objective, not only in being able to see where I had done wrong, but also where I hadn't.  Misunderstandings happen, but sometimes people might get mad at you for no reasonable cause.  Being able to tell the difference is crucial, because you can't maintain a genuine friendship by being a doormat.

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Guest MormonGator
Just now, unixknight said:

Generally speaking I agree.  Guys tend to be more likely to let you know what you did wrong, if for no other reason than it justifies a counterattack.  (Not necessarily a physical attack.  Retaliation takes many forms.)  That said, people of both sexes who are highly confrontation averse might ghost you, or an introvert might ghost you for a while even if he's a guy but in general he'll eventually make sure you know what he's mad at you about.

As I look back over friends I've lost, the guys do tend to be the ones that ended in a blowout, the women just disappeared.  But that's just my own experience.

For me,  the biggest thing I had to overcome was to be objective, not only in being able to see where I had done wrong, but also where I hadn't.  Misunderstandings happen, but sometimes people might get mad at you for no reasonable cause.  Being able to tell the difference is crucial, because you can't maintain a genuine friendship by being a doormat.

What I've noticed (and yes, this is just my observations, nothing more)-

John and Chris are like brothers. They've been friends for years. They get into a fight over something. Punches are thrown. Chris wins. Then they shake hands and move on. Usually they remain friends. 

Sarah and Kristen are like sisters. They've been friends for years. They get into a fight over something. Nasty words are said. No winner. They never speak again. 

I'm not trying to be funny, I'm not trying to score points, and yes, I carry grudges forever and I'm a guy. But this just what I've seen in my life. 
 

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