Here’s a tough one!!


carlimac
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Meh.  I've lived in worse.  What can be done?  Have them committed?  Have the place condemned and send them to a shelter?  The child is a concern, but the adults are adults.  If they are ill you'd think the doctors would know.  How do they pay their bills?

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I am in agreement with @Jane_Doe, and I am also in agreement with other posters mentioning who a person would report them to?

If there is a husband, he should be cleaning up the mess (IMHO) not the ward. If he wants his wife home, buck up and clean up bucko. As to potential danger, if there is black mold, that can be dangerous to humans, and some people are more susceptible.

My father helped with a family once and felt an impression to leave. He didn't follow it because it was the "Christlike" thing to do to help. He still suffers from some sort of illness that has been linked to that day. My dad says he said to himself, "If I am doing the right thing helping my neighbor, God will protect me." He has shared this story multiple times, saying, "Even if it is the 'Christlike' thing to do, and you feel an impression to not help or leave -- you leave." If they think you are unChristian, so be it.

I am sure this isn't easy, and I can understand the RS position, but with that dirty of a place I see nothing wrong in saying to the husband and adult daughter, "Once you have made this place more sanitary, we will come then come and assist with other cleaning up." Tough love?!

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FTR,  black mold is an overstated danger. Yes, in heavy concentration over a prolonged period, it can be dangerous to human health. In addition, ripping out walls infested with black mold will spread the spores everywhere. But there's nothing special about black mold. It's just mold. Mainly, you have to know that your typical bleach solution won't really work to kill it. The bleach is toxic to the mold reachable on the surface, but soon enough, the underlying mold will come right back. You need to clean off all the mold you can, then spray with a special mold-killer that you can buy at any Home Depot for about $15/gallon.

EDIT: Would you believe $35/gallon? My bad.

Edited by Vort
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I don't have any suggestions. I can't even solve a similar, though somewhat less toxic situation, that I have faced for years.

What I would like to say is, even though you and your Ward leadership may not be perfectly well equipped  or handle the task in ways not everyone will approve, nevertheless,  Thank You!, Thank You!, Thank You!, for doing what you can to help this struggling family, come what may. ❤️

Thanks,, -Wade Englund-

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21 hours ago, Grunt said:

Meh.  I've lived in worse.  What can be done?  Have them committed?  Have the place condemned and send them to a shelter?  The child is a concern, but the adults are adults.  If they are ill you'd think the doctors would know.  How do they pay their bills?

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The child is 18 - BUT she has been living like this for how many years! SHE is the one who needs to be educated on personal & household hygiene.

Doctors only know what they are TOLD by their patients. They no longer make house calls and thus see the unhealthy state of the house.

They just may get disability, welfare, the husband could even work. And even the MOST severe hoarder isn't really money/bill paying stupid. Direct deposits started back in the early 80's, auto-pay has also been around for decades too. 

20 hours ago, Anddenex said:

I am in agreement with @Jane_Doe, and I am also in agreement with other posters mentioning who a person would report them to?

If there is a husband, he should be cleaning up the mess (IMHO) not the ward. If he wants his wife home, buck up and clean up bucko. As to potential danger, if there is black mold, that can be dangerous to humans, and some people are more susceptible. <<snip>>

I am sure this isn't easy, and I can understand the RS position, but with that dirty of a place I see nothing wrong in saying to the husband and adult daughter, "Once you have made this place more sanitary, we will come then come and assist with other cleaning up." Tough love?!

 

Health department comes to mind. He may not want his wife home, did we read she is mentally unstable? He should have been involved from day one - heavy lifting, shoveling crap out of the house, taking the pets to the shelter for adoption into healthier homes, etc.

we will come and help you both primer and paint all the surfaces.

19 hours ago, Vort said:

FTR,  black mold is an overstated danger. Yes, in heavy concentration over a prolonged period, it can be dangerous to human health. In addition, ripping out walls infested with black mold will spread the spores everywhere. But there's nothing special about black mold. It's just mold. Mainly, you have to know that your typical bleach solution won't really work to kill it. The bleach is toxic to the mold reachable on the surface, but soon enough, the underlying mold will come right back. You need to clean off all the mold you can, then spray with a special mold-killer that you can buy at any Home Depot for about $15/gallon.

EDIT: Would you believe $35/gallon? My bad.

 

Everything goes up in price over the years, but still at $35.00 a gallon, then the cost of a sprayer it is still way cheaper than hiring professionals or the home being condemned.

Also, with mold, the cause MUST be hunted down and corrected. When a young husband/father here in my little town died and the cause was discovered as black mold, the authorities got involved. Took them 3 months to discover it was coming from a tiny leak in the cold water pipe the hose to the washing machine was connected to. The machine was housed in the garage next to the wall that was adjacent to their bedroom where their bed was up against. 

 

Neither the wife, husband or the wife's mother [who was their babysitter] ever noticed the mold growing behind the washing machine. They never noticed the black mold growing and spreading on their bedroom wall either because of the homemade headboard that covered most of that wall and was *quilted* with black & grey print velvet fabric. The husband had severe asthma - thus the mold sickened him faster and lethally and not the wife. 

The house was a rental, and the homeowner put the wife and children up in another rental - one the health department checked out - while the walls, carpets, and subflooring were removed by professionals.

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9 hours ago, Iggy said:

The child is 18 - BUT she has been living like this for how many years! SHE is the one who needs to be educated on personal & household hygiene.

 

Health department comes to mind. He may not want his wife home, did we read she is mentally unstable? He should have been involved from day one - heavy lifting, shoveling crap out of the house, taking the pets to the shelter for adoption into healthier homes, etc.

 

 

 

The child is 18 but I've been told she may be "delayed" mentally. Hard to tell. I only had a brief conversation with her. If so I wonder if CPS should be involved, even though she is 18 in years.

Yes from what I understand the wife is "crazy", whatever that means. I asked the RS president if she was worried about the wife being extremely angry when she gets home and finds out all her stuff has been thrown away. She said, Yes but this was her husbands decision to do this so he'll have to be the one to face the consequences.

The husband has been involved since day one. He has bad habits himself but he was the one who contacted the RS president. He has been taking loads to the dump. The daughter has helped, too. Although her own bedroom needs lots of help, too. 

RS and bishop say they are going to work on getting them the help they need. I don't know what that entails. Again, I have no stewardship and may never find out since I bailed on the cleaning part. 

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4 minutes ago, carlimac said:

 Again, I have no stewardship and may never find out since I bailed on the cleaning part. 

Sounds to me as if you've followed the counsel contained in Isaiah :)

11  ¶ Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.

(Old Testament | Isaiah 52:11)

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20 hours ago, Iggy said:

The child is 18 - BUT she has been living like this for how many years! SHE is the one who needs to be educated on personal & household hygiene.

Doctors only know what they are TOLD by their patients. They no longer make house calls and thus see the unhealthy state of the house.

They just may get disability, welfare, the husband could even work. And even the MOST severe hoarder isn't really money/bill paying stupid. Direct deposits started back in the early 80's, auto-pay has also been around for decades too. 

 

1

I'm very familiar with hoarders, unfortunately.  My main point was in MY case most people knew, there just isn't a ton of things people can, or are willing, to do that don't run a high risk of making things worse.

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@carlimac  I believe there are only two options when someone cannot or will not take care of themselves. 

1.       Let them rot in their consequences

2.       Take over and take care of them.

#2 appears to be the most logical but if they are capable of taking care of themselves they will eventually rebel and hate you for taking care of them.

 

Joseph Smith said that we teach correct principles and let people take care of themselves.  I am of the mind that we do a disservice when we clean for someone without teaching them to clean for themselves – which means they should participate with the cleaning.  Of course the great exception are those that cannot (because of physical or mental capabilities) do it themselves – but even then they should be taught whatever it is that they can do.  If they are incapable of learning and cannot care for themselves – they should not have that option.  I believe that without someone's permission or a legally binding court order we technically cannot help or assist any legal adult.  And if their are not an adult - we must deal with the adult that controls their legal custody. 

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler
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