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Guest Mores
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Guest MormonGator
1 minute ago, Vort said:

Do you ever hear people say, "I'm a liberal, and the waking nightmare that is this city is my fault and the fault of those like me"?

As often as I hear conservatives say "I'm a conservative, and you know, maybe rising suicide rates for gay teens might be our fault." 

But don't worry @Vort, I fully accept that self critique is only something the other side must do. 

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5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

As often as I hear conservatives say "I'm a conservative, and you know, maybe rising suicide rates for gay teens might be our fault.”

Given that society is drifting leftwards, and given the general question of cui bono; I daresay you’ve picked a poor example.  

But, one firestorm at a time. ;)  Your overall point is probably sound.  

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8 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

As often as I hear conservatives say "I'm a conservative, and you know, maybe rising suicide rates for gay teens might be our fault."

The difference is, of course, that San Francisco's deplorable state really is the fault of leftist policies and those who promote them. Such cannot be said for the suicide of supposedly homosexual teens. So it's a bogus comparison.

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Guest MormonGator
2 minutes ago, Vort said:

The difference is, of course, that San Francisco's deplorable state really is the fault of leftist policies and those who promote them. Such cannot be said for the suicide of supposedly homosexual teens. So it's a bogus comparison.

Actually it's a perfect comparison, more I think about it. We love asking the other side to second guess their views, but we don't hold ourselves to that standard. After all, if we did dare to think a second time, we might get to an uncomfortable conclusion.

Edited by MormonGator
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Guest MormonGator

And, even better-liberals stuck their head in the sand on the homeless issue, and it's roaring back to smack them in the face. Conservatives will stick their head in the sand on this or that issue...and it'll slap them in the face too. 

 

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2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Actually it's a perfect comparison, more I think about it. We love asking the other side to second guess their views, but we don't hold ourselves to that standard. After all, if we did dare to think a second time, we might get to an uncomfortable conclusion.

I don't mean to be offensive, but this is simply false, MG. Which part of my thesis do you disagree with? That idiotic leftist policies have directly led to the San Francisco debacle? Or that conservative beliefs and policies have not led to the suicide of homosexual teens?

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Guest MormonGator
45 minutes ago, Vort said:

I don't mean to be offensive, but this is simply false, MG

Not offensive at all. It would offend me if I thought you were right. 

Edited by MormonGator
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13 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Not offensive at all. It would offend me if I thought you were right. 

I guess that's fair. So which part of what I wrote do you disagree with? And if you agree with both parts, then how is my saying so similar to the leftist claims that conservative activities lead directly to the suicide of teens who classify themselves as homosexual? They are vastly dissimilar claims, one based in obvious truth and the other in the most specious and dishonest of garden-pathy characterizations.

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4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Actually it's a perfect comparison, more I think about it. We love asking the other side to second guess their views, but we don't hold ourselves to that standard. After all, if we did dare to think a second time, we might get to an uncomfortable conclusion.

Speaking of second guessing . . . 

(You should feel special, Gator.  I wouldn’t link to Q Salt Lake for just anyone. ;)  )

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Guest MormonGator
13 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Speaking of second guessing . . . 

Good! Never would I be more happy to be wrong in my entire life.

I still think I'm right, and no apologies. I'll need a lot more evidence.  I'm deeply concerned about the rising suicide rate, and yes, I know that no one on the forum, or in the church, wants even one person to commit suicide. 

16 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

 

(You should feel special, Gator.   )

I do, and it's taken me years to forget about my childhood and riding the short school bus. Thanks for bringing it up again you jerk! 

😉

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Guest Scott
7 hours ago, Vort said:

That idiotic leftist policies have directly led to the San Francisco debacle? 

OK, I'll bite.

What are all the leftists policies that led to the San Francisco debacle?  

Despite its problems, the area around San Francisco is still the wealthiest in the nation:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/34991163

Also, why are the poorest states conservative?

Edited by Scott
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31 minutes ago, Scott said:

OK, I'll bite.

What are all the leftists policies that led to the San Francisco debacle?  

Despite its problems, the area around San Francisco is still the wealthiest in the nation:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/34991163

Also, why are the poorest states conservative?

Apparently, the red-state standard of living is generally higher.  Blue staters are apparently spending most of that extra “wealth” just to keep from being evicted from their 900-square-foot, $4K-per-month apartments.  

One might also suggest, as progressives are wont to do, that much of global inequality today is due to the economic “north” having subjugated the economic “south” through military conquest in the mid-19th century, and having continued their exploitation right through the mid-twentieth century—and that what’s true for the world is also true for the US.  The southern US states might still be prisoners of dysfunctional leftist economic theory to this day, if the Democratic Party hadn’t begun bleating “middle-class-WASP-man-baaaaaad” in the 1960s—but they did, and many Dems in the south reconsidered whether those Lincoln Republicans might actually have been right about a thing or two after all, and now many of their economies are waking up—and if they still have some catching up to do, well, so do Zimbabwe and South Africa and Venezuela; but leftists are more than happy to give those states a pass.

As for San Francisco:  I cant speak to all its problems; but it strikes me that when your town is surrounded by water in three sides, and every square foot of land is taken, and massive sections of your city are full of these two-level Victorian town-homes and you refuse to let the owners tear them down and build higher-density housing:  sky-high real estate prices will be the inevitable result. 

Edited by Just_A_Guy
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19 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Actually it's a perfect comparison, more I think about it. We love asking the other side to second guess their views, but we don't hold ourselves to that standard. After all, if we did dare to think a second time, we might get to an uncomfortable conclusion.

Actually it's only a perfect comparison if the reality of the accusation holds true. Just suggesting that both God and Satan, for example, need to accept the same potential responsibility for the sorrow people have in following their principles isn't valid. Suggesting that the cause of sorrow is just as much on God's principles as it is on Satan's is not true.

There are good principles and their are bad ones.

I don't mean to equate all views on the right with God and all views on the left with Satan. I think each principle stands on its own. But the point is that if ideas are good then they're good. You can't just claim that everyone, no matter how righteous, has the same responsibility to "second guess" their righteousness and expect it to fly.

First, by their fruits ye shall know them. I don't second guess whether the brushing my teeth and bathing and eating right and exercising and being fiscally responsible, and working hard, and education, and kindness, and patience, and etc. are good ideas or not because I plainly see the fruits. Suggesting that the guy who eats donuts every day for lunch has the same responsibility to consider if that might not be such a great idea as the guy who eats wholesome, healthy meals is irresponsible at best.

And second, most conservatives DO second guess their positions, and third guess, and fourth guess, and come to the inescapable conclusion that leftist nonsense is nonsense, if for no other reason than from example after example, after example, including the rising suicide rate.

The logic is inescapably obvious to anyone who thinks about it even at a basic level.

Two questions: Are suicides rates growing? Yes. Is religious conservativism growing. No.

The two simply do not correlate.

It doesn't exactly take a genius to see that as liberal/leftist ideas are becoming more universally embraced that suicide rates are climbing right along-side. So who's fault is it really? 🤔

Rising suicide rates are the fault of leftist ideas.

This undying oft repeated suggestion that conservative principles cause suicide is a flat-out, blatant lie.

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Guest Mores
On 6/7/2019 at 10:58 AM, anatess2 said:

I gave you a link to help demystify the process.

I went and read the link.  All that said was that they have no accurate method of counting the homeless.  For all we know, there are many who are already doing what I suggested I might do in those circumstances.

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On 6/10/2019 at 7:47 AM, Mores said:

I went and read the link.  All that said was that they have no accurate method of counting the homeless.  For all we know, there are many who are already doing what I suggested I might do in those circumstances.

Exactly what I was trying to explain to you.  Homelessness is a complex multi-variant.  Therefore, to come up with a reasonable estimate, we eliminate specific documented factors that are signifiers of non-homelessness - like a stable job (easily documented) that put them above the poverty line.  A person who is living in a tent when they have the means to afford housing are not counted as homeless.  They are counted as housing code violators (if found out) and pursued by the government as such. 

So then, out of those who are in the poverty line, you come up with certain indicators that a person is homeless - for example, a person receiving social welfare (easily documented) with no known address - this can be determined using many factors for example, the social welfare recipient did not declare a physical address on the welfare document, or has an expired state ID, declared an address owned by somebody who did not declare them as a dependent (another document), or is not accounted for in the census (another document).  So basically, we throw as many documentable items that we can throw into the system to eliminate a person from the homeless count. 

This system cannot be guaranteed accurate, especially in the US, because people have freedom of movement and there is no guaranteed way for any government agency to document when a person enters a State/County/City and reside there.  They try their best with State ID requirements, Vehicle Registration, State Income and Property taxes, Census Bureau, etc., but if a person decides to move into a City, don't get a job, don't register a vehicle, don't purchase/rent property, don't apply for State ID, don't apply for state welfare, or get counted on the Census, etc... he is basically non-existent as far as these "counts" are concerned.  But once you get one document - even a simple public library card, then he is documented... and he starts to get entered into these systems that come up with these "counts stuff" when cross-referenced by other documents.

And this is basically how illegal immigrants hide in the US - they stay undocumented or use fake documentation.  They don't get counted for anything.  Which is a "huh?" tidbit when there's statistical count of illegal immigrants in the USA... that count is another story of another complex multi-variant system with an estimated number that has been disputed.

By the way, this same methodology is used to measure anthropogenic Climate Change... but the complexity of the variables that drive the Climate is waaaaaaay more unknown (undocumented) than what is known (documented) such that system engineers can only throw so few documents into their system models which makes their estimates mindbogglingly inaccurate. 

Just a sample of a very simple system that estimates Population count of an area using 4 documents - birth rate, life expectancy, migration, and immigration:  This is like kindergarten system compared to the collegiate system that estimates the dynamics of the homeless population.

AM84-Fig2.png

Edited by anatess2
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On 6/8/2019 at 12:11 AM, Scott said:

OK, I'll bite.

What are all the leftists policies that led to the San Francisco debacle?  

Despite its problems, the area around San Francisco is still the wealthiest in the nation:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/34991163

Also, why are the poorest states conservative?

Ok, I'll bite too.

Define wealthiest. What is true wealth...money? You say the conservative states are the poorest...well define poor then as well. The cost of living in many of those states is much cheaper, and just because the states are the poorest doesn't actually make the people "poor". Someone in Kansas making 45-50k is likely better off than someone in san fran making over 100k. Even then, you can't define the prosperity, happiness, and success of a state and it's people by how much money they make. Wealth does not equate to success in life.

As for which leftist policies have led to the debacle, there are too many, but for starters just go and read the san fran city council minutes. Look at how they continually dismiss average joe's that try to raise complaints and offer solutions. Look at how they decide to hire a "poop patrol" with each member having a 6 figure salary to manage the symptoms of homelessness and drug addiction without actually addressing the real problem...(they can't do that because asking homeless people to clean themselves up is a trigger and now a form of violence). They have to increase housing fees to be in compliance with the California Environmental Quality Act...which they helped pass. They passed an ordinance allocating over 25 million dollars to give people free syringe access and disposal services. They worry about how large the signage needs to be for the harvey milk terminal at the airport so everyone can see his name...they passed an ordinance requiring a minimum size for the sign. There is more an economy than money - the complete social structure of the bay area and most of california in general is falling apart. They do not address problems, their focus is severely blurred, and the city is going to crumble under the weight of it's own baggage. Rome didn't fall in a day, and neither will san fran...but it will fall.

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Guest Mores
36 minutes ago, scottyg said:

The cost of living in many of those states is much cheaper, and just because the states are the poorest doesn't actually make the people "poor". Someone in Kansas making 45-50k is likely better off than someone in san fran making over 100k.

Yes, I'd really appreciate a Purchase Power Parity comparison between states.  I'd bet that CA & NY would be much less than it is in other states.  And when you consider the higher taxes, it really shows up.

Louisiana is right next door to us.  And they are one of the "poorest".  But I've lived there and visited there.  They have all the modern conveniences.  Homes are scary cheap.  And prices are low on virtually everything.  The idea would be to somehow have California wages with Louisiana expenses.  That would be awesome.

But instead we have a person making $200k/yr in San Fran unable to make ends meet because of taxes and living expenses.

Louisiana has people making $30k/yr having all they need, putting money into savings, and not stressing much about money.

 

BTW, does anyone else find it funny that @Scott and @scottyg are debating each other?

Edited by Mores
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7 hours ago, Mores said:

Yes, I'd really appreciate a Purchase Power Parity comparison between states.  I'd bet that CA & NY would be much less than it is in other states.  And when you consider the higher taxes, it really shows up.

Louisiana is right next door to us.  And they are one of the "poorest".  But I've lived there and visited there.  They have all the modern conveniences.  Homes are scary cheap.  And prices are low on virtually everything.  The idea would be to somehow have California wages with Louisiana expenses.  That would be awesome.

But instead we have a person making $200k/yr in San Fran unable to make ends meet because of taxes and living expenses.

Louisiana has people making $30k/yr having all they need, putting money into savings, and not stressing much about money.

 

BTW, does anyone else find it funny that @Scott and @scottyg are debating each other?

Courtesy of BEA.gov -  As of 2017, $150.6 worth of Housing in California is equivalent to $75.2 in Louisiana - that's less than half!  Whereas, $103.5 basket of goods in California would cost $96.8 in Louisiana - not too big of a disparity.

 

SARPP Regional Price Parities by state
 
Bureau of Economic Analysis
State or DC
         
GeoFips GeoName LineCode Description 2017
00000 United States 1 RPPs: All items 100
00000 United States 2   RPPs: Goods 99.4
00000 United States 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 101.2
00000 United States 4   RPPs: Services: Other 100
01000 Alabama 1 RPPs: All items 86.7
01000 Alabama 2   RPPs: Goods 96.5
01000 Alabama 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 63.1
01000 Alabama 4   RPPs: Services: Other 93.3
02000 Alaska 1 RPPs: All items 104.4
02000 Alaska 2   RPPs: Goods 101.4
02000 Alaska 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 132.1
02000 Alaska 4   RPPs: Services: Other 95.6
04000 Arizona 1 RPPs: All items 96.4
04000 Arizona 2   RPPs: Goods 96.8
04000 Arizona 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 93
04000 Arizona 4   RPPs: Services: Other 98.4
05000 Arkansas 1 RPPs: All items 86.5
05000 Arkansas 2   RPPs: Goods 94.9
05000 Arkansas 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 62.1
05000 Arkansas 4   RPPs: Services: Other 93.3
06000 California 1 RPPs: All items 114.8
06000 California 2   RPPs: Goods 103.5
06000 California 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 150.6
06000 California 4   RPPs: Services: Other 107
08000 Colorado 1 RPPs: All items 103.2
08000 Colorado 2   RPPs: Goods 99.6
08000 Colorado 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 120.7
08000 Colorado 4   RPPs: Services: Other 97.7
09000 Connecticut 1 RPPs: All items 108
09000 Connecticut 2   RPPs: Goods 104
09000 Connecticut 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 113.1
09000 Connecticut 4   RPPs: Services: Other 109
10000 Delaware 1 RPPs: All items 100.1
10000 Delaware 2   RPPs: Goods 98.9
10000 Delaware 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 97.1
10000 Delaware 4   RPPs: Services: Other 103.3
11000 District of Columbia 1 RPPs: All items 116.9
11000 District of Columbia 2   RPPs: Goods 105.6
11000 District of Columbia 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 154.5
11000 District of Columbia 4   RPPs: Services: Other 109.5
12000 Florida 1 RPPs: All items 99.9
12000 Florida 2   RPPs: Goods 98.5
12000 Florida 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 106.7
12000 Florida 4   RPPs: Services: Other 96.9
13000 Georgia 1 RPPs: All items 92.5
13000 Georgia 2   RPPs: Goods 96.9
13000 Georgia 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 81.6
13000 Georgia 4   RPPs: Services: Other 95.2
15000 Hawaii 1 RPPs: All items 118.5
15000 Hawaii 2   RPPs: Goods 111.3
15000 Hawaii 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 156.4
15000 Hawaii 4   RPPs: Services: Other 103.2
16000 Idaho 1 RPPs: All items 93
16000 Idaho 2   RPPs: Goods 98.5
16000 Idaho 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 77.7
16000 Idaho 4   RPPs: Services: Other 96.7
17000 Illinois 1 RPPs: All items 98.5
17000 Illinois 2   RPPs: Goods 98.3
17000 Illinois 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 97.5
17000 Illinois 4   RPPs: Services: Other 99.2
18000 Indiana 1 RPPs: All items 89.8
18000 Indiana 2   RPPs: Goods 96.2
18000 Indiana 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 73.9
18000 Indiana 4   RPPs: Services: Other 92.7
19000 Iowa 1 RPPs: All items 89.8
19000 Iowa 2   RPPs: Goods 95
19000 Iowa 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 75.2
19000 Iowa 4   RPPs: Services: Other 90.9
20000 Kansas 1 RPPs: All items 90
20000 Kansas 2   RPPs: Goods 95.7
20000 Kansas 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 74.2
20000 Kansas 4   RPPs: Services: Other 92.6
21000 Kentucky 1 RPPs: All items 87.9
21000 Kentucky 2   RPPs: Goods 94.6
21000 Kentucky 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 67.1
21000 Kentucky 4   RPPs: Services: Other 93.1
22000 Louisiana 1 RPPs: All items 90.1
22000 Louisiana 2   RPPs: Goods 96.8
22000 Louisiana 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 75.2
22000 Louisiana 4   RPPs: Services: Other 93.3
23000 Maine 1 RPPs: All items 98.4
23000 Maine 2   RPPs: Goods 98.6
23000 Maine 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 92.5
23000 Maine 4   RPPs: Services: Other 101.6
24000 Maryland 1 RPPs: All items 109.4
24000 Maryland 2   RPPs: Goods 103.6
24000 Maryland 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 121.8
24000 Maryland 4   RPPs: Services: Other 106.8
25000 Massachusetts 1 RPPs: All items 107.9
25000 Massachusetts 2   RPPs: Goods 101.8
25000 Massachusetts 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 121.8
25000 Massachusetts 4   RPPs: Services: Other 106
26000 Michigan 1 RPPs: All items 93
26000 Michigan 2   RPPs: Goods 97.4
26000 Michigan 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 81
26000 Michigan 4   RPPs: Services: Other 95.3
27000 Minnesota 1 RPPs: All items 97.5
27000 Minnesota 2   RPPs: Goods 101.3
27000 Minnesota 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 96
27000 Minnesota 4   RPPs: Services: Other 94.1
28000 Mississippi 1 RPPs: All items 85.7
28000 Mississippi 2   RPPs: Goods 94.1
28000 Mississippi 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 62.8
28000 Mississippi 4   RPPs: Services: Other 93.3
29000 Missouri 1 RPPs: All items 89.5
29000 Missouri 2   RPPs: Goods 95.5
29000 Missouri 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 73
29000 Missouri 4   RPPs: Services: Other 92.3
30000 Montana 1 RPPs: All items 94.6
30000 Montana 2   RPPs: Goods 99.4
30000 Montana 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 83.1
30000 Montana 4   RPPs: Services: Other 94.7
31000 Nebraska 1 RPPs: All items 89.6
31000 Nebraska 2   RPPs: Goods 95.2
31000 Nebraska 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 74.7
31000 Nebraska 4   RPPs: Services: Other 91.1
32000 Nevada 1 RPPs: All items 97.6
32000 Nevada 2   RPPs: Goods 95.9
32000 Nevada 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 96.8
32000 Nevada 4   RPPs: Services: Other 100.5
33000 New Hampshire 1 RPPs: All items 105.8
33000 New Hampshire 2   RPPs: Goods 100.9
33000 New Hampshire 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 116.7
33000 New Hampshire 4   RPPs: Services: Other 104.8
34000 New Jersey 1 RPPs: All items 112.9
34000 New Jersey 2   RPPs: Goods 102
34000 New Jersey 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 130
34000 New Jersey 4   RPPs: Services: Other 114.8
35000 New Mexico 1 RPPs: All items 93.3
35000 New Mexico 2   RPPs: Goods 97
35000 New Mexico 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 80.2
35000 New Mexico 4   RPPs: Services: Other 99.1
36000 New York 1 RPPs: All items 115.8
36000 New York 2   RPPs: Goods 108.8
36000 New York 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 131.8
36000 New York 4   RPPs: Services: Other 113.1
37000 North Carolina 1 RPPs: All items 91.3
37000 North Carolina 2   RPPs: Goods 96.6
37000 North Carolina 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 79.7
37000 North Carolina 4   RPPs: Services: Other 93.3
38000 North Dakota 1 RPPs: All items 90.1
38000 North Dakota 2   RPPs: Goods 94.8
38000 North Dakota 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 78.3
38000 North Dakota 4   RPPs: Services: Other 90.8
39000 Ohio 1 RPPs: All items 88.9
39000 Ohio 2   RPPs: Goods 95.8
39000 Ohio 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 72.1
39000 Ohio 4   RPPs: Services: Other 91.7
40000 Oklahoma 1 RPPs: All items 89
40000 Oklahoma 2   RPPs: Goods 95.8
40000 Oklahoma 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 69.9
40000 Oklahoma 4   RPPs: Services: Other 93.3
41000 Oregon 1 RPPs: All items 99.5
41000 Oregon 2   RPPs: Goods 99.1
41000 Oregon 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 106.4
41000 Oregon 4   RPPs: Services: Other 95.9
42000 Pennsylvania 1 RPPs: All items 97.9
42000 Pennsylvania 2   RPPs: Goods 99.4
42000 Pennsylvania 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 86.4
42000 Pennsylvania 4   RPPs: Services: Other 102.9
44000 Rhode Island 1 RPPs: All items 98.6
44000 Rhode Island 2   RPPs: Goods 98.4
44000 Rhode Island 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 94.9
44000 Rhode Island 4   RPPs: Services: Other 101.5
45000 South Carolina 1 RPPs: All items 90.4
45000 South Carolina 2   RPPs: Goods 96.9
45000 South Carolina 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 77.2
45000 South Carolina 4   RPPs: Services: Other 93.3
46000 South Dakota 1 RPPs: All items 88.2
46000 South Dakota 2   RPPs: Goods 94.7
46000 South Dakota 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 70.2
46000 South Dakota 4   RPPs: Services: Other 90.7
47000 Tennessee 1 RPPs: All items 90.4
47000 Tennessee 2   RPPs: Goods 96.4
47000 Tennessee 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 76.3
47000 Tennessee 4   RPPs: Services: Other 93.3
48000 Texas 1 RPPs: All items 97
48000 Texas 2   RPPs: Goods 97.1
48000 Texas 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 94.5
48000 Texas 4   RPPs: Services: Other 98.5
49000 Utah 1 RPPs: All items 97
49000 Utah 2   RPPs: Goods 96.6
49000 Utah 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 93.9
49000 Utah 4   RPPs: Services: Other 99.6
50000 Vermont 1 RPPs: All items 102.5
50000 Vermont 2   RPPs: Goods 98.5
50000 Vermont 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 116.4
50000 Vermont 4   RPPs: Services: Other 101.4
51000 Virginia 1 RPPs: All items 102.1
51000 Virginia 2   RPPs: Goods 99.8
51000 Virginia 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 108.9
51000 Virginia 4   RPPs: Services: Other 100.5
53000 Washington 1 RPPs: All items 106.4
53000 Washington 2   RPPs: Goods 104.4
53000 Washington 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 119.5
53000 Washington 4   RPPs: Services: Other 101.6
54000 West Virginia 1 RPPs: All items 87
54000 West Virginia 2   RPPs: Goods 94.6
54000 West Virginia 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 61.4
54000 West Virginia 4   RPPs: Services: Other 94.9
55000 Wisconsin 1 RPPs: All items 92.4
55000 Wisconsin 2   RPPs: Goods 95.8
55000 Wisconsin 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 84.2
55000 Wisconsin 4   RPPs: Services: Other 92.9
56000 Wyoming 1 RPPs: All items 95.2
56000 Wyoming 2   RPPs: Goods 99.2
56000 Wyoming 3   RPPs: Services: Rents 85.7
56000 Wyoming 4   RPPs: Services: Other 95.3
Legend / Footnotes:
  Last updated: May 16, 2019-- new statistics for 2017; revised statistics for 2015-2016.
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Guest Mores
18 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Courtesy of BEA.gov -  As of 2017, $150.6 worth of Housing in California is equivalent to $75.2 in Louisiana - that's less than half!  Whereas, $103.5 basket of goods in California would cost $96.8 in Louisiana - not too big of a disparity.

Thanks for the analysis.  Now. let's include taxes.  I'm using all average numbers for each state.

  • CA Avg Income about: $64k
  • LA Avg Income about: $46k
  • CA state income tax: $8752
  • LA state income tax: $1690
  • CA property tax: $4384
  • LA property tax: $725
  • IRS: CA residents would pay about $3500 or more n federal taxes than LA residents, depending on deductions.
  • Sales tax: approximately $1000 throughout the year difference.

The income tax assumes $10k of deductions, etc. 
Property tax used an average home value.  I looked on various sites.  Each gave wildly different numbers.  But the ratios were pretty consistent.  I picked a set of numbers that was in the middle of the ranges I found.
Sales tax was ignored as a small portion of actual take home pay.

Grand total?  

CA Net income: $46,364
LA Net income: $43,585

6.4% difference.  That will be pretty much wiped out by cost of living differences by a large margin.  I'd prefer to make less money and be able to buy more than make more while barely making ends meet.

Note that the "basket of goods" (all by itself) is greater than 6.4%.  Then you add housing into the mix... whew!!!

So, @Scott, you wanna know why CA makes more money than LA?  As far as purchase power, they don't.

Edited by Mores
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On 6/7/2019 at 11:11 PM, Scott said:

OK, I'll bite.

What are all the leftists policies that led to the San Francisco debacle?  

 

Well you can start with proposition 47 passed in 2014.

The measure required misdemeanor sentencing instead of felony for the following crimes:

Shoplifting, where the value of property stolen does not exceed $950
Grand theft, where the value of the stolen property does not exceed $950
Receiving stolen property, where the value of the property does not exceed $950
Forgery, where the value of forged check, bond or bill does not exceed $950
Fraud, where the value of the fraudulent check, draft or order does not exceed $950
Writing a bad check, where the value of the check does not exceed $950
Personal use of most illegal drugs

In SF if your store is the victim of shoplifting the cops won't even try to get there in a timely manner. Why would they? there is no one to arrest and even if the caught the person it's a misdemeanor anyway, they write a ticket or hold them for a day and they are on their way.  Drug use in the street, yup. I see it daily. The criminal justice system is so over run that they do not enforce these "petty" crimes. So what is the result? Rampant homelessness and drug usage.

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2 hours ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

Well you can start with proposition 47 passed in 2014.

The measure required misdemeanor sentencing instead of felony for the following crimes:

Shoplifting, where the value of property stolen does not exceed $950
Grand theft, where the value of the stolen property does not exceed $950
Receiving stolen property, where the value of the property does not exceed $950
Forgery, where the value of forged check, bond or bill does not exceed $950
Fraud, where the value of the fraudulent check, draft or order does not exceed $950
Writing a bad check, where the value of the check does not exceed $950
Personal use of most illegal drugs

In SF if your store is the victim of shoplifting the cops won't even try to get there in a timely manner. Why would they? there is no one to arrest and even if the caught the person it's a misdemeanor anyway, they write a ticket or hold them for a day and they are on their way.  Drug use in the street, yup. I see it daily. The criminal justice system is so over run that they do not enforce these "petty" crimes. So what is the result? Rampant homelessness and drug usage.

You'd think even the most compassionate, sympathetic, militant leftist would get tired of all the many problems SF has. But you'd be wrong. They keep electing people who will just make the problem worse. 

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