anatess2 Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 52 minutes ago, Traveler said: Whenever we speak about Law - especially as a standard, it is not an open concept. The point of any law is to create a standard that crosses lines of interpretation, cultural application and social political evolution. When we invoke religion (G-d) into this mix we may gain a quick advantage but what should be permanent is more likely to become temporary. According to you post - we must wonder if Muslims living in the Persian Gulf region are so unaware of Muslims as an example of a perfect Muslim society under Sharia Law. But I will be blunt in that throughout the middle east cultures those of Philippine dicent are not look on as pace setters in that they are not imported into the Middle East to take upon the most prestigious vocations. Hardly the intent of Sharia Law But I will give another example in asking a question - is the forcible wearing of a burka by Muslim women proper according to Sharia Law? If Islam cannot clearly define Sharia Law - how can the rest of the non Islamic world deal with it?, define it? or ir even recognize it? The Traveler Traveler, you are completely talking about Sharia Law from your limited American perspective. You said it yourself - there is no Muslim standard just as there is no Christian standard of authority. The LDS can shout from the rooftops about our authority and that WE have the true law of Christ, it does not change the FACT that Roman Catholics have Canon Law and Orthodox Catholics have their own different version of Canon Law and the Anglicans and the Church of England have their Canon Law and they're all different from each other. But one thing is for certain - they are all laws based on the Christian Bible and from the perspective of a non-Christian, Christians cannot clearly define Canon Law. But Canon Law it is, nonetheless. And non-Christians recognize it because CATHOLICS TELL YOU IT IS. So let's say some Greek Orthodox Church Bishop becomes governor of Minnesota and declares Minnesota to be under Canon Law. Are you going to argue that... oh it's not really Canon Law because it is different from the Vatican and the Orthodox are not "pace setters" in Rome? Does it matter what the Vatican or even the Greeks say about the requirement to wear a habit if the Minnesota Bishop's interpretation of Canon Law declares that all women have to wear it? The fact that the Philippines have Sharia courts does not have anything to do with Middle Eastern countries. It has everything to do with followers of the Q'uran in the Philippines and their interpretation of it. THE ISSUE REMAINS THE SAME - you have a country/state/region ruled by law completely different from other people's cultural upbringing and faith system and, in the case of the Philippines, contradictory yet autonomous to the Philippine Constitution. And by the way, you are completely wrong about the Muslims of the Philippines. The Philippines is a strategic jihad zone and the Muslims of the Philippines either are led by jihadists from the Levant, funded by them, or have strong ties to them. Why do you think ISIS took one of our cities? We've been neck deep in this Islamic war since World War II and we put up with Marcos because he was the reason the Philippines is not what Syria has become today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mores Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) On 6/18/2019 at 2:00 PM, Traveler said: My sources are not articles but individuals devout in Islam. And how does that settle the matter? Those in Saudi Arabia would consider themselves "devout in Islam." Yet, they consider themselves under Sharia Law. Who are you to tell them they are wrong? How much experience do these friends of yours have in traveling through these nations? How much knowledge and understanding do they have of the legal system of Utah (or anywhere else for that matter)? Edited June 20, 2019 by Mores Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mores said: And how does that settle the matter? Those in Saudi Arabia would consider themselves "devout in Islam." Yet, they consider themselves under Sharia Law. Who are you to tell them they are wrong? How much experience do these friends of yours have in traveling through these nations? How much knowledge and understanding do they have of the legal system of Utah (or anywhere else for that matter)? I have interfaced and consider many Islamic friends that have spent most of their lives in the Middle East. My Saudi friend is among one of the most interesting. He read the Book of Mormon I gave him and his comment was that he knew who the modern Gadianton Robbers are - He said they are the Royal Saudi Family? I find this quite interesting because another friend (from Bahrain) said the same thing after reading the Book of Mormon. Both were adamant that no society can claim Sharia Law and be governed by a King - even if the king is Islamic. It was my friend from Bahrain - who at the time - was living in Utah that said Utah is the "Closest" to living by Sharia Law - as he explained to me - it is not about courts or constitutions - it is about how one lives and treats their neighbors and devotes themselves to G-d. He said that our tithing, fast offerings and humanitarian aid are big - that Sharia Law is more about such things than it is about criminal justice. When I was involved in corporate I was involved with an international multi religious group that met weekly to coordinate activities and discus teachings. From time to time we would organize fireside like events to introduce religious concepts across different religion congregations. During this time I learned a lot about other religions. I was able to work with Eastern Orthodox clergy to release to the world the earliest New Testament texts (discovered over 150 years ago and kept in secret - the secret got out when Communism failed in Russia and they returned the texts which had been taken from the Russian church by the Communist when the Czar was overthrown. Unfortunately the texts were not released but are being maintained in reserve. A couple of things - Islam is far more active in trying to grow (expand) their religion in the west - in particular the USA. They are very open to inviting the public to their Friday prayer meetings. In the SLC area they have several mosques and unlike Christian churches a mosque is by divine law the property of all believers (Islam) as a gift from G-d but the reality is that there are divisions such that certain teacher dominate at various mosques.' It does not surprise me what @anatess2says about Islam in the Philippines. Islam is keen that all their scripture should not be translated but read in the original Arabic. It does not surprise me that the darker elements of Islam dominate in the Philippines. Especially by current standards in USA society - Islam is very racists in that regard. Often in my discussions with devout Muslims I suggest that G-d will call a prophet for all the world not just those that speak (read) Arabic and until the devout believers in Islam recognizes that principle, they should not tout themselves as a world religion but rather an Arabic language and culture only religion. Also as a side note - what most Anti-Mormons argue and try to discredit us with - most Muslims see as strength and proof that we are more divinely connected than other Christian religions that the Anti support - in short it hurts them greatly in Islamic communities much more than they realize. The Traveler Edited June 20, 2019 by Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 My Muslim friend took a dim view of the al-Saud family, to the point that he disliked the term "Saudi Arabia" and bristled at being called a "Saudi". Midwest LDS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 28 minutes ago, Traveler said: It does not surprise me what @anatess2says about Islam in the Philippines. Islam is keen that all their scripture should not be translated but read in the original Arabic. It does not surprise me that the darker elements of Islam dominate in the Philippines. Especially by current standards in USA society - Islam is very racists in that regard. What are you trying to say here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted June 20, 2019 Report Share Posted June 20, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Vort said: My Muslim friend took a dim view of the al-Saud family, to the point that he disliked the term "Saudi Arabia" and bristled at being called a "Saudi". Is your friend Shia? Or Persian? My closest Muslim friend is Sunni but Persian. He detests being called Arab even as he shares the same sect of Islam with the majority of Arabs. Edited June 20, 2019 by anatess2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 18 hours ago, anatess2 said: What are you trying to say here? Those that are not expert and affluent in the Arabic language and culture are not and cannot be as close to G-d as those that are. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Traveler said: Those that are not expert and affluent in the Arabic language and culture are not and cannot be as close to G-d as those that are. The Traveler What does this have to do with Filipino Muslims? There are 49 distinct languages spoken in the Philippines. One of them is Arabic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mores Posted June 21, 2019 Report Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Traveler said: Those that are not expert and affluent in the Arabic language and culture I was not aware that being expert in Arabic language and culture made one affluent. How very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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