Oberlin College Verdict


Guest Mores
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Guest Mores

Oberlin College may now get slapped with an even bigger judgment for mouthing off against the jurors before they had looked at punitive damages.

Can anyone say schadenfreude?  Come to think of it, I'm not sure how many can :) 

Edited by Mores
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Guest Mores
12 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

I don't know that I like the precedent of holding institutions liable for the actions of individual members/adherents (see where I fear this is going?), but if it must be, there is no more deserving target than Oberlin.

It wasn't just any individual.  Not just one or two or any few.  It was a concerted effort by university administrators and faculty who used their authority to organize the students into protests and using school resources to do it.

Further, the official school channels suspended doing business with the bakery and threatened to never do business with them again.  And the important part of this was that it wasn't because of the "accusation" of racism that they would stop doing business.  It was the "fact" that they were racists.  Throughout the entire process, even after the verdict, the school maintained that the bakery was racist -- even thought police investigation found no evidence of such.  Not the students.  Not individual staff members.  The SCHOOL official channels outright stated they were racist.

--- As to your fear of where this is going...

If an individual Latter-day Saint does something libelous, that is like an individual student doing it.  Neither the Church, nor the school should be held liable. 

What if a bishop organizes a ward to go do something libelous?  No permission from HQ.  But still a low level official organizing the troops to do something wrong.  Gray area?  I believe protests should ensue and that bishop should be removed from his position, possibly excommunicated for his abuse of power (or unrighteous dominion).

Now, what if the 12 apostles got together outside of work and rallied thousands of members to a particular cause?  That would be, at the very least, an unethical use of their celebrity and influence (even if it wasn't through official channels).  But there would be a great case to say the Church should be held liable.  Anyone of high position in an organization must recognize that even their personal actions speak to the reputation of the organization itself.  The Dean of Students should have recognized this.

Now, if the Church public relations arm threatened to cease doing business because of X.  Can you really separate the actions of a single officer from the action of the Church?

Edited by Mores
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The Right to Free Speech has coexisted with the various Slander and Libel Laws here in the USA for a very long time.

They do need to be held in balance with each other but there is no reason to say we can only have one or another.

The courts are the place were such balances are weighed and determinations made.

"Free" Speech is not and has never been... "No one can ever hold you accountable for the Harm you cause" Speech.

 

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I agree with everything @Mores and @estradling75 say. They are 100% correct. In a sane world their arguments would be a firewall against those with anti-religious vendettas. Then again, in a sane world I would have believed those who said we faith folks should not worry about gay marriage. After all, they would never attempt to force us to participate--never force our bakers, photographers and florists to provide services to such events. Churches are being counseled to no-longer rent out their buildings for the weddings of non-members, lest they be forced to do so for gay marriages (once they place themselves in the marketplace . . . ). So, our world is no longer quite sane. Thus, my concern. Hopefully, I'm just gun-shy, Oberlin can pay the bakers the millions they deserve, and we won't have to battle those who want to litigate against entire churches because of the actions of one or a few.  

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