Preemptive Romance Advice

[Guest Mores]

I thought it would be interesting to hear various people's dating advice and advice on romantic relationship (NOT sexual).  Specifically, what would be the advice you'd give to someone in the single dating scene right now.  For the older people here, I'd ask you to think of any advice you thought worth giving to your children.  For the younger people who still remember pre-marriage life, tell us of successes and pitfalls in your recent life.

Here are my rules for dating/courting.

1. Sweep a woman off of her feet.

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TO BOYS:

You don't want to date a woman who expects to be swept off of her feet every day.  You also don't want to date a woman who CAN'T or WON'T be swept off her feet every day.

On the flip side...

Don't spend all your time trying to sweep a girl off of her feet.  There's more to a relationship than that.  You also need to make sure you will sweep her off of her feet at a time of maximum effect.

TO GIRLS:

Don't expect a man to sweep you off your feet all the time.  But don't settle for a man who simply CAN'T or WON'T sweep you off your feet.

2. In younger years, you're not really looking for marriage. You're just looking to learn social graces and begin to understand what male/female relationships are like.

3. Confidence is the balance point between arrogance and humility.  That is the point you want to be in.

4. True romantic feelings always cause some level of fear because love is something that you simply cannot control in others.  You can't MAKE someone love you.  You work, you hope, you pray, you try, you dream, you bribe, and you even beg.  But in the end, you're putting your heart in someone else's hands.  This goes both ways.  The best way to deal with this obstacle is with a dose of confident humor.  Measure your humor to be just enough to counter the discomfort from asking someone to put their heart on the line.  Too much and you just seem like a clown.

What advice would you give?

[NeuroTypical]

Your heart, your mind, and your soul, are like your three friends giving you advice.  The advice doesn't always match.  Your soul is pretty much always a good friend.  Your mind will sometimes tell you you're better than you actually are.  Your heart is often drunk, and will often give bad advice.   Get to know your date over 6 months to a year, then start getting your three friends on the same page.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

I'm a reader; I always have been. So recently I found a book that I am going to give all my kids when they return from their missions (better get one in the mail to my son....)  

The book is called How to Avoid Falling in Love with a Jerk by Jon Van Epp, PhD.  Seriously great advice about relationships by a marriage and family therapist. One of the things I loved about this book was how science validates our gospel teaching to avoid sex before marriage. If I could make this book required reading for singles of all ages, in and out of the church, I would!   You can also get it on audible!

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

28 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Your heart, your mind, and your soul, are like your three friends giving you advice.  The advice doesn't always match.  Your soul is pretty much always a good friend.  Your mind will sometimes tell you you're better than you actually are.  Your heart is often drunk, and will often give bad advice.   Get to know your date over 6 months to a year, then start getting your three friends on the same page.

I think you would love the book I suggested above, because he talks about something similar...about keeping various aspects of your relationship in balance, because when you don't its harder to listen to warnings or heed red flags.  He also says that some negative patterns don't emerge for at least three months, so don't get serious in a shorter time than that.

[Guest Mores]

27 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I'm a reader; I always have been. So recently I found a book that I am going to give all my kids when they return from their missions (better get one in the mail to my son....)  

The book is called How to Avoid Falling in Love with a Jerk by Jon Van Epp, PhD.  Seriously great advice about relationships by a marriage and family therapist. One of the things I loved about this book was how science validates our gospel teaching to avoid sex before marriage. If I could make this book required reading for singles of all ages, in and out of the church, I would!   You can also get it on audible!

Can you give some examples of the pearls of wisdom that Dr. Van Epp offers?  I usually don't order a meal unless I've had some samples first.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

1 minute ago, Mores said:

Can you give some examples of the pearls of wisdom that Dr. Van Epp offers?  I usually don't order a meal unless I've had some samples first.

No problem. I shared a couple above in my post to Neurotypical. I have to run, but I'll come back and share some more later. 

[Guest Mores]

2 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

No problem. I shared a couple above in my post to Neurotypical. I have to run, but I'll come back and share some more later. 

Ok.  I went back and found ... one... no premarital sex.  But "a couple"?  I don't see anything else.  

So, yes, I'd appreciate a few more when you have time.

[Guest Mores]

Just to get this back to my original intent.  I'm talking about how to initiate relationships.  It is not about building and growing long term relationships.  I tend to believe that is mostly just plain gospel principles.

But the thing is that no one really talks about initiating the relationship.  I'm not exactly talking about "how to become a pickup artist."  I'm talking about advice to give a boy or girl in how to ask someone out on a date that will ease tensions and increase the chances of getting to "yes".  I'm talking about Alex Hitchens.  I'm talking about transitioning from a "just friends" relationship to a romantic one.  How do you do that?

The reason I started this, honestly, is that my children are of an age where this is a big thing.  And they really don't know what they're doing.  One of them did a good job asking a girl out.  So I began doing an analysis of his exchange for the benefit of the others.  Yes, I do believe there is a science to romance.

Anyway, they have no problem finding friends.  But a boyfriend/girlfriend or simply an official "date"... this is where they are.  And one of them is old enough that I should have grandkids by now.  And I'm beginning to worry.

[mordorbund]

My advice: You can choose to marry anyone from the list we provide since we've already pre-screened them and their families. If you're ready to move forward and we haven't provided a list yet, feel free to make your own. Both parties reserve the right to veto the entire list and start from scratch.

 

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"This is why we need arranged marriages" - mordorbund

 

[anatess2]

5 hours ago, Mores said:

What advice would you give?

MGTOW.  

[clwnuke]

Just some random, not well thought out or reviewed thoughts

1. Keep the field wide open. Consider everyone you respect and associate with as a possible courting partner. Most importantly, don't narrow the list to just the attractive ones. Life has taught me that attraction can come after getting to know someone.

2. Date people long enough to get over the "honeymoon phase" so you can see clearly. Or, if you've known this person long enough to know their character and values, begin dating to determine if you are compatible in more intimate types of discussions.

3. Narrow the field to those that make you want to be a better son or daughter of God after being with them. Which person makes you want to be more worthy before God, and makes you feel like they are your biggest supporter and advocate for righteousness? Kinda how I feel after a great General Conference Priesthood session.

4. Consider the results of a weeding test. Take them on a service project to go weeding in a garden or a flower bed and see if you guys can work happily together. Marriage is far more work than daily bliss. I encouraged all my daughters to weed test their boyfriends and not to ignore the results.

5. Pray, pray, and pray again. But act wisely and proactively if no specific guidance is given. It's hard to see when you are young, but you really can have a successful marriage with many different types of people as long as the marriage is built upon righteous foundations.

Final Note: Recognize that no matter who you date and marry, both of you will change over time. Commit to being loyal through all of the changes, recognizing that in extreme circumstances marriages may need to end.

I sure wish I'd been wise enough to do all this when I was young!

 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by clwnuke

[beefche]

1 hour ago, clwnuke said:

 

2. Date people long enough to get over the "honeymoon phase" so you can see clearly. Or, if you've known this person long enough to know their character and values, begin dating to determine if you are compatible in more intimate types of discussions.

 

 

 

My issue with this statement is that my honeymoon phase lasted the whole year we dated and through our 2nd wedding anniversary. No way on Earth would I date someone for over 3 years to get out of the honeymoon phase. 

My advice to youngin's is to listen to those closest to you (parents, friends, spiritual leaders). Because we are in love, we sometimes can't see red flags or just things that may make us not compatible. They love us and have our best interests in mind. So listening to their thoughts or concerns can help us see issues that we may not see. Obviously, these loved ones cannot make the decision for us, but they can help us. 

Sorry, that advice isn't moving from friends to more but rather to dating to engagement/marriage. 

 

[Just_A_Guy]

Dating advice:

First pick an activity/event that you like.  Then, pick a person you’d like to do it with; and invite them.  Be your own person throughout the process, and in your quest to find someone you love, don’t forget to also make sure it’s someone you like.

[anatess2]

7 hours ago, Mores said:

But the thing is that no one really talks about initiating the relationship.  I'm not exactly talking about "how to become a pickup artist."  I'm talking about advice to give a boy or girl in how to ask someone out on a date that will ease tensions and increase the chances of getting to "yes".  I'm talking about Alex Hitchens.  I'm talking about transitioning from a "just friends" relationship to a romantic one.  How do you do that?

I'll tell you what my husband did.  We met at a dance club.  His friend talked to me, my husband didn't even approach the table.  I left, he chased me down the freeway.  I walk over to his car ready to chop his head off, and he says, "I just want to take you to breakfast".  So we ended up at Denny's at 3AM.  Then he left town to work.  When he came back, he found out I was working with a bunch of cute young, single, male Bosnian refugees and I found out he was a runway model with a job description that includes helping super cute female models get dressed... he went and helped me with the Bosnians, hung out with friends watching movies and playing arcade, argued about capital punishment and Virtua Fighter, attended mass at my Catholic church, etc. etc.  We became good friends that spent time together when our paths cross or there's nothing better to do.  He saw me at my worst temper, I saw him drunk as a skunk and that kind of stuff.  But he also saw me at my best and he impressed me with his protective instincts when some psycho slashed all my tires.   2 years later, he asked me to hang out with him and not to bring anybody else.  He took me to his church (his first time back from being inactive) and asked me to marry him.  2 weeks later we were married.

It is my firm belief that "asking someone out on a date" is one way you get fooled into thinking you got yourself a winner because that's all you do in dates - see somebody on their best behavior while their worst behavior is hidden in the closet because you want to score a spouse.  Be friends, no expectations.  If you still like the girl after you've seen her with snot running down her face yelling at everybody and kicking the cat, go ask her to marry you and hope she says yes.

But hey, what do I know.  I'm just some random girl on the internet.

Edited May 3, 2019 by anatess2

[Guest MormonGator]

Dating advice: 

Be yourself and don't listen to the rules of anyone else when it comes to finding a life partner. Why works for Lisa and Steve might be the exact opposite of what works for Tina and Mike. 

Have fun and do not take dating/life so seriously. A dark sense of humor will get you incredibly far. 

Adopt an "us against the world" state of mind. If you let anything come between you  two, that's a problem. 

Once every few months, go on a crime spree. You would not believe how much stress committing random acts of arson and vandalism releases. 

@LadyGator and I have been together for 17 years, for the record. When missionaries and other people ask how we've managed to stay together that long, we usually give this advice.  
 

Edited May 3, 2019 by MormonGator

[Latter-Day Marriage]

You've got to love and accept yourself first.  If you need approval from somebody else to validate your existence you will always be putting on an act to be what you think will get your that approval instead of being yourself.  When you realize rejection tells you something about them, not about you, then you lose the fear of it and you are ready for a healthy romantic relationship.

Then you can meet and interact with others while being your true self without fear of rejection, without being needy or 'on the hunt'.  Somewhere along the way you will meet somebody that you'll have a spark with.  Kindness, respect, being open and honest with them will feed that spark.  Serving them and seeking their happiness will fan the flames.  Get to know what their relationship needs are and do your best to meet them.  Don't try to fit them into some mold of what you want, help them achieve what is important to them.  Be their cheerleader and champion, protector and partner.  Big romantic gestures are good now and then, but don't overdo it, focus more on building the emotional bond through everyday stuff.

 

[Fether]

My wife and I refer all newly engaged couples to two books, both written by Latter-day Saint authors.

1) And They Were Not Ashamed (https://www.amazon.com/They-Were-Not-Ashamed-)

This one is about sexual fulfillment in marriage, a topic rarely taught by parents, never spoken of in church, and incorrectly taught at school lunch tables. It is fantastic and I recommend it to every engaged couple, newly wed or couple struggling with the topic.

 

2) His Needs Her Needs (https://www.amazon.com/His-Needs...) this one is the absolute basics of how to get along and meet each other’s needs. It breaks down a lot of preconceived and incorrect notions in marriage and explains them in a way that helps couples understand each other’s needs. Absolutely incredible. Me and my wife’s relationship and understanding for each other was pretty good from the start, but this book propelled it even higher.

[Latter-Day Marriage]

On 5/2/2019 at 1:03 PM, Mores said:

But the thing is that no one really talks about initiating the relationship.  I'm not exactly talking about "how to become a pickup artist."  I'm talking about advice to give a boy or girl in how to ask someone out on a date that will ease tensions and increase the chances of getting to "yes".  I'm talking about Alex Hitchens.  I'm talking about transitioning from a "just friends" relationship to a romantic one.  How do you do that?

Just don't make it a bigger deal than it has to be.  'Hey, I'd like to get to know you better, would you like to go out for dinner Friday night?' is a lot easier to say yes to than asking somebody to commit up front to a romance.  When that evening is over, if things went well, you can say you'd love to go out again with them and gauge their reaction and take it from there.  When you go to the park to feed pigeons you don't chase after them and pelt them with bread crumbs.

[WandererO]

 

 

 

On 5/2/2019 at 11:03 AM, Mores said:

Yes, I do believe there is a science to romance.

People tend to live and have habits that they are used to. I agree with your statement about having a science to it. It's not all science but there are some aspects. A person tends to show all of their "habit" in a three month time period. This is the suggested time people recommend you know someone before you get serious with them. People often try to portray their best selves while first getting to know someone, but tend to show all of their true colors after a three month time period. My rule for myself and what I am going to tell my future kids is that you should know someone for 6-9 months before you consider marrying them. That's at least two or three sessions of scientific all of their "habits" "repetitions" and whatnot. 

Wish I had some resources to back up my info because it's hard to explain but that would be all my advice in the subject of getting to know someone enough to understand them and not just the person they want you to see.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

@Mores  Dr. Van Epp's main message is a concept he developed called the Relationship Attachment Model (RAM).  Relationships are built on five areas: know, trust, rely, commit and touch.  These represent the ways that we connect in relationships.  If one of these is out of balance, then it makes it harder to make wise decisions about the relationship.  The most obvious example would be sex.  When a couple has sex before marriage, it creates a bond in the area of touch that is way out of sync with how the other areas have developed.  It creates a false intimacy, such that when one (or both) see some red flags later that this relationship is not a good match, they are likely to ignore them.   The physical part is obvious to us as Latter-Day Saints, but not so obvious to non-members.  Not so obvious, however, is how the other elements of the relationship can also get out of balance and skew our good judgement in selecting a partner.  Too much knowledge or trust, without developing the other areas can lead to poor decision making. 

I will be giving a copy to all my single kids.  

Edited May 5, 2019 by LiterateParakeet

[anatess2]

On 5/5/2019 at 4:20 AM, LiterateParakeet said:

@Mores  Dr. Van Epp's main message is a concept he developed called the Relationship Attachment Model (RAM).  Relationships are built on five areas: know, trust, rely, commit and touch.  These represent the ways that we connect in relationships.  If one of these is out of balance, then it makes it harder to make wise decisions about the relationship.  The most obvious example would be sex.  When a couple has sex before marriage, it creates a bond in the area of touch that is way out of sync with how the other areas have developed.  It creates a false intimacy, such that when one (or both) see some red flags later that this relationship is not a good match, they are likely to ignore them.   The physical part is obvious to us as Latter-Day Saints, but not so obvious to non-members.  Not so obvious, however, is how the other elements of the relationship can also get out of balance and skew our good judgement in selecting a partner.  Too much knowledge or trust, without developing the other areas can lead to poor decision making. 

I will be giving a copy to all my single kids.  

Not that I don't appreciate Dr. Epp's concepts, but when I read these kinds of things I can't help but feel these doctors are making it way too complicated.  Relationships built on 5 areas... meh.  Relationships are built on a cycle of loving and forgiving.  Over and over and over and over.