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Trump vs Elijah Cummings – Is Baltimore worse than the border?

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Is there a connection between inner city squalor and problems with illegal activity at the border.  Why are politicians more focused on the border activities than on problems in their own respective congressional districts?   I listened to Rush Limbaugh and I believe he has missed the forest for the trees.  I do not believe for one second that illegals and the border is about growing more Democratic party voters.

We can learn from history – Specifically the opiate wars of China.  There is a connection with inner city poverty and the border - it is all about drugs.  No more and no less.  It is not about voters – Rush is wrong – it is about money and power that comes with the drug trade.  It is about what politicians (and media celebrities) have been bought and sold by and to the drug cartels.

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

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16 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I do not believe for one second that illegals and the border is about growing more Democratic party voters.

So do you then believe that the Democrats are pushing for open borders because they're on the take and getting kickbacks from the drug lords? That's a leap of cynicism I'm not yet prepared to take. I find it much more believable that they're pushing for the destruction of the US because they want short-term money and power, not because they're on the take for drug money.

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It's two idiots in a Twitter fight, and one step above Jerry Springer. But, that's Trump. It's just who he is. You can't expect him to rise above petty spats, he just doesn't have it in him. A gentlemen would just ignore it and let someone else lower themselves to that level, but Trump, um, well let's just say he has some stuff to work on. 

That said, Baltimore is very dangerous city. I've been there several times and even the residents think it's a giant ghetto. 

Edited by MormonGator

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Wouldn't the democrats (some at least) attempt to legalize marijuana negate that theory?  I would venture to guess that the Mexican drug lords aren't exactly happy with the legalization or attempted legalization of marijuana. 

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43 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Oh wow.  I would think you'd have better sense than to parrot leftist talking points.

Here's a report from 2014.  Before Trump Derangement Syndrome became a thing and when Presidents left and right were spouting putting barriers on the border so much so that Congress passed a law to create a border barrier.

https://drugabuse.com/featured/drug-trafficking-across-borders/

And just because drugs also enter the country by air and sea doesn't mean stopping it on land becomes worthless.  Especially since drugs is not the ONLY thing a border barrier can stop.

Edited by anatess2

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7 minutes ago, Vort said:

Why is it "racist" to say that Baltimore is a disgusting, rat-infested swamp? From what I can tell, that's a true description.

Because if they did not... the left/democratic power block.. would have to deal with they fact that Trump has called them on their utter incompetence.  They are the one in powers in the larger urban cities and they have been for decades.  The problems of those areas (Crime, drugs, poverty etc.) are all on them.  Trump is pointing out that their emperor has not being wearing any clothes for a long time.  Rather then deal with that they have to distract by playing the race card.

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Trump is highlighting white resentment against political correctness. He's intentionally kicking over race taboos so that his base will say, "I could see myself saying that--even believing it--and I'm sick of being told I'm guilty of racist thought crimes." IMHO he does this stuff on purpose, believing it will help his election prospects. If he's petty, that's secondary.

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

So do you then believe that the Democrats are pushing for open borders because they're on the take and getting kickbacks from the drug lords? That's a leap of cynicism I'm not yet prepared to take. I find it much more believable that they're pushing for the destruction of the US because they want short-term money and power, not because they're on the take for drug money.

As I said - there is a historical president.  There was an international opiate drug cartel organized to import drugs into China.  Despite the sicking problems created in inner cities (populated areas) there were more than enough government officials involved in helping the cartel.  There were governors, judges, law enforcement bureaucrats and other bureaucrats (not just in China but in positions of power both in the USA and Europe) that became so corrupted it caused the fall of the Quing Dynasty and ended emperitic rule forever in China.  It took the brutal assault of Communists to end the drug imports.  Could politicians in the USA be involved in such treachery?  Here is a thought.  It is a historical fact and undisputed that the Delano family was involved in the highests levels of the opium cartel - Something that FDR's grandfather openly bragged about.  There are historical photos of DFR (prior to his political career) attending cartel activities (parties) in China prior to the final opiate battle that China lost and was forced to give up Hong Kong to the British and Taiwan to the Japanese (Taiwan was taken from Japan following WWII).

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, Traveler said:

Is there a connection between inner city squalor and problems with illegal activity at the border.  Why are politicians more focused on the border activities than on problems in their own respective congressional districts?   I listened to Rush Limbaugh and I believe he has missed the forest for the trees.  I do not believe for one second that illegals and the border is about growing more Democratic party voters.

We can learn from history – Specifically the opiate wars of China.  There is a connection with inner city poverty and the border - it is all about drugs.  No more and no less.  It is not about voters – Rush is wrong – it is about money and power that comes with the drug trade.  It is about what politicians (and media celebrities) have been bought and sold by and to the drug cartels.

 

The Traveler

I can't remember anymore if it was Podesta's emails or the El Chapo findings or some other court case that unearthed the fact that politicians - Mexican and US - are getting money from drug cartels.  But, in addition, Podesta emails, the Epstein case, I'm getting really sloppy... shows they're also getting children from child traffickers.  But, that doesn't negate the fact that the DNC registers undocumented immigrants and DACA adults to vote.

Edited by anatess2

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45 minutes ago, Vort said:

Why is it "racist" to say that Baltimore is a disgusting, rat-infested swamp? From what I can tell, that's a true description.

Imagine you're a Baltimore resident and the president, your president, says those things about your home. I've seen a lot of "Yeah, it's a dump, but it's our dump". It's like when Charles Barkely talks smack about San Antonio. There's truth in the things he says. But no one wants to see an outsider trash their city on a national stage.

It's not that what Trump said is untrue (it's not), it's the callous way in which he's talking about a city populated with American citizens, many of them good people who haven't been able to climb their way out of poverty. Yes, Dem politicians are complicit. Yes, Dem politicians in Maryland have a shady history. But those are still American citizens living in that city. He's their president too. It's funny how, even when he's right, he chooses the worst possible way to say something. So now we have even more rhetorical ammo for the white supremacists who keep feeling more validated every day. 

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Just now, Godless said:

Imagine you're a Baltimore resident and the president, your president, says those things about your home. I've seen a lot of "Yeah, it's a dump, but it's our dump". It's like when Charles Barkely talks smack about San Antonio. There's truth in the things he says. But no one wants to see an outsider trash their city on a national stage.

It's not that what Trump said is untrue (it's not), it's the callous way in which he's talking about a city populated with American citizens, many of them good people who haven't been able to climb their way out of poverty. Yes, Dem politicians are complicit. Yes, Dem politicians in Maryland have a shady history. But those are still American citizens living in that city. He's their president too. It's funny how, even when he's right, he chooses the worst possible way to say something. So now we have even more rhetorical ammo for the white supremacists who keep feeling more validated every day. 

Even if I grant your argument above, how is it racist to say?

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22 minutes ago, Vort said:

Even if I grant your argument above, how is it racist to say?

"No human being would want to live there."

Human beings do live there, Mr. President, and they are US citizens. And yes, many of them are living in terrible conditions. Maybe we should talk to some of the property owners in those neighborhoods. Oh, wait. Nevermind. Let's just blame it on the US congressman whose job it is to represent his constituents on a federal level, because that's basically the same as getting involved in local politics*, right? And let's make some vague and unsubstantiated claims about corruption and theft of federal funds while we're at it, because Fox & Friends would NEVER lie to their viewers about something like that. 

Funny how stuff like this doesn't seem to happen to white politicians, even white Democrats, like the ones who represent Baltimore's other two districts. And even when he does go after white politicians, there's a noticeable absence of the unbridled vitriol that he uses against women and minorities. THAT'S the real issue here. Trump is following his same old pattern of blasting people of color in politics, and in this case dehumanizing American citizens in the process. Again, not many people are denying the reality that there are serious problems in Baltimore that need to be addressed. But to blame it on a black politician who is pretty far removed from direct responsibility for the matter is, well, fishy. Some might say racist. 

 

* Yes, US Representatives and Senators should take an active interest in the  local political affairs of their home districts/states. But that is not their primary job. Their job is to represent their constituents on a federal level on matters that affect the entire country. In Cummings case, that includes a position on the House Oversight Committee. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with Trump's sudden interest in the condition of Maryland's 7th Congressional district.

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25 minutes ago, Godless said:

"No human being would want to live there."

Human beings do live there, Mr. President, and they are US citizens. And yes, many of them are living in terrible conditions. Maybe we should talk to some of the property owners in those neighborhoods. Oh, wait. Nevermind. Let's just blame it on the US congressman whose job it is to represent his constituents on a federal level, because that's basically the same as getting involved in local politics*, right? And let's make some vague and unsubstantiated claims about corruption and theft of federal funds while we're at it, because Fox & Friends would NEVER lie to their viewers about something like that. 

Funny how stuff like this doesn't seem to happen to white politicians, even white Democrats, like the ones who represent Baltimore's other two districts. And even when he does go after white politicians, there's a noticeable absence of the unbridled vitriol that he uses against women and minorities. THAT'S the real issue here. Trump is following his same old pattern of blasting people of color in politics, and in this case dehumanizing American citizens in the process. Again, not many people are denying the reality that there are serious problems in Baltimore that need to be addressed. But to blame it on a black politician who is pretty far removed from direct responsibility for the matter is, well, fishy. Some might say racist. 

 

* Yes, US Representatives and Senators should take an active interest in the  local political affairs of their home districts/states. But that is not their primary job. Their job is to represent their constituents on a federal level on matters that affect the entire country. In Cummings case, that includes a position on the House Oversight Committee. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with Trump's sudden interest in the condition of Maryland's 7th Congressional district.

I have a totally different view of this. 

If Beto O'Rourke or Barack Obama said "You know what? Rural Alabama is poor, addicted to meth, filled with trailer parks-white trash! Why isn't Robert Aderholt doing something?!!" The left would say "Hey man, he's just keeping it real. Besides, he's right! Why isn't Robert Anderholt doing anything?" It's all partisan and we're only outraged if someone we hate says it. If someone we love says basically the same thing, we embrace it as the truth. And until we take off our partisan binders, the cycle of blaming the other side and playing the victim and always seeing the other side as evil will never end. 

And oh yeah, rural Alabama is a mess. Just like urban Baltimore. What's really cool? Cities keep electing democrats and they remain a mess. Rural parts keep electing republicans and they remain a mess. Who suffers most? Not us arguing on the internet and calling people we disagree with racist. Those who actually live there suffer the most. 

Edited by MormonGator

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“Bitter clingers”, anyone?

Yes, its unbecoming when the president of all of us, sets faction against faction.  Given our history, it’s doubly scary when that factionist rhetoric takes a sectionalist/regionalist flavor.  

But let’s not pretend this is new.  Conservatives have had a hundred years of being told we need to “come together as a country” under leftists but “resist” whenever the right game into power.  Progressives enacted a lot of their agenda by setting Americans against each other and undermining the social/political/cultural/religious/historical norms that used to hold us together as a people; and if conservatives under Trump now up the ante instead of indefinitely paying lip service to old norms that progressives now view as shackles to be used to drag us wholesale into collectivism—well, I still don’t think that leads anywhere good and I think Trump’s tactics inadvisable; but I’m not going to pretend that the ever-increasing division is exclusively or even primarily Trump’s fault.  Trump is Tybalt to Obama’s Iago.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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12 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I have a totally different view of this. 

If Beto O'Rourke or Barack Obama said "You know what? Rural Alabama is poor, addicted to meth, filled with trailer parks-white trash! Why isn't Robert Aderholt doing something?!!" The left would say "Hey man, he's just keeping it real. Besides, he's right! Why isn't Robert Anderholt doing anything?" It's all partisan and we're only outraged if someone we hate says it. If someone we love says basically the same thing, we embrace it as the truth. And until we take off our partisan binders, the cycle of blaming the other side and playing the victim and always seeing the other side as evil will never end. 

I love Beto because he goes out of his way to reach out to voters in "Trump country". He lost the 2018 Senate race, but he flipped a few red counties and closed the gap in others. I really wish he'd drop out of the Presidential race and go after John Cornyn's Senate seat instead. I'd love to see him back in Congress.

You're right though, too many politicians on both sides spend too much time disparaging their fellow citizens. However, I can't recall a time when a sitting president has gone to such lengths to marginalize entire segments of our society the way Trump does. The brazen deliberateness of it is very unsettling.

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11 minutes ago, Godless said:

You're right though, 

I am right, and and I'm not naive. Nothing is going to change. 

And in fairness, if a republican came around who could flip blue districts, you'd probably say something different about him than you do about Robert Francis. After all, Trump flipped Wisconsin, I think. 

Edited by MormonGator

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11 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I am right, and and I'm not naive. Nothing is going to change. 

And in fairness, if a republican came around who could flip blue districts, you'd probably say something different about him than you do about Robert Francis. 

I imagine my enthusiasm would be dulled, but I admire any politician who can bridge that gap. For the record, there's a representative from Texas named Will Hurd whom I actually admire a great deal. And while he's fallen into the partisan bickering trap a few times, I think Dan Crenshaw shows a lot of promise as well. John McCain almost had my wife's vote in '08, but Palin was a deal-breaker. That's the funny thing about such a toxic political environment, it makes the good apples stand out a bit more.

Edited by Godless

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7 minutes ago, Godless said:

I imagine my enthusiasm would be dulled, but I admire any politician who can bridge that gap. For the record, there's a representative from Texas named Will Hurd whom I actually admire a great deal. And while he's fallen into the partisan bickering trap a few times, I think Dan Crenshaw shows a lot of promise as well. John McCain almost had my wife's vote in '08, but Palin was a deal-breaker. That's the funny thing about such a toxic political environment, it makes the good apples stand out a bit more.

Right, and I'm not picking on you, or democrats, of course. The republicans are just as guilty, 100%. 

The libertarians (my political home) are also messed up. We had a man dancing around in his underpants on stage during our national convention a few years ago. Way to tell mainstream America that we are trying to be taken seriously, huh guys? 

Edited by MormonGator

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53 minutes ago, Godless said:

"No human being would want to live there."

Human beings do live there, Mr. President, and they are US citizens. And yes, many of them are living in terrible conditions.

So, you're saying those people WANT to live there?  

 

53 minutes ago, Godless said:

Maybe we should talk to some of the property owners in those neighborhoods. Oh, wait. Nevermind. Let's just blame it on the US congressman whose job it is to represent his constituents on a federal level, because that's basically the same as getting involved in local politics*, right? And let's make some vague and unsubstantiated claims about corruption and theft of federal funds while we're at it, because Fox & Friends would NEVER lie to their viewers about something like that. 

Funny how stuff like this doesn't seem to happen to white politicians, even white Democrats, like the ones who represent Baltimore's other two districts. And even when he does go after white politicians, there's a noticeable absence of the unbridled vitriol that he uses against women and minorities. THAT'S the real issue here. Trump is following his same old pattern of blasting people of color in politics, and in this case dehumanizing American citizens in the process. Again, not many people are denying the reality that there are serious problems in Baltimore that need to be addressed. But to blame it on a black politician who is pretty far removed from direct responsibility for the matter is, well, fishy. Some might say racist. 

 

* Yes, US Representatives and Senators should take an active interest in the  local political affairs of their home districts/states. But that is not their primary job. Their job is to represent their constituents on a federal level on matters that affect the entire country. In Cummings case, that includes a position on the House Oversight Committee. But I'm sure that has nothing to do with Trump's sudden interest in the condition of Maryland's 7th Congressional district.

All of this commentary shows that you, once again, just swallowed your favorite media's narrative without even bothering to find out what the context of the Cummings vs. Trump hoopla is all about.

So, let me go and do the job of your favorite MSM and give you the genesis of the exchange.  First of all, Cummings did THIS to a border patrol agent - basically yellingly accused border patrol of dehumanizing migrants in detention centers.  Now, Trump did not tell Cummings to lambast border patrol agents and Trump DEFINITELY did not egg Cummings to lambast agents so Trump can make hay out of such attacks on border patrol agents because of Cummings black skin!   Now, why would Trump then defend border patrol by hoisting Baltimore's problems to anybody else besides Cummings???

And to say... he doesn't go after white male politicians with the same vitriol... really?  Where have you been?  Trump vs. Low Energy Jeb.  Trump vs. Failed Romney.  Trump vs. Dopey Rove.  Trump vs. Loser McCain.  Trump vs. Boy Scout Ryan.  Trump vs Crazy Bernie.  Trump vs. Crying Schumer.  Trump vs. Pencil Neck Schiff.  Trump vs. Lying Comey.  Do you want me to go on?

 

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

“Bitter clingers”, anyone?

Yes, its unbecoming when the president of all of us, sets faction against faction.  Given our history, it’s doubly scary when that factionist rhetoric takes a sectionalist/regionalist flavor.  

But let’s not pretend this is new.  Conservatives have had a hundred years of being told we need to “come together as a country” under leftists but “resist” whenever the right game into power.  Progressives enacted a lot of their agenda by setting Americans against each other and undermining the social/political/cultural/religious/historical norms that used to hold us together as a people; and if conservatives under Trump now up the ante instead of indefinitely paying lip service to old norms that progressives now view as shackles to be used to drag us wholesale into collectivism—well, I still don’t think that leads anywhere good and I think Trump’s tactics inadvisable; but I’m not going to pretend that the ever-increasing division is exclusively or even primarily Trump’s fault.  Trump is Tybalt to Obama’s Iago.

This is completely, like Godless above, taking the Trump vs Cummings exchange in isolation of WHY that exchange took place.  This is no "factionist rhetoric" with a sectionalist/regionalist flavor.  This is COMPLETELY Trump defending Border Patrol from Cumming's vitriol - basically telling Cummings before you accuse Border Patrol of neglect of migrants in detention centers to first go clean up Baltimore.  

 

Edited by anatess2

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

This is completely, like Godless above, taking the Trump vs Cummings exchange in isolation of WHY that exchange took place.  This is no "factionist rhetoric" with a sectionalist/regionalist flavor.  This is COMPLETELY Trump defending Border Patrol from Cumming's vitriol - basically telling Cummings before you accuse Border Patrol of neglect of migrants in detention centers to first go clean up Baltimore.  

 

I think I may actually be taking a broader view than you, in this case.  :)  

Baltimore’s overall dysfunction has been a talking point in conservative circles since the Freddie Gray case; and there has long been tension in the country between “corrupt” big cities and the “flyover” rural heartland.  Congressmen can do relatively little to fix civic issues in their home districts—those generally fall under the purview of state and muni governments—and the takeaway amongst Trump’s intended audience (and myself) isn’t really that MD-7 can and should be immediately fixed (or that Cumming has the abilities and credentials to do it); it’s that the incompetent Cumming and the urban boobs who elected him have zero credibility in setting national policy and/or telling those of us in functional America how to run our lives. It’s more-or-less the same dynamic he tapped into with his tweets on the freshman congressgirls.

And, frankly, the point is a valid one, as far as I’m concerned.

But it’s not a very nice thing to say—and perhaps not very useful if you’re trying to forge/maintain a nation’s identity.  

Edited by Just_A_Guy

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2 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I think I may actually be taking a broader view than you, in this case.  :)  

Baltimore’s overall dysfunction has been a talking point in conservative circles since the Freddie Gray case; and there has long been tension in the country between “corrupt” urban centers and the “flyover” rural heartland.  Congressmen can do relatively little to fix civic issues in their home districts—those generally fall under the purview of state and muni governments—and the takeaway amongst Trump’s intended audience (and myself) isn’t really that MD-7 can and should be immediately fixed (or that Cumming has the abilities and credentials to do it); it’s that the incompetent Cumming and the boobs who elected him have zero credibility in setting national policy and/or telling those of us in functional America how to run our lives. 

Which, frankly, is true; as far as I’m concerned.

But it’s not a very nice thing to say—and perhaps not very useful if you’re trying to forge/maintain a nation’s identity.  

Sure.  But that has nothing to do with what the President did.

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