Dad shoots his daughters boyfriend for smoking weed

[Guest MormonGator]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/07/23/dad-shot-daughters-boyfriend-smoking-weed-party-police-say/1806212001/?fbclid=IwAR0o0EEpYw4cCNOfhD767S7QUWE34Z6h2ulg4zN9xv7PA_H-TR-hZlkcC0A

Stories like this always bother me. Vigilante justice is a terrible idea. I hope the father of the daughter spends the rest of his life in jail. His rights as a parent don't include murdering other children. 

[Midwest LDS]

26 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/07/23/dad-shot-daughters-boyfriend-smoking-weed-party-police-say/1806212001/?fbclid=IwAR0o0EEpYw4cCNOfhD767S7QUWE34Z6h2ulg4zN9xv7PA_H-TR-hZlkcC0A

Stories like this always bother me. Vigilante justice is a terrible idea. I hope the father of the daughter spends the rest of his life in jail. His rights as a parent don't include murdering other children. 

This story was crazy, but it's examples like this that demonstrate why the Lord has told us that vengeance is his and we are required to forgive all men. We (generic) always go overboard when we try to take the law into our own hands.

[Guest MormonGator]

2 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

This story was crazy, but it's examples like this that demonstrate why the Lord has told us that vengeance is his and we are required to forgive all men. We (generic) always go overboard when we try to take the law into our own hands.

That, and selling pot doesn't warrant the death penalty. Even if it's to your daughter/son. 

[Midwest LDS]

4 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

That, and selling pot doesn't warrant the death penalty. Even if it's to your daughter/son. 

Oh yeah of course. That goes without saying unless you're a nutjob like this guy.

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, Midwest LDS said:

Oh yeah of course. That goes without saying unless you're a nutjob like this guy.

He deserves to get 50 years in the slammer. Even if you (generic) don't care about the 17 year old he killed, this guy is clearly a menace to society. He's "the type" who would open fire on someone who cut him off on the highway. 

[unixknight]

31 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

That, and selling pot doesn't warrant the death penalty. Even if it's to your daughter/son. 

Agreed.

Meth, on the other hand...  I think a case can be made.

(I kid... sort of.)

 

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, unixknight said:

Agreed.

Meth, on the other hand...  I think a case can be made.

(I kid... sort of.)

 

Thank God I just stick to good old fashioned Mescaline. 

( @Midwest LDS I might be late this month with your shipment.) 

Edited July 23, 2019 by MormonGator

[Just_A_Guy]

#potheadlivesmatter #waronpotheads #yesallpotheads

[anatess2]

Welcome to the Philippines.  You mess with someone's daughter, you get shot by her father.  If he misses, you'll get the bullet from her brothers ,they miss, there's still the uncle... they all miss, grandpa's musket might just come out from the display case.  Of course, that's only if the family knows they can take on your entire family.

In any case, you go to the Philippines, don't mess with anyone's daughter.

[Guest MormonGator]

14 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

#potheadlivesmatter #waronpotheads #yesallpotheads

As an attorney, don't you find it disturbing when people ignore the rule of law and take matters into their own hands?

I'd love to be there when this animal demands a trial by jury. If I was the prosecutor I'd ask "Hey, what about that "pothead" you killed? Did he get a a trial by jury?No? And yet right now you demand one. Oh." After all, he clearly doesn't believe in law and order. So maybe we can get the mother of the "pothead" to kill him. That''s justice. 

This guy is human garbage, and even human garbage deserves a trial by jury. Unlike the boy he killed he'll get one. 

Edited July 24, 2019 by MormonGator

[Just_A_Guy]

56 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

As an attorney, don't you find it disturbing when people ignore the rule of law and take matters into their own hands?

I'd love to be there when this animal demands a trial by jury. If I was the prosecutor I'd ask "Hey, what about that "pothead" you killed? Did he get a a trial by jury?No? And yet right now you demand one. Oh." After all, he clearly doesn't believe in law and order. So maybe we can get the mother of the "pothead" to kill him. That''s justice. 

This guy is human garbage, and even human garbage deserves a trial by jury. Unlike the boy he killed he'll get one. 

Naturally.  The kid’s death is clearly a tragedy (even if my black-hearted soul also makes inappropriate jokes at the situation).

But I also recognize that there’s a lot I don’t know about the situation, and that sober people generally act “rationally” within the construct of reality in which they operate; and I know absolutely nothing about Dad’s reality.  Was boyfriend inducing daughter to use?  Trading pot for sex?  Pimping her out to get pot for himself?  What was the age difference between the two?  What did boyfriend say to Dad during their encounter—was it a chance meeting, or something planned?  What steps had Dad already taken to alert the cops to the kid’s illegal drug use and unwelcome contact with his family; and to what extent did the police act or fail to act on the festering situation?  At this point, I don’t know.  

The law will give this guy what he deserves, regardless of my moral outrage or lack thereof.  I can join society in clucking about the sad and unnecessary waste of a young and promising life, without making moral judgments about a guy I don’t know based on facts I don’t have.  (I don’t always succeed at it, but I know I can do it!)

Edited July 24, 2019 by Just_A_Guy

[Just_A_Guy]

17 hours ago, unixknight said:

Agreed.

Meth, on the other hand...  I think a case can be made.

(I kid... sort of.)

 

NBC says it wasn’t just weed; it was cocaine, too.  Does that change anything?

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Naturally.  The kid’s death is clearly a tragedy (even if my black-hearted soul also makes inappropriate jokes at the situation).

But I also recognize that there’s a lot I don’t know about the situation, and that sober people generally act “rationally” within the construct of reality in which they operate; and I know absolutely nothing about Dad’s reality.  Was boyfriend inducing daughter to use?  Trading pot for sex?  Pimping her out to get pot for himself?  What was the age difference between the two?  What did boyfriend say to Dad during their encounter—was it a chance meeting, or something planned?  What steps had Dad already taken to alert the cops to the kid’s illegal drug use and unwelcome contact with his family; and to what extent did the police act or fail to act on the festering situation?  At this point, I don’t know.  

The law will give this guy what he deserves, regardless of my moral outrage or lack thereof.  I can join society in clucking about the sad and unnecessary waste of a young and promising life, without making moral judgments about a guy I don’t know based on facts I don’t have.  (I don’t always succeed at it, but I know I can do it!)

I go a step further. I think we should all carry guns and settle our disagreements in bloody shoot outs.  

[Just_A_Guy]

10 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I go a step further. I think we should all carry guns and settle our disagreements in bloody shoot outs.  

*Shrug* We can (and do) agree that armed confrontation shouldn’t be the immediate go-to option.  But if (hypothetically) some kid got my daughter hooked on coke and was pimping her out, and the cops refused to do anything about it—at some point, that may be my only option.  

We know that USA Today’s article omitted the role of cocaine in the story.  Why do you think that was, and what else is USA Today not telling us?

[Guest MormonGator]

10 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

But if (hypothetically) some kid got my daughter hooked on coke and was pimping her out, and the cops refused to do anything about it—at some point, that may be my only option.  

You are the lawyer, so please tell me where in the law it says you can kill drug dealers yourself if they get your child addicted.  

And I get it, as a parent you want to protect your children, especially your daughter. That's an admirable feeling. Let's say though that your daughter, who at this point is addicted to drugs, is lying to you, or tells you to kill the wrong person. Than, you've got an innocent persons blood on your hands. 

Now if you choose to break the law and pretend you are Charles Bronson in Death Wish 18, that's your choice. And I'm sure the police will just let you go if you explain what you were doing. Right @mirkwood?

Edited July 24, 2019 by MormonGator

[Just_A_Guy]

13 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

You are the lawyer, so please tell me where in the law it says you can kill drug dealers yourself if they get your child addicted.  

Now if you choose to break the law and pretend you are Charles Bronson in Death Wish 18, that's your choice. And I'm sure the police will just let you go if you explain what you were doing. Right @mirkwood?

I’m not saying it’s legal.  And I agree that the law is bound to go after and punish all who step outside its protections.  

I’m just saying I’m not going to become part of USA Today’s rent-a-mob to a) crucify a dad who shot the guy who was apparently pushing coke on his daughter, or b) make the pusher a martyr to the “free pot for everyone!” cause.  The system will deal with Dad more justly than I ever could—and hopefully, in due course, shed some light on exactly what this kid was into, for good or for ill.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’m not saying it’s legal.  And I agree that the law is bound to go after and punish all who step outside its protections.  

I’m just saying I’m not going to become part of USA Today’s rent-a-mob to crucify a dad who shot the guy who was apparently pushing coke on his daughter.  The system will deal with him more justly than I ever could.

I understand. Ironically the "USA Today rent-a-mob" is actually in favor of the Dad. Overwhelmingly. Look at the Facebook comments on their page. And obviously it's a passionate issue for me. Call it my "Mockingbird" sense of justice but I'm always against vigilantes. 

Nothing but love and respect @Just_A_Guy! 

Edited July 24, 2019 by MormonGator

[Vort]

4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

You are the lawyer, so please tell me where in the law it says you can kill drug dealers yourself if they get your child addicted.

I think the point is that killing someone who got your daughter hooked on cocaine is much different from killing someone who smoked pot with your daughter. Both are murder, but most rational people (myself included) would have far more sympathy for the former than the latter. I woul apply the description "human garbage" to the drug dealer and pusher before I would apply it to the father who killed him.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

I think the point is that killing someone who got your daughter hooked on cocaine is much different from killing someone who smoked pot with your daughter. Both are murder, but most rational people (myself included) would have far more sympathy for the former than the latter. I woul apply the description "human garbage" to the drug dealer and pusher before I would apply it to the father who killed him.

I have sympathy for the father, no one wants to see their daughter get hooked on drugs. 

I have no sympathy for someone who decides to play judge, jury and executioner. Even if you had iron clad proof that your daughter was doing cocaine with dealers, no, you can not go around shooting people. Sorry. 

[Vort]

2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I have sympathy for the father, no one wants to see their daughter get hooked on drugs. 

I have no sympathy for someone who decides to play judge, jury and executioner. Even if you had iron clad proof that your daughter was doing cocaine with dealers, no, you can not go around shooting people. Sorry. 

I doubt any of us disagree. But if the cocaine story is true, the murder becomes a whole lot more explainable, and the murderer frankly more sympathetic.

[Guest Mores]

9 hours ago, Vort said:

I doubt any of us disagree.

While it certainly shouldn't be the first choice, there would be circumstances where one could plan such a thing and have it be perfectly legal.  It's just sad that this father didn't think of it (if it is indeed as he said -- the article seemed to cast doubt on his claims).

If the guy was pushing it on her, and you have gone to the police multiple times, and they said there was nothing they could do, there would be a point where you'd have no other choice but to take the matter into your own hands.  But it needs to be legally justified.

...

I was going to outline a step-by-step plan to show just how one might go about it and have it be perfectly legal.  But I figured that may not be appropriate for a Church oriented forum.

I'm just a violent, conniving, and highly protective father.  I guess I'd fit in with Anatess's family.

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, Mores said:

 

I was going to outline a step-by-step plan to show just how one might go about it and have it be perfectly legal.  But I figured that may not be appropriate for a Church oriented forum.

I wish we could have that conversation, because I don’t see a way it could be “legal” (reducing from Murder 1 to Manslaughter, maybe . . .) and I’d be interested to see what others come up with.  

[Guest MormonGator]

9 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I wish we could have that conversation, because I don’t see a way it could be “legal” (reducing from Murder 1 to Manslaughter, maybe . . .) and I’d be interested to see what others come up with.  

Of course it's legal. Didn't you ever read a Time to Kill? After all, reading John Grisham is the same as studying for the bar exam. DUH! 

[Guest Mores]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I wish we could have that conversation, because I don’t see a way it could be “legal” (reducing from Murder 1 to Manslaughter, maybe . . .) and I’d be interested to see what others come up with.  

Intent is a hard thing to prove.  Self-defense vs. assault?  In some instances, even the one committing the violent act can have difficulty knowing what their intent was.  Offensive or defensive?  Who knows?

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Of course it's legal. Didn't you ever read a Time to Kill? After all, reading John Grisham is the same as studying for the bar exam. DUH! 

I'd never read it nor seen the movie.  But (just read the movie summary) that father made the same mistake that this father in PA (???) did.  You've just got to work the law to your advantage.

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I wish we could have that conversation, because I don’t see a way it could be “legal” (reducing from Murder 1 to Manslaughter, maybe . . .) and I’d be interested to see what others come up with.  

This kind of thing is not about finding a way for it to be legal.  This kind of thing would be about justifying capital punishment to be worth it.