Midwest LDS Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 On 7/1/2019 at 11:20 AM, Mores said: We had a proper system when I was a child. But with each passing decade, the government got more and more involved, causing more and more problems. Finally, people cried out "The System IS BROKEN!!!" Yeah, guess who broke it. Amen brother. Before Obamacare was passed, I actually was able to use my health insurance. It wasn't perfect but it worked and kept me healthy. Since then my costs have skyrocketed, I can no longer afford to go to the doctor despite being insured (I panicked when I was seriously bit by a dog because I didn't have the thousand dollars it cost me to go to the hospital), and my quality of life has taken a big nosedive. Government isn't the solution it's the problem. NightSG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Mores said: You need to read more Thomas Sowell. Amen. One could easily make the case that FDRs policies caused the great depression to get worse and last longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Mores said: You need to read more Thomas Sowell. Amen. One could easily make the case that FDRs policies caused the great depression to get worse and last longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Mores said: You need to read more Thomas Sowell. Amen. One could easily make the case that FDRs policies caused the great depression to get worse and last longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 hours ago, MormonGator said: Amen. One could easily make the case that FDRs policies caused the great depression to get worse and last longer. 2 hours ago, MormonGator said: Amen. One could easily make the case that FDRs policies caused the great depression to get worse and last longer. 2 hours ago, MormonGator said: Amen. One could easily make the case that FDRs policies caused the great depression to get worse and last longer. Nothing to worry about folks. Sometimes a convert repeats himself because it's difficult to shake the Call and Response from their former days. Midwest LDS 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mores Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, MormonGator said: Amen. One could easily make the case that FDRs policies caused the great depression to get worse and last longer. 4 hours ago, MormonGator said: Amen. One could easily make the case that FDRs policies caused the great depression to get worse and last longer. 4 hours ago, MormonGator said: Amen. One could easily make the case that FDRs policies caused the great depression to get worse and last longer. I agree. That's why I did. I agree. That's why I did. I agree. That's why I did. 7 hours ago, Mores said: You'll find that a simple, temporary panic ( which was caused by a huge government miscalculation) was further exacerbated into a depression due to government. Then that depression morphed into the GREAT depression due to that "commie Democrat rascal" constantly implementing socialist policies. Edited July 4, 2019 by Mores Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdf135 Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 7 hours ago, Mores said: The fee market. I'm going to assume this was a Freudian slip. Regardless, although I have not read Thomas Sowell I have read OF his views and I have read free market hero Milton Freidman who advocated free-market pharmaceuticals. "Government be hanged! Let a few thousand people die and then the people will know for themselves whether that pill is safe or not" (paraphrased, of course). You and I are just going to have to agree to disagree on what the "facts" are. Yes, I am "liberal" if that means I don't believe free market philosophy is the solution to everything (see above). I personally would consider myself a "moderate" in that I believe good faith conversation is better than vilification and that compromise is not always compromise. Sometimes it means everybody working together to come up with the best solution to a problem. I will admit to one error though: FDR was elected four times, not three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MormonGator Posted July 4, 2019 Report Share Posted July 4, 2019 1 hour ago, jdf135 said: . "Government be hanged! Let a few thousand people die and then the people will know for themselves whether that pill is safe or not" (paraphrased, of course). Something to remember: In America, the FDA must approve this or that drug for treatment. When an FDA bureaucrat says "We've approved this drug for treatment. It'll save 50,000 lives" that could easily mean that 50,000 people died last year waiting for the drug to be approved. So government regulation has major, major problems too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anatess2 Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) On 7/4/2019 at 12:51 AM, jdf135 said: And, @anatess2 not all of them has family or church or even charitable organizations (a huge number of which are for profit despite claims) to help them and my heart aches for those terrified migrants clutching on to the slimmest of hopes that they will find something better for their children. Dude, I'm Filipino. Philippines. 3rd World Country. "Migrants clutching to the slimmest of hopes..."... really? So, it's okay to break laws because they're just "looking for something better for their children"? "I'm just drug dealing to give a better life to my children!" "I'm just robbing a back to give a better life to my children!" Yes, not all of the US have family or church or communities because YOU, AS A CULTURE, DECIDED YOU DON'T NEED ONE. Kick them out of the house by 18, divorce your spouses or just have children without spouses, leave your kids at daycare and summer camps because... there's a wage gap you have to equalize and women have to be engineers and CEOs instead of mothers. Don't talk to your siblings or your aging parents because... too busy... or they're weird... or, "they offend me"... No need for Church because... "they're mean to homosexuals", "what do you need God for anyway?", "religion has no place in schools and communities"... you don't know any of your neighbors let alone have a relationship with them because... "I'm too busy paying for my 5,000 sqft house" or "my neighbor's dog keeps on barking". You broke your own country and now you think those who make the good decisions and succeed should now be saddled with the broken things including other countries' broken things. Edited July 5, 2019 by anatess2 scottyg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted July 5, 2019 Report Share Posted July 5, 2019 On 7/3/2019 at 10:51 PM, jdf135 said: I think conspired is a bit strong. Fake moon landings and JFK killed by CIA too? Let's be honest and realistic. The most influential lobby affecting government programs is the PTA or in some states the PTSA. I have worked as a volunteer part time lobbyist for the PTSA in the state of Washington. No other lobby is better organized throughout the cities, counties, states and federal jurisdictions throughout this country. I know for a fact that the PTA lobbies across party lines and even influences judges and the election of judges. There is not a dime of public moneys spent for education that the PTA does not have a hand in. There is not a bill that goes before any legislative body in this country that in any way affects the educational establishment that every word is not vetted through the PTA organization. Outside of the profession of law no institution is represented more as elected officials than our educational establishment. To say they did not exercise their influence in the one case of student loans is absurd, silly and naive. Allow me to present a most interesting example. Harvard university possesses a sizable endowment that would allow them to continue as a higher educational institution without ever charging a dime from students or from the government - yet Harvard is one on the greatest (in amounts) of tax supported funds from the US government and they charge among the highests student fees. Close to half of their graduates are so ladened with student loans that they cannot qualify for a loan to purchase a house. In additions the moneys that Harvard receives is not taxed. What is Harvard doing with all that money? But it is not just Harvard - but I will give you a clue - the money is not going to the teachers. Quote Not sure this is an eternal truth. As has been alluded to above, no one solution fits every situation. I only hope the Lord looks at all MY complexities before making a final judgement. People are complex and their difficult situations are complex. Not every physically, intellectually and educationally handicapped person (or child of God, for that matter) needs the same type of help. And, @anatess2 not all of them has family or church or even charitable organizations (a huge number of which are for profit despite claims) to help them and my heart aches for those terrified migrants clutching on to the slimmest of hopes that they will find something better for their children. I would love to have a discussion about simple and complex - but to make this short (as an engineer in the field of industrial artificial intelligence) order and simplicity is a characteristic of intelligence. Chaos and confusion is a sign that intelligence is lacking. The biggest problem is that for some reason many believe the complex is a sign of intelligence - the idea that the universe is so complex that only a G-d could create it. This is a misrepresentation. Intelligent things only seem complex when we do not have enough information to understand it. The most complex computer program is a simple binary structure of either zero or one. I will put this in other terms - G-d is simple consistent and straightforward. It is Satan that complicates and make things seem complicated. For G-d the simple answer is love. For Satan even love is complicated. Quote I know my taxes are not used efficiently. That has always been the case since taxes were invented. However, frankly, I am happy to pay taxes to help my defective Canadian health care system; it's better than no system. I am so glad my special needs daughter gets community support through government-funded agencies because I just don't have the knowledge and resources to best to help her all the time. And, as deficient as the education system is, I am glad the government helps out so I don't have to come up with tuition to pay for elementary schooling for my kids (e.g. most of Africa). One of the poorest forms of logic used to justify stupid things is to say that something bad is better than something worse. This type of logic can be used to justify anything and I believe it is a tool of temptation utilized by Satan - never by G-d. If something is good and right and true - it will stand by itself as good and true. Heaven forbid we can even justify abuse of children with the logic that it is better than feeding them to crocrodiles. The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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