Can marital relationships be defined before we came to earth ?

[Serviteur du seigneur]

I asked this thing once for someone, and i was told that it couldn't, because it would break the free will given by god to us.

But my patriarchal blessing says that my children are already waiting for my marriage with my wife, and even very briefly describes her personality. 

 

Should i trust what i was told ?

[Jane_Doe]

God knows all.

For a simple example: he knows that if there are free cookies at work, I will eat 2.  And then feel a little guilty as I eat the third.

He also knows the more complex things: He knows what choices you are going to make, when you'll accept His help, and when you'll turn away.  He knows the person you will eventually be with and the fruits of that marriage.

[Serviteur du seigneur]

36 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

God knows all.

For a simple example: he knows that if there are free cookies at work, I will eat 2.  And then feel a little guilty as I eat the third.

He also knows the more complex things: He knows what choices you are going to make, when you'll accept His help, and when you'll turn away.  He knows the person you will eventually be with and the fruits of that marriage.

Well, i guess that it is. It just transcends understanding

[Fether]

3 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I asked this thing once for someone, and i was told that it couldn't, because it would break the free will given by god to us.

But my patriarchal blessing says that my children are already waiting for my marriage with my wife, and even very briefly describes her personality. 

 

Should i trust what i was told ?

Another great question!

and here is another great link  :https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1977/06/i-have-a-question/is-it-true-that-each-of-us-contracted-with-someone-during-our-premortal-lives-to-find-and-marry-that-person-here?lang=eng

[estradling75]

You are talking about "Soul Mates" in the Hollywood romance fantasy crap... and crap is exactly what that is

In the Soul Mate fantasy you find the "One" and there are no struggles or fights or hardships.... You simply have a "Happy Ever after"  That is no more really then the Hollywood fantasy about beauty.

We do believe in Foreordination... That means maybe you can have been called to marry someone in the preexistence (maybe).  If so then like with any calling you can accept it, you can reject it... you can phone it in or you can work to magnify it.  And sometimes maybe you get released from it for a variety of possible reasons.

Because of this I have no reason to doubt people who say they and they feel they found "The One" in fact I really hope they do feel that way about the one they have chosen...   but given how twisted and curved real life can be some times you might need to find another one that is "The One" and if you are in that sad situation then that is OK... in fact I kind of hope it does happen.

Thus it is possible that your Blessing did tell you about a Foreordained spouse(again maybe)... But as the scriptures say "Many are Called but few are chosen"  and in the case of a spouse you are the one that does the choosing... so choose well and wisely.

[mrmarklin]

2 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Well, i guess that it is. It just transcends understanding

Not really. We are taught that God has all things before Him. He’s seeing your future choices in His real time. 

[Anddenex]

4 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I asked this thing once for someone, and i was told that it couldn't, because it would break the free will given by god to us.

But my patriarchal blessing says that my children are already waiting for my marriage with my wife, and even very briefly describes her personality. 

 

Should i trust what i was told ?

If this is what your PB specifies, the easy answer is "Yes" you should trust what you have been told.

If this is your interpretation (I wouldn't share publicly the exact wording of a PB) of what your PB actually says, then, you will want to fast and pray further to more fully understand what the Lord is telling you.

There is no such thing as soul mates. Your wife will be whom you choose, and hopefully whom you have received witness from the Father. Children on the other hand, in some cases, can possibly be foreordained to a married couple according to the foreknowledge of God.

[CV75]

13 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I asked this thing once for someone, and i was told that it couldn't, because it would break the free will given by god to us.

But my patriarchal blessing says that my children are already waiting for my marriage with my wife, and even very briefly describes her personality. 

 

Should i trust what i was told ?

Yes. Just because they can be defined or foreordained doesn't mean that all are, or that people can't and don't make contrary choices. I can't see your blessing, what the Lord meant  or how the Spirit guides you to interpret it, so do your best in what to trust and in trusting.

[Fether]

Early in our marriage, I told my wife that she was not my soul mate and that I could have been happy marrying anyone else. And she could too.

She didn’t quite appreciate that.

[Texan]

3 minutes ago, Fether said:

Early in our marriage, I told my wife that she was not my soul mate and that I could have been happy marrying anyone else. And she could too.

She didn’t quite appreciate that.

I once knew a man who called his wife a "Johnny-come-lately" because he had met her after he'd owned his dog for several years.  The man died later under mysterious circumstances.  I do not know whether the wife had a hand in that.

I'm sure your wife appreciates your honesty, but I can't help but ask whether your skull now has a dent in the shape of a frying pan?

[Guest Mores]

14 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I asked this thing once for someone, and i was told that it couldn't, because it would break the free will given by god to us.

But my patriarchal blessing says that my children are already waiting for my marriage with my wife, and even very briefly describes her personality. 

Should i trust what i was told ?

This is a forced dichotomy.

We've been told by multiple general authorities that this idea of a "soul mate" (one who is the "one and only person" you can be happily married to) is a false belief.  But at the same time, God sees the past, present, and future all in one combined.  So, why wouldn't he be able to see what the future holds for you?  The two ideas have nothing to do with each other.

[Serviteur du seigneur]

5 hours ago, Mores said:

This is a forced dichotomy.

We've been told by multiple general authorities that this idea of a "soul mate" (one who is the "one and only person" you can be happily married to) is a false belief.  But at the same time, God sees the past, present, and future all in one combined.  So, why wouldn't he be able to see what the future holds for you?  The two ideas have nothing to do with each other.

Exactly, the thing is hard to comprehend besides confusing.

 

As others have said, i think that some could have chosen in the pre existence to marry someone they knew there. And the PB just states that.

[NeuroTypical]

Dude: [slicks back hair, pops breath mint]  Hey beautiful.  I had a vision, and the veil lifted to reveal that you promised yourself to me in the pre-existence.

Chick: Whelp!  Changed my mind.  Sorry bro.  Sometimes that's how agency rolls.

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by NeuroTypical

[Vort]

Though it may seem Saturday's Warrior-esque, what exactly is doctrinally implausible about a premortal man and woman agreeing or even covenanting to marry each other? Do we know the mind of God? Is it not entirely possible that, for purposes of lineage, God himself calls Sister X to marry Brother Y?

That the Church never teaches such a thing doesn't therefore mean it is not true. If Jesus were 5'9" tall, that would be a true fact, even though the Church doesn't teach it. There are any number of truths that are not considered a part of the Church's doctrine.

[mikbone]

7 minutes ago, Vort said:

If Jesus were 5'9" tall

Gasp!

 

Let me guess.  You are short stature and are married to your soul mate.

[Vort]

1 minute ago, mikbone said:

Let me guess.  You are short stature and are married to your soul mate.

50%.

(And for the record, 5'9" tall for a man is not "short stature", even in the US. Maybe among the Dinkas.)

[Guest Mores]

1 hour ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Exactly, the thing is hard to comprehend besides confusing.

I wonder if you know what a forced dichotomy is.

1 hour ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

As others have said, i think that some could have chosen in the pre existence to marry someone they knew there. And the PB just states that.

You didn't say that in the OP.  Now that you've said it, I wonder if you're "reading into it" more than it actually says anything of the sort.

[Traveler]

22 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I asked this thing once for someone, and i was told that it couldn't, because it would break the free will given by god to us.

But my patriarchal blessing says that my children are already waiting for my marriage with my wife, and even very briefly describes her personality. 

 

Should i trust what i was told ?

I will give my opinion.  As we talk about agency it is most difficult for me to comprehend that we would come to earth have choices forced upon us without ever having an understanding of the eternal consequences of such choices.  I believe that G-d loves, appreciates and maintains plans.  I also believe G-d intends us to be invested and involved in his plans.  In addition I believe that G-d intends that we make and carry out our own plans.  Again, I believe that having a plan and seeing our plan to furission is the very essence of agency.  With that said - I believe we are preordained to every choice we face in this life.  I see no reason for G-d to hide knowledge from us (I think that is the very definition of deception and lies) - that all his knowledge was available to us in the pre-existence.  Because our knowledge is limited in this life - does not prove we were ignorant in our choices and planning in the pre-existence.  I believe all the possible choices were worked out before we were born.

We also know we have agency in this life (though it is possible that our agency is more limited here than in the pre-existence).  But let me explain something about planning and agency.  A while back we were asked by a prophet to read the Book of Mormon before the end of the year.  We were promised blessing for making and completing this commitment.  So let's say that someone started out with a plan and read - say to halfway through the Book of Mormon.  But then life got complicated and by the end of the year this person failed to complete the task given them.  The promised blessings are lost forever - regardless of even repentance.  The opportunity is lost.  However, I do believe in repentance.  If a person was to repent and then complete reading the Book of Mormon - that there will still be blessings - perhaps even similar blessing that were initially promised but not the same blessing had the person been obedient and fulfilled their agency as planned and intended.

I believe that my wife and I planned our family (including children) in the pre-existence.  I believe that we were both obedient and faithful to our covenants and plan and thus were married for eternity in the temple.  I see no reason to plan to marry in the pre-existence for this life unless we plan such marriage to be for eternity.  It is interesting to me how many things had to happen for us to meet and decide to marry - then to stay married.  The parameters are such that I do not believe our meeting to be a coincidence or chance.   However, I do believe that either of us could have failed within the parameters necessary - but by remaining faithful there would have been a plan B, C or D that would have fulfilled either of our agency and planned purpose to be born into mortality.  With some things I wonder and ponder if I am working on plan ZZZZZZZZZ.  (Please do not mistake the many Z's for sleeping but rather do over's for not getting something right the first time).  For sure, I do not believe anything can or does happen in this life that was not known and planned for in the pre-existence.  I do not believe that G-d nor us came to mortality playing any games of chance.

 

The Traveler

Edited August 6, 2019 by Traveler

[Serviteur du seigneur]

Deleted

Edited May 10, 2020 by Serviteur du seigneur

[Vort]

8 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I'm very sorry for not having the time to write more detailed texts in one the 4 languages i'm always switching

@anatess2, is that you?

[Serviteur du seigneur]

55 minutes ago, Traveler said:

I will give my opinion.  As we talk about agency it is most difficult for me to comprehend that we would come to earth have choices forced upon us without ever having an understanding of the eternal consequences of such choices.  I believe that G-d loves, appreciates and maintains plans.  I also believe G-d intends us to be invested and involved in his plans.  In addition I believe that G-d intends that we make and carry out our own plans.  Again, I believe that having a plan and seeing our plan to furission is the very essence of agency.  With that said - I believe we are preordained to every choice we face in this life.  I see no reason for G-d to hide knowledge from us (I think that is the very definition of deception and lies) - that all his knowledge was available to us in the pre-existence.  Because our knowledge is limited in this life - does not prove we were ignorant in our choices and planning in the pre-existence.  I believe all the possible choices were worked out before we were born.

We also know we have agency in this life (though it is possible that our agency is more limited here than in the pre-existence).  But let me explain something about planning and agency.  A while back we were asked by a prophet to read the Book of Mormon before the end of the year.  We were promised blessing for making and completing this commitment.  So let's say that someone started out with a plan and read - say to halfway through the Book of Mormon.  But then life got complicated and by the end of the year this person failed to complete the task given them.  The promised blessings are lost forever - regardless of even repentance.  The opportunity is lost.  However, I do believe in repentance.  If a person was to repent and then complete reading the Book of Mormon - that there will still be blessings - perhaps even similar blessing that were initially promised but not the same blessing had the person been obedient and fulfilled their agency as planned and intended.

I believe that my wife and I planned our family (including children) in the pre-existence.  I believe that we were both obedient and faithful to our covenants and plan and thus were married for eternity in the temple.  I see no reason to plan to marry in the pre-existence for this life unless we plan such marriage to be for eternity.  It is interesting to me how many things had to happen for us to meet and decide to marry - then to stay married.  The parameters are such that I do not believe our meeting to be a coincidence or chance.   However, I do believe that either of us could have failed within the parameters necessary - but by remaining faithful there would have been a plan B, C or D that would have fulfilled either of our agency and planned purpose to be born into mortality.  With some things I wonder and ponder if I am working on plan ZZZZZZZZZ.  (Please do not mistake the many Z's for sleeping but rather do over's for not getting something right the first time).  For sure, I do not believe anything can or does happen in this life that was not known and planned for in the pre-existence.  I do not believe that G-d nor us came to mortality playing any games of chance.

 

The Traveler

Interesting. Considering that the same could happen to me, i'm curious. How did you know that you already knew her from somewhere ? In this case, even before coming to earth.

[Serviteur du seigneur]

Deleted

Edited May 10, 2020 by Serviteur du seigneur

[Texan]

4 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Dude: [slicks back hair, pops breath mint]  Hey beautiful.  I had a vision, and the veil lifted to reveal that you promised yourself to me in the pre-existence.

Chick: Whelp!  Changed my mind.  Sorry bro.  Sometimes that's how agency rolls.

Wasn't that a scene from The Singles Ward?  If not, it should have been.  Very clever, bravo.

[The Folk Prophet]

I haven't read through the thread yet, but I'm commenting anyway...so apologies if I'm repeating something already stated.

I think the concept that we have free will is severely misunderstood. It's treated as if it means we have free will IN ALL THINGS. That's such a silly idea. We don't. I cannot fly. I cannot turn invisible. I cannot be born on Mars. I cannot breath water. I cannot be something other than what I truly am -- a son of God.

Now I don't know how this plays into everything that we deal with in this life. Of course a lot of things happen to us that are not by choice. Obviously who we marry has some choice related (now-a-days). But the idea that if we didn't have a choice that it destroys free will is irrelevant. What they're trying to imply is that it would destroy agency. That's rubbish. We don't have to have free will in all things, nor were we given free will in all things.

Agency is ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THOSE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN GIVEN FREE WILL IN.

So whether we are pre-destined to marry an individual or not it is irrelevant to whether we behave as we should within that marriage, whether we honor it and are faithful to it, and whether or not we strive to be as God is and would have us be. And it wouldn't have any bearing on our judgment any more than our inability to turn invisible does. We are not judged on turning invisible. And we would not be judged on who we married if that wasn't a choice given us. So that argument is bogus.

Now we have been taught, of course, that we do choose who we marry, and that we are not pre-destined in that thing. But that doesn't mean that the Lord doesn't know the beginning and the end of all things. And it doesn't mean that we weren't 'set up' to marry a specific individual -- pending our choosing correct paths -- in the pre-earth life.

Edited August 7, 2019 by The Folk Prophet

[askandanswer]

On 8/6/2019 at 9:18 AM, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I asked this thing once for someone, and i was told that it couldn't, because it would break the free will given by god to us.

You freely choosing in the pre-existence who you will marry on Earth sounds like the exercise of your free will rather than the breaking of that free will.