Suffering


mikbone
 Share

Recommended Posts

From CFM June 10-16, I gather that there are three important reasons for suffering

Quote

 

Alma 7

11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people.

12 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.

13 Now the Spirit knoweth all things; nevertheless the Son of God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people, that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of his deliverance; and now behold, this is the testimony which is in me.

 

Quote

 

Doctrine and Covenants 19

16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;

17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;

18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—

19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

 

1) Via Christ's suffering, He was able to take upon himself the sins of his people and provide for us forgiveness and clean us every wit from sin.

2) Christ's sufferings also gave him an insight that provided him with mercy, so He would know how to succor his people.  

3) For those who do not repent, they will be punished, and must suffer even as the Savior did; but tragically it appears that this suffering will be in vain, as it will bring neither atonement, mercy nor compassion.   

 

No sane person welcomes suffering, but when it does occur, do we take advantage of the compassion that we can learn from the experience?

And 

Do you believe that those destined to suffer - even as Christ - will eventually receive some kind of redemption? 

 

Eternal Punishment and Suffering without purpose seems wretched. 

Edited by mikbone
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We just had a discussion at home about the extent of Jesus' atonement.  I am concerned that people are thinking he atoned to take away ALL pain - which I don't think is true.  He takes away the pain of sin as we repent but in regards to physical and emotional suffering not related to sin, he "knows how to succor them" or in other words comfort and sustain them - not take away the physical and emotional pain.  Am I wrong?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, mikbone said:

Do you believe that those destined to suffer - even as Christ - will eventually receive some kind of redemption? 

There is no sacrifice without suffering.  There is no exaltation and eternal life without sacrifice.  There is no greater sacrifice than the giving (offering) of one's life - both in death and in how one passes through mortality.

 

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, jdf135 said:

We just had a discussion at home about the extent of Jesus' atonement.  I am concerned that people are thinking he atoned to take away ALL pain - which I don't think is true.  He takes away the pain of sin as we repent but in regards to physical and emotional suffering not related to sin, he "knows how to succor them" or in other words comfort and sustain them - not take away the physical and emotional pain.  Am I wrong?

I believe there are two considerations.  First consideration is during our mortal probation - sacrifice and suffering is required in order to pass through mortality.  Suffering in part also means pain.  After we pass through mortality all pain will be taken away - with the exception of that for which we would not sacrifice, suffer and repent of in our mortality.

 

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, mikbone said:

From CFM June 10-16, I gather that there are three important reasons for suffering

1) Via Christ's suffering, He was able to take upon himself the sins of his people and provide for us forgiveness and clean us every wit from sin.

2) Christ's sufferings also gave him an insight that provided him with mercy, so He would know how to succor his people.  

3) For those who do not repent, they will be punished, and must suffer even as the Savior did; but tragically it appears that this suffering will be in vain, as it will bring neither atonement, mercy nor compassion.  

No sane person welcomes suffering, but when it does occur, do we take advantage of the compassion that we can learn from the experience?

And 

Do you believe that those destined to suffer - even as Christ - will eventually receive some kind of redemption?

Eternal Punishment and Suffering without purpose seems wretched. 

Regarding #3, I do not think the suffering in total vain because justice is served, albeit without the benefit of accepting the full level of mercy extended in mortality.

Yes, sometimes suffering results from choosing to take the high road as opposed to taking a lesser path as those in #3 do.

The repentant who suffer in #3 are heirs of salvation (D&C 138:59). I personally do not think it is possible to repent of a scheme to suffer for one’s own sins with the expectation to live with the very God whose high road was rejected.

The purpose of Eternal/God's punishment, in my mind, is to serve His justice and thus receive a reward according to one's works, which is what people who take this route tend to find acceptable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, jdf135 said:

We just had a discussion at home about the extent of Jesus' atonement.  I am concerned that people are thinking he atoned to take away ALL pain - which I don't think is true.  He takes away the pain of sin as we repent but in regards to physical and emotional suffering not related to sin, he "knows how to succor them" or in other words comfort and sustain them - not take away the physical and emotional pain.  Am I wrong?

I'd say He takes it all way in the long run, for those who exercise faith in Him. He took it all upon Himself, which is how He can in "vengeance" require it be put back upon the unrepentant. He was also given of the Father, as a result of his infinite and eternal sacrifice, the keys of healing, which I think transcends any presumed equation involving the balance of justice and mercy negotiated for mortality.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know someone who is suffering right now.  She feels sick and weak all the time and she is about forty-five years old.  She has felt this way for over two years.  Before her illness she ran multiple marathons and half marathons.  She has received multiple priesthood blessings and I pray for her almost everyday.  She is still not getting better.  It is sad to watch her.  She is losing hope and is depressed a lot.  I wonder when the hour of her deliverance will come.  I am hoping it is not like the woman in the New Testament who had an issue of blood for twelve years before the Savior healed her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Mores
17 hours ago, mikbone said:

From CFM June 10-16, I gather that there are three important reasons for suffering

1) Via Christ's suffering, He was able to take upon himself the sins of his people and provide for us forgiveness and clean us every wit from sin.

2) Christ's sufferings also gave him an insight that provided him with mercy, so He would know how to succor his people.  

3) For those who do not repent, they will be punished, and must suffer even as the Savior did; but tragically it appears that this suffering will be in vain, as it will bring neither atonement, mercy nor compassion.   

 

No sane person welcomes suffering, but when it does occur, do we take advantage of the compassion that we can learn from the experience?

And 

Do you believe that those destined to suffer - even as Christ - will eventually receive some kind of redemption? 

 

Eternal Punishment and Suffering without purpose seems wretched. 

Copycat!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you believe that those destined to suffer - even as Christ - will eventually receive some kind of redemption? 

Yes (except for the sons of perdition -- like unto Satan). All the kingdoms are "some kind of redemption."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/9/2019 at 9:49 PM, mikbone said:

From CFM June 10-16, I gather that there are three important reasons for suffering

1) Via Christ's suffering, He was able to take upon himself the sins of his people and provide for us forgiveness and clean us every wit from sin.

2) Christ's sufferings also gave him an insight that provided him with mercy, so He would know how to succor his people.  

3) For those who do not repent, they will be punished, and must suffer even as the Savior did; but tragically it appears that this suffering will be in vain, as it will bring neither atonement, mercy nor compassion.   

 

No sane person welcomes suffering, but when it does occur, do we take advantage of the compassion that we can learn from the experience?

And 

Do you believe that those destined to suffer - even as Christ - will eventually receive some kind of redemption? 

 

Eternal Punishment and Suffering without purpose seems wretched. 

Doctrine and Covenants 76 makes it clear that the suffering for one’s own sins, so graphically described in Doctrine and Covenants 19, is designed in the wisdom of God to help those suffering individuals develop authentic faith in Christ and a sincere desire to receive forgiveness through the promise of salvation extended to all mankind by virtue the atoning sacrifice of Christ. This process of enduring spiritual suffering, toward the goal of eventual personal redemption, is described in Section 76 as being cast into “the wine press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.” This great spiritual wine press, where one is caused to continually suffer the agonizing consequences of his own sins, continues until his heart is softened and he finally arrives at the point where he comes to the realization that he is doomed to suffer endlessly unless he chooses to gratefully receive the forgiveness and salvation extended to him through Christ’s redeeming love.

Edited by Jersey Boy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/11/2019 at 5:22 PM, Jersey Boy said:

This great spiritual wine press, where one is caused to continually suffer the agonizing consequences of his own sins, continues until his heart is softened and he finally arrives at the point where he comes to the realization that he is doomed to suffer endlessly unless he chooses to gratefully receive the forgiveness and salvation extended to him through Christ’s redeeming love.

So "endless" torment is endless only until repentance? ( 2 Ne 9:19, 26; 28:23 etc. ) .  Sounds merciful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jdf135 said:

So "endless" torment is endless only until repentance? ( 2 Ne 9:19, 26; 28:23 etc. ) .  Sounds merciful.

D&C 19: 4-12

“Nevertheless, it is not written that there shall be no end to this torment, but it is written endless torment.”

Does hint at mercy.  

Still gonna try to do my best to keep my nose clean and try to do as much of the repentance process that I can down here on Earth.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/16/2019 at 9:02 PM, jdf135 said:

So "endless" torment is endless only until repentance? ( 2 Ne 9:19, 26; 28:23 etc. ) .  Sounds merciful.

Yes, the reason why God’s punishment can be endless for some is because they steadfastly refuse to repent. Those who refuse to repent will continue to suffer for their sins until they finally learn to humble themselves before God and repent. There is no other way to escape from the grasp of eternal justice than to repent. The unpardonable sin of the sons of perdition, which causes them to suffer endlessly, is that they stubbornly refuse to repent until it is everlastingly too late, when the ability to sincerely repent is no longer in their nature. These are the only ones of which it has been said will remain “filthy still” after the final judgement. All the rest will be ultimately be forgiven and inherit a place in one of the Father’s many heavenly mansions of glory

..

Edited by Jersey Boy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Jersey Boy said:

As it was in the case of Alma the younger, the inflicting of justice is often the means which softens hearts and opens the doors to great outpourings of mercy.

Agree - justly experiencing natural consequences is often a big eye opener. 

 

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Traveler said:

Agree - justly experiencing natural consequences is often a big eye opener. 

 

The Traveler

Thank You for our support.  It is my observation that many parents attempt to protect their children from natural consequences more than they are willing to address behavioral changes to avoid such natural consequences themselves. 

 

The Traveler

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share