Please Don’t Ask Me When I’m Having Kids


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I have one son who isn't even 2 yet and people frequently ask me when I will be having another child. The thing is my husband and I have agreed we only want 1 child but I don't want to tell anyone that incase the Lord has other plans and I end up with another child, I wouldn't want people to think it was a mistake. So I awkwardly smile and want to die. Also , people at church seem oddly judgemental of parents who only want one child or only have one child. 

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5 minutes ago, Alia said:

 Also , people at church seem oddly judgemental of parents who only want one child or only have one child. 

It's very odd, and it's something converts have to adapt to. No one in the secular world has ever asked me about the kid issue. I also think how we were raised matters. Maybe it's the private, uptight New Englander in me but I was raised to keep questions like this to yourself. 

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10 hours ago, Mores said:

Believe it or not, I was able to help someone with that very issue.  And I'm not a urologist or OB/GYN.  But for the record, it was because I was close friends with them that I was even involved with the conversation.

And that is a significant difference; I have close friends that I will discuss various topics with, when I would seriously consider a restraining order if some random person I may or may not remember the name of from church brought it up uninvited.

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12 hours ago, Scott said:

Since my wife was a young teenager, her period days were the reverse of what is normal.   In a normal menstrual cycle, a woman will menstrate 3-5 days a month and then the cycle would be repeated the next month (or more accurately approximately a month).

My wife however, would menstruate for 30 days and then get a three day break of not menstruating before the next 30 menstruation would begin.   Since she'd loose too much blood and tissue, she had to be on birth control since about age 14.  She still has to be on birth control at age 47 even though her tubes were tied 15 years ago (under medical advice).  We're probably one of the very few couples who can't wait until she hits menopause.

Then you have the perfect answer; just rehearse it and prepare a Powerpoint with very detailed animations to help out.  Shoot for 10-12 minutes.  Word will get around fairly quickly after a few have been subjected to it.

8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

This is a weird question.  What help is anyone other than an oncologist going to offer with cancer? 

Obviously essential oils, colloidal silver and medical marijuana.

8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

What help is anyone other than an orthopedic going to offer a broken foot?

Nothing more than a splint if they're properly trained in first aid and a ride to the hospital, hopefully.  Broken bones are not something to go by Brother Earl's grandma's home remedies for, unless you just want to spend the rest of your life limping.

Let me put it very simply; barring the immediate aftermath of an injury, there are two women who are allowed to ask anything about my genitals; one is a very close friend for more than half my life and a nurse who used to work for a urologist.  The other is a relative and a doctor.  Any other woman bringing the subject up uninvited will get roughly the same handling as a child describing potty time during dinner.  Same goes for pretty much all men.

Exceptions are available for potential mates who can show relevance to the future of the relationship after an appropriate lead-up period and for trained professionals with verified credentials and a legitimate belief that I'm unaware of something their professional experience tells them I should know.

Others may allude to being willing to discuss the subject, but should be aware of the risk of having to sit through a 10-12 minute Powerpoint including various animated anatomical entities.

4 hours ago, dprh said:

Or, they may be so extroverted that they ask every question that crosses their mind without thinking of the impact.

You misspelled "neurotic and utterly unconcerned about the feelings of anyone who isn't their own Great and Holy self."

The most extroverted people I know are also the ones most aware of what lines one should not cross prematurely, or ever.

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15 hours ago, MormonGator said:

It's very odd, and it's something converts have to adapt to. No one in the secular world has ever asked me about the kid issue. I also think how we were raised matters. Maybe it's the private, uptight New Englander in me but I was raised to keep questions like this to yourself. 

I did have one person ask me how I kept it to only two. 

But he also mistook my ex fiance for my ex wife. If I'd married her in our prime like I should have, we'd probably have had at least a baseball team worth of kids pretty quickly. 

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On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 11:50 PM, Just_A_Guy said:

Not to threadjack, but for the last couple of years as I’ve read Pahoran’s epistle I’ve had the feeling that he was manipulating Moroni, just a bit.  Not that Pahoran was a bad guy; but he had an agenda, he wasn’t sure Moroni would buy into it, and he thus used Moroni’s own words to more-or-less compel him to do Pahoran’s bidding.  Again—not necessarily a bad thing; but the guy strikes me as having been a consummate politician. 

See how lawyers think?

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Guest Mores
11 hours ago, NightSG said:

You misspelled "neurotic and utterly unconcerned about the feelings of anyone who isn't their own Great and Holy self."

Although I may not line up with your position in this thread, dang it all if this ain't a funny comeback.

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On 5/20/2019 at 9:00 AM, Scott said:

I think in a way, that might have been easier, but we didn't know what to tell people.   At the time, it really isn't something we wanted talk about.

In a way I think it might have been easier if we could just tell people that we were physically unable to have children and leave it at that, but we were able to have children; it was just hard.  If people asked, we'd just say we're working on it.

That was years ago.  It's easier to talk about now.

Yes, it may seem unusual and it was unusual.   I hope this doesn't make anyone uncomfortable, but I will explain a bit on the situation.

Here's what was going on:

Since my wife was a young teenager, her period days were the reverse of what is normal.   In a normal menstrual cycle, a woman will menstrate 3-5 days a month and then the cycle would be repeated the next month (or more accurately approximately a month).

My wife however, would menstruate for 30 days and then get a three day break of not menstruating before the next 30 menstruation would begin.   Since she'd loose too much blood and tissue, she had to be on birth control since about age 14.  She still has to be on birth control at age 47 even though her tubes were tied 15 years ago (under medical advice).  We're probably one of the very few couples who can't wait until she hits menopause.

My wife could only go off birth control for short periods of time without very serious health risks (it's still the same to this day). It was frustrating because we would try to conceive and then she would have to go back on birth control.   We would try for her to go off birth control for longer periods of time (up to a few months), but it didn't work and she would have to go back on.  This went on for several years.  It was really frustrating and was really painful, especially for my wife.   She wasn't offended in any way when people would ask us when we were having kids, but she was really depressed about it and it would make her sad.    It wasn't about being offended, but just a reminder of her situation.  We'd just say that "we're trying" and try to leave it at that, but we had to do this for several years.  We really couldn't say that we were unable to have children and we didn't want to explain why it was taking so long.

 As far as LDS Social Services go, we hadn't approached the bishop yet because LDS Social Services was still trying to decide if we qualified as infertile or not and thus if we were eligible for the program.   We were stuck in a gray area.   We really weren't infertile, but it was very hard to conceive.  Technically being on birth control made us ineligible, but we had unusal circumstances and good reasons.  We were kind of stuck between fertile and infertile.  LDS Social Services was in the process of determining our eligibility and this took quite a while.  We could have gone to the bishop earlier, but we were waiting for the decision on eligibility.  At the time it wasn't something that was easy to talk about.  It would be easier now.

My intention isn't to shame the bishop.   As mentioned, he was a good man and felt really bad after he found out what was going on, especially since my wife just miscarried after trying all those years.  It was really bad timing.  

This is a bit of an odd suggestion but...perhaps helpful. Where I live we have a huge need for competent and reliable people to serve in callings, thus if you are conscientious and intelligent, you will have many opportunities to serve. Maybe your area is the same? So what one couple did in my area was volunteer to be travelling speakers. As we have many small branches, these units really appreciate a change of speakers. I was asked to fulfill this responsibility for awhile and it was great! You could speak on a similar theme until you got good at it!

Anyway my friends travelled about and discussed their trials and how they dealt with the trial through faith. They travelled through a large geographical area and discussed how they dealt with infertility. Over about 5 years two teenagers who heard the message decided that my friends would be the ideal people to adopt their children. Just a thought!

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23 hours ago, MormonGator said:

It's very odd, and it's something converts have to adapt to. No one in the secular world has ever asked me about the kid issue. I also think how we were raised matters. Maybe it's the private, uptight New Englander in me but I was raised to keep questions like this to yourself. 

I grew up in a small town where everyone went to the same baptist church and everyone knew everyone else's business so I am kind of used to people not keeping questions to themselves but it was never an issue for people to have one child. I just don't understand the issue of having one child at all. I feel like if I tell someone at church I don't want anymore kids they will think there is something wrong with me

Edited by Alia
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As a culture we are "all" not very meek (obviously I include myself). We allow ourselves to be bothered by specific statements or questions that we should more easily shrug or simply accept. I am reminded of Brigham Young's quote:

Quote

“He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool.”

Seeing we all are that "fool" at times, and in light of some thoughts stating that it isn't good or wise regarding asking these questions I am reminded of mine own parents. My parents had two children, and had decided themselves that two was enough. It was always great hearing this story because it always made me feel so good to know that after their experience with me as a baby -- my parents were DONE! LOL

A wise bishop asked my parents if they were planning on having more children. My parents emphatically said "NO!" The bishop pressed and then said something to this nature, "Please go to the temple, I feel you aren't done yet." To honor stewardship my parents went to the temple. They were informed, received revelation, that another child was on the way or wanted to come into our home but would not be able to without their choice. My sister was born.

The audacity (as the article author mentions, "God loves us whether we have expanded our families or not. So please, don’t ask me when I’m having kids, because really, it doesn’t matter to anyone but me, my husband, and God.") of this bishop asking about my parents plans and if they are done having children, not only once, but twice, he asked the same question to my parents. After my sister, once again, "Please go to the temple, I believe there is another child desiring to come to your home," so they went and thus I have my younger brother. After the second, the bishop never asked again.

In our time now, I can see so many people getting offended at a bishop's request. Even on Thirdhour I have read statements something to the nature of bishop's have NO right to ask these types of questions. Well, without a wise bishop's "intrusion" (as some would call it today) I wouldn't have two siblings. My younger brother is in part of the reason why I stayed faithful to the gospel in my youth. So "God" in this triangle of wife, husband, and God might actually be working through one of his key holders or even a ministering friend to help you see his will, rather than your own. People who can have children, but choose not to (initially) often aren't involving "God" anyway in that decision. The commandment is there, we don't pick and choose when we will keep a commandment, although I do like President Benson's thoughts on after having the first spacing is truly up to the parents. I do find it interesting though, how the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth becomes a commandment of "opportunity." (opportunity not best word but can't think of another)

The commandment is in place. I truly have compassion for friends who try and cannot have children. I have compassion for them also when they see others who so easily get pregnant and despite fasting, prayers, and many other things they are still unable to have children.

As some have shared though, sometimes, a well-intentioned bishop follows what he feels is right and ends up causing more harm to a family struggling already as read on this thread. These are unfortunate experiences.

It took six months and a miscarriage before my beloved went full-term with our first. So, I don't know the heartache involved with other couples waiting years before their first. To be frank, I don't think I would be like Pahoran with Moroni though if I was trying to live a commandment (although evidence wasn't showing it) and I was censored for it. I think I might have responded with a little less meekness than Pahoran. Na, I think I know I would have responded with a little less meekness.

Don't be offended and don't let it bother you if asked about having children, like this article, if asked about plans for children. I am asked all the time if we have plans to have more children. It is a question, not an interrogation. Its also an easy answer, no. I mean, if you don't have children yet, and are trying you can always banter back with them and say, "Yes, when pigs fly," and then watch the confusion on their face. Let them squirm a little and then answer the question honestly. :P

 

 
 
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53 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

The audacity (as the article author mentions, "God loves us whether we have expanded our families or not. So please, don’t ask me when I’m having kids, because really, it doesn’t matter to anyone but me, my husband, and God.") of this bishop asking about my parents plans and if they are done having children, not only once, but twice, he asked the same question to my parents. After my sister, once again, "Please go to the temple, I believe there is another child desiring to come to your home," so they went and thus I have my younger brother. After the second, the bishop never asked again.

 

Okay, sorry, I should honestly leave this thread alone because it's fine for people to have their own opinions and perspectives about things I write, but I do think this is misinterpreting the article and taking that quote somewhat out of context. This is written for an everyday member of the Church; obviously, if someone is in your stewardship and you feel prompted to ask this question, that's a completely different matter and you should always follow the Spirit. I'm not sending this article out as a statement to bishops and Relief Society presidents throughout the world; rather, I'm saying — as I mentioned previously — that we should think twice before we ask people such personal questions. Likewise, I'm not suggesting to members, "You should choose to take offense when people ask you sensitive questions! Get your pitchforks and torches ASAP!" but I am trying to promote sensitivity toward an issue that is difficult for many people for a variety of reasons. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, "Hey, let's be more sensitive and aware of others." I think people (in general, not you specifically, because I think you approached this in a tactful, respectful way) are quick to point the finger and say, "YOU'RE TAKING OFFENSE, YOU SPECIAL SNOWFLAKE!" without doing some introspection and saying, "Is there something I can learn from this? Is there a way that I can be more sensitive to others?" Yes, people should strive to not be offended, but people should also strive to not BE an offender. 

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4 hours ago, amykeim said:

Yes, people should strive to not be offended, but people should also strive to not BE an offender. 

This is a completely fair point, and perhaps because of mortal weakness this is something that those who need to adjust the most are the least likely to do. It seems to be that there are legitimate snowflakes running around being offended at everything and legitimate bullies out there bringing everyone down. There might not be much hope for these. As for those of us who don't go around looking to be offended or trying to be obnoxious jerks there is hope that we can all do better at finding middle ground and recognizing that the person asking us questions we'd prefer they didn't means no ill intent and also perhaps those who go around prying into people's personal lives can also learn to better recognize when a relationship is deep enough to go to such places.

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Guest MormonGator

Something very important to remember is that all of us have sensitive subjects and topics we'd rather not discuss in public, yes, even you reading this. Yes, even the ones reading this who like to call everyone else thin skinned or snowflakes. If you say you have no sensitive, personal subjects that you don't like to talk about there is a 99% chance you are lying. To both us and more sadly, to yourself. 

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2 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Something very important to remember is that all of us have sensitive subjects and topics we'd rather not discuss in public, yes, even you reading this. Yes, even the ones reading this who like to call everyone else thin skinned or snowflakes.

You only say that because you're a thin-skinned (reptilian) snowflake.

Quote

If you say you have no sensitive, personal subjects that you don't like to talk about there is a 99% chance you are lying. To both us and more sadly, to yourself. 

You only say that because I'm a thin-skinned (curmudgeonly) snowflake.

Edited by Mores
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Guest MormonGator
6 minutes ago, Mores said:

You only say that because you're a thin-skinned snowflake.

You only say that because I'm a thin-skinned (curmudgeonly) snowflake.

What I've noticed is that those throwing around the term "snowflake" turn into sniveling babies and love to play the victim whenever anyone says anything negative about their favorite sports team. Their favorite band. Their alma mater. Their favorite color. Their religion. Their ethnicity. Notice a pattern? 

I know a lady on my Facebook who complains about millennials being thin skinned, but if you say anything about the college she attended, she'll rant for hours and go one about how her school is treated so unfairly. Does she see the irony? Three guesses. 
 

Edited by MormonGator
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26 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

What I've noticed is that those throwing around the term "snowflake" turn into sniveling babies whenever anyone says anything negative about their favorite sports team. Their favorite band. Their alma mater. Their favorite color. Their religion. Their ethnicity. Notice a pattern? 

Given that we're all snowflakes.  What would be your solution?  Just stop talking to people?  Stop getting to know them?  It's easy to say that we just need to steer clear of "more personal" or possibly "more sensitive" topics until you get to know them better.  Wise advice.  Difficult to apply. 

How do you know what another person considers personal or sensitive until you get to know them better?  Some people's list of "first questions to ask" can be very sensitive or personal to others.

A woman asks another woman,"So are there any guys in your life?"  The second woman considers this sensitive because she's an in-the-closet lesbian.  How are you supposed to account for such things?  Another example, you greet a new couple in the ward.  Ask them if they have any kids.  They just lost their only child a year ago and are still affected by it.  How can you know?

I understand that this idea of asking "when are you having kids?" is considered personal.  I totally understand it and, being aware, I agree with it.  But to many it isn't all that personal.  It's just making conversation.

Instead of "solving the problem", perhaps a better question and line of thinking would be,"What do we do when such unintended offenses happen?"

@amykeim, that's an idea for a follow-up article.

Edited by Mores
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17 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

What I've noticed is that those throwing around the term "snowflake"

Is anyone willing to be honest enough to note that no one called anyone a snowflake, and that MormonGator is the first one who brought up the term via:

Quote

 

I've noticed that some people love saying insulting and rude things, than being shocked-shocked! When someone is insulted or offended by it. If I walk up to you and say "Your daughter is a whore." and you look shocked and appalled, then do I get to say "Ha ha ha look at the snowflake. I triggered him! Ha ha ha let's all laugh."

 

...and yet now, apparently, several are acting as if the actual response to the article was that everyone started calling people snowflakes...which never happened.

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1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Is anyone willing to be honest enough to note that no one called anyone a snowflake, and that MormonGator is the first one who brought up the term via:

...and yet now, apparently, several are acting as if the actual response to the article was that everyone started calling people snowflakes...which never happened.

LIterally, you are correct. 

Hyperbolically, Gator had a point.

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1 minute ago, Mores said:

LIterally, you are correct. 

Hyperbolically, Gator had a point.

I disagree.

Here's the conversation as I see it:

Article: Don't ask people when they're having kids.

People: Isn't it kind of problematic that people are getting so offended at the question?

MG and others: How dare you call people snowflakes and be so insensitive!?!

 

That's not "a point". That's an exaggerated strawman.

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Guest Mores
2 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

MG and others: How dare you call people snowflakes and be so insensitive!?!

That's not "a point". That's an exaggerated strawman.

You don't see the irony here, do you?

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Guest Mores
7 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

How about you plainly say what you mean instead of asking cryptic questions.

Past history has shown me that when I take time to write out a lengthy description of what I mean, too often people reply with a form of, "duh-uh.  I got that from the first line.  You didn't have to treat me like an idiot."

But since you asked, I'll treat you like an idiot.  Just kidding.  I don't think you're an idiot.  But I'll try to clear up my cryptic post.

Compare your post with what you're complaining about Gator's post.  You accused him of using an "exaggerated straw-man".  Basically use an exaggeration to say something that was never said.  But you just did the same thing to him.

Your faux quote: "How dare you call people snowflakes and be so insensitive!"  was never written by Gator.  You exaggerated his post that certainly contained a similar theme.  But it was exaggerated.  It was mischaracterized.  It was, apart from overall concept, nowhere near what he actually said.

Edited by Mores
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