Failure to launch


Backroads
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I realize this can be a sensitive subject and is of course highly dependent on culture and circumstance. But I'm starting to get concerned about my sister and my parents. My sister is 30 years old and still lives at home. For cultural perspective, this is a white middle-class suburban American family. Everyone else was out of the house in their early twenties at the latest. For circumstances, my sister is employed full-time in a job that requires a college degree and earns decent money. Though she suffers from mild depression, I don't think she is unable to take care of herself (again, manages to hold down a full-time professional job). I don't think she pays rent, but she is otherwise quite helpful to the household. Apparently she doesn't save much at all, but enjoys traveling/partying/the fun life.

For years, I didn't care one way or the other. Didn't affect me none and the like. But for some reason, and perhaps it's the big 3-0, I can't help but wonder when this become odd. My siblings, while telling ourselves and each other it's none of our business, are starting to get concerned. Because she's not saving, not paying rent, etc., we don't think she is learning a lot of normal adult skills. My parents have also off-handedly mentioned a few times she is affecting their ability to do various things.

So, while I don't really want to be told that it's not my concern because I know that (though I probably deserve to be told that anyway), I find myself wondering how long it is appropriate to live at home, at the expense of not doing all that much adulting.

Edited by Backroads
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Living at home is becoming more common with Americans nowadays, with the cost of housing skyrocketing in a lot of places and (some people) not wanting to grow up.   My own sister just turned 29, has a 4 year degree, works a full-time job, and lives at home rent-free.  But she is actively saving money to buy a home and the situation does make financial sense (rent is insanely expense in her area).

So my thoughts on the matter: 

Living at home does not necessarily = not being an adult.  Many other cultures have multi-generational households, and all of the adults can indeed be adults.  However, in such situations the adult children are contirubtuxing to maintaining the household, budgeting, etc.   If a person is not working to better themselves (like becoming for financially secure, skills, education) and aren't taking care of themselves/household/finances then they are not being a functional adult.  Note: none of that specifically has to do with where a person is living, but how they are living.  

As to what you (the sibling) can do about it: absolutely nothing.  Which completely sucks (I'm actually going through that right now with a different sister who's failing to launch).  But it is what it is.  You parents could start charging rent (even putting into a savings account) or kick her out or have other requirements.  But a sibling can do nothing.  

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Guest Scott

I left home at 16, but did return for a few months at age 18 just prior to getting married.

Even if you had a great relationship with your parents, I don't think I'd want to live with them as an adult (unless you needed to take care of them).

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I understand that living at home is becoming more common, and that may not even be a bad thing.  But if what you say about her not saving money is true, that could be problematic.  If she is not investing in her retirement and savings that she won't be able to afford living independently when she retires, then someone should speak to her. Because if she doesn't have retirement savings, guess who is going to be expected to foot the bill for her life when she no longer can....yup, you!

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15 hours ago, Backroads said:

So, while I don't really want to be told that it's not my concern because I know that (though I probably deserve to be told that anyway), I find myself wondering how long it is appropriate to live at home, at the expense of not doing all that much adulting

Living at home is not neccessarily the problem per the examples mentioned above. I (and I'm sure you as well) am far more concerned with her lack of learning adult skills. God forbid, but what if something happens to your parents? I assume they are getting up there in years, and if she has never really learned to live on her own your sister could be in serious trouble if that happens.

However, at the end of the day, this is your parents problem, not yours. If they wanted too fix this problem, they could do so (charging rent, asking her to move out, etc.) Since they have not, they must be either content with the situation or unsure of how to fix it. I think you and your other siblings should elect someone to go talk to your parents about your concerns (privately no need to cause contention). Accept that things may not change, it is your parents house after all and they can do what they want with it, but at least you can discuss your concerns with them.

Edited by Midwest LDS
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Minor similar circumstance with our family.

My divorced older mother allows my sister and her family to live with her for basically free. This situation has been brought up to my mother before, several times. She chooses to allow it to happen. Ultimately she says she knows she is being taken advantage of, however, in her mind she receives the benefit of:  companionship, security of sorts, seeing grand kids, sharing of some chores and offering service to their family. 

I have to bite my tongue and let it be.
My concern now is:  My mother isn't saving for things like long-term care, so, eventually it will all fall back on me at some point to support her.

 

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2 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

I understand that living at home is becoming more common, and that may not even be a bad thing.  But if what you say about her not saving money is true, that could be problematic.  If she is not investing in her retirement and savings that she won't be able to afford living independently when she retires, then someone should speak to her. Because if she doesn't have retirement savings, guess who is going to be expected to foot the bill for her life when she no longer can....yup, you!

This is rather our concern, that we will have to care for her if she never picks up these skills.

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28 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

Ultimately she says she knows she is being taken advantage of, however, in her mind she receives the benefit of:  companionship, security of sorts, seeing grand kids, sharing of some chores and offering service to their family. 

Before my grandma downsized into one of those trendy retirement communities all the old folks are into these days, her basement was a revolving door of grandkids and their families. We were there for the better part of a year ourselves. Yes, it was free. Yes, my grandma received companionship and chores and in our case home cooking. So perhaps it was bad on our end. But the arrangements we were always... Temporary. These were college students, or grandkids between things.

While I can respect and appreciate a truly multigenerational home, I worry about ones where the balance is off.

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37 minutes ago, Backroads said:

While I can respect and appreciate a truly multigenerational home, I worry about ones where the balance is off.

I worry about it too. While my mother still has her mental capacities and freedom to soundly make her own choices, then I agree with @Jane_Doe = not much a sibling/son can do about it. They, as adults, are making the choice themselves to live together. Hurting, helping, etc. they are choosing it. If your parents wanted your sister out, then she would be out. They obviously don't want her out 'enough' because their actions suggest otherwise. Same applies with my own mother.
 

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Families are one of the few places were we can truly practice the Law of Consecration .  Therefore getting help from and giving help to (within the means available) are totally acceptable and understandable.  Where the Law of Consecration fails in practice is when there are "idlers" (See various scriptural references).  In spite of the fact that your sister has a job from your description she sounds like an "idler".  More directly she sounds like the Prodigal Son, who having received an inheritance is wasting it on "riotous living"   

You are concerned because you know what happens next and you are naturally worried about the harm that will happen then.

However your options for action are greatly limited.  You can talk to them, share your concerns with them, but only your parents and your sister can take action to make changes.

 

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15 hours ago, Backroads said:

I realize this can be a sensitive subject and is of course highly dependent on culture and circumstance. But I'm starting to get concerned about my sister and my parents. My sister is 30 years old and still lives at home. For cultural perspective, this is a white middle-class suburban American family. Everyone else was out of the house in their early twenties at the latest. For circumstances, my sister is employed full-time in a job that requires a college degree and earns decent money. Though she suffers from mild depression, I don't think she is unable to take care of herself (again, manages to hold down a full-time professional job). I don't think she pays rent, but she is otherwise quite helpful to the household. Apparently she doesn't save much at all, but enjoys traveling/partying/the fun life.

For years, I didn't care one way or the other. Didn't affect me none and the like. But for some reason, and perhaps it's the big 3-0, I can't help but wonder when this become odd. My siblings, while telling ourselves and each other it's none of our business, are starting to get concerned. Because she's not saving, not paying rent, etc., we don't think she is learning a lot of normal adult skills. My parents have also off-handedly mentioned a few times she is affecting their ability to do various things.

So, while I don't really want to be told that it's not my concern because I know that (though I probably deserve to be told that anyway), I find myself wondering how long it is appropriate to live at home, at the expense of not doing all that much adulting.

This is one of those few things where you can apply some wisdom from Asian culture to infuse into your suburban American family.

Asian culture 101:

At least one kid living with his parents until the day they die is best.  There's no "age limit" as to when you have to move out.  This way your society won't have the issue of "what to do with the elderly when they get too old to fend for themselves" and you won't have elderly having to avail of government social programs.

Also, as a sibling - this is, of course, your business.  If you want a family clan that helps each other instead of cutting off chords from siblings to only be family during Thanksgiving, then you need to be involved as a family.  This is how you build a society with the least dependence on government-provided social welfare programs.

That said... the family dynamics needs to change within the household.  As a kid, you hold the responsibility of a kid in the household dynamics - you become in charge of smaller things - like setting the table, making your bed, getting an education to be ready to take on more responsibility.  The older you get, the more responsibility you take such that when you become an adult, you take adult responsibility.  This means that your parents also start to take on less and less responsibility and change into more of a wise adviser.  So the household expenses shifts from the parents down to the adult kids and the adult kids become the primary homeowner while the parents start doing what teen-agers without much household responsibilities do - go out and not come home for days.  Basically, the household dynamics change from the kid living with their parents to their parents living with their kid without any change in location.  And to the extreme - the household dynamics change from the parents changing the kid's diapers to the kid changing their parent's diapers.

This is easy in Asian households because everybody already knows this is what's going to happen (and how it's supposed to happen) so the kids know they need to take on more responsibility while the parents know they need to give the kid more responsibility such that eventually, the parents stop thinking of it as "my house" and start thinking of it as "my kid's house".

So how do you apply this set-up to your own American household?  I say... first, as a sibling, stop thinking of it as "their business" and start thinking of it as "family business".  Then second, when your parents come to you talking about how they feel about your sister, advice your parents to give your sister more responsibility.  Similarly, when your sister brings up the subject, advice your sister to take on more responsibility.  Or, if you don't want to wait for the topic to come up, you can bring the topic up yourself with very specific things like... "So, who is paying the mortgage on this house?  I think, mom and dad, you should stop paying the mortgage and have my sister pay it."

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I'm aware of a tragic situation where grandma was the only breadwinner, daughter needed her medical MJ too much to have a job, and grandkid is a little kid.  Grandma died.  Daughter just keeps making one bad decision after another.  They're losing their apartment.  Daughter went "yippee" with the life insurance and bought as much truck as she could.  She and grandkid will be living in it soon, assuming the state doesn't take the grandkid.

In some situations, it's worth some hard feelings and fights and stuff to get this stuff resolved before bad things happen.

Edited by NeuroTypical
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58 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Also, as a sibling - this is, of course, your business.  If you want a family clan that helps each other instead of cutting off chords from siblings to only be family during Thanksgiving, then you need to be involved as a family.  This is how you build a society with the least dependence on government-provided social welfare programs.

I wish my American family (myself included) could figure out how to make this work. In principle, it sounds great. In practice, it seems to result in lots of hurt feelings and resentment.

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46 minutes ago, Vort said:

I wish my American family (myself included) could figure out how to make this work. In principle, it sounds great. In practice, it seems to result in lots of hurt feelings and resentment.

Hurt feelings and resentment in an Asian household is a given because we're all human.  It's just the way it is.  We already know it, expect it, so it doesn't change anything.  We can fight like world war 3 over something but we're still family.  My mother insults my religion, even infront of my children, and my husband's American ways... she's still my mother.  I know where she's coming from because - I know my mother.  I deal with it, teach my children and husband how to deal with it... and if it happens again (as I can't control my mother) then everybody already knows, that's just the way she is so we ignore her.  My brother stopped talking to my dad when he was only 16 years old when my dad burned all his soccer stuff.  But, he's still his dad, so he still does what all kids do, go to family dinners, spend the time and money to have my parents live at his house a few months a year to maintain that relationship with his wife and kids over the distance, lend support to my parents (especially when my dad got cancer),  he just talks to my mother and if there's anything he needs to tell my dad, he tells my mom to tell dad... they don't talk about soccer.    We had a family meeting about it a few times - how to get them talking again.  It was a disaster.  So, it's just another thing in the family - My brother doesn't talk to my dad - it is what it is.  But he's still dad and my brother is still his son and they still love each other.  Nothing much else changes.  We all have our own weaknesses that we deal with.  They have to put up with my temper too...

There's this American comedian - Jokoy - his entire schtik is about his Filipino mother.  Unfortunately, I can't find a video of his without the bad language... but Jokoy is the perfect example of what I'm talking about.  He talks about all the abuses he got from his Filipino mother (e.g. his "Filipino mothers are the killer of dreams" schtick where he talks about when he told his mother he wanted to be a comedian and his mother told him "who told you you're funny?" because, Filipino mothers force their kids to be doctors or nurses - like all the other Filipino nurses in the audience who had other dreams but are nurses...).  But even as he's making fun of his mother, you can just tell listening to him talk that he loves his mother very much. 

Edited by anatess2
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Guest Mores

In the movie The Prince and Me, the leading lady rides to the castle with the prince.  When they get close enough to the castle to take in its majesty, the girl proclaims

Quote

OH NO!  You didn't tell me you lived with your parents.

 

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