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mikbone

Disgruntled about local policy.

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So David A Bednar (Apostle of the Lord) will be presiding and speaking at a neighbouring Stake Conference.  And we have be politely asked not to attend.

I will likely be taking my family for a road trip this Sunday...

You would think that having a Special Witness of Christ in the local area would be a great missionary tool.

 

I can't imagine that when Paul went to Corinth, Athens, or Rome that the local officials asked the members not to visit...

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Rather than jest about being gruntled, I spent precious moments of my life Googling the etymology of the word "disgruntled", and was well rewarded for my diligence. The word "gruntle" is from Middle English and means "to make little grunting noises", as when some people lift heavy (or even not so heavy) things.

 

The prefix dis- is an intensifier. Put 'em together and you have a verb meaning "to grunt and groan a lot". Past participle adjectivize it, and voilà!

"But WAIT! An INTENSIFIER, you say? How on EARTH...?" Well, yes, it is pretty confusing.

dis- can sometimes be an intensifier in old words, such as dismay, where the "-may" part derives from the French esmaier "to disturb, to trouble". So if something really disturbs or troubles you, then you're dismayed. But not necessarily disgruntled.

(As for Elder Bednar, bummer. Sorry to hear it. Enjoy your road trip.)

Edited by Vort

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2 hours ago, mikbone said:

So David A Bednar (Apostle of the Lord) will be presiding and speaking at a neighbouring Stake Conference.  And we have be politely asked not to attend.

I will likely be taking my family for a road trip this Sunday...

You would think that having a Special Witness of Christ in the local area would be a great missionary tool.

 

I can't imagine that when Paul went to Corinth, Athens, or Rome that the local officials asked the members not to visit...

An apostle coming to visit a ward/stake can quickly become a nothing more than a circus attraction for all members in a 100 mile radius. GAs attend stakes with specific needs and they give specific counsel to those in the stake. This seems to be one of those cases.

I imagine Paul and the other early apostles had many private meetings that were held specifically for locals and leaders. But like us today, there is a time and season for all sorts of meetings. For example, not sure if you heard of this, but all the apostles speak to the whole world twice a year. And then there are the face-to-face events, Christmas devotionals, roots tech, and others. What great missionary opportunities they allow us.

And of course the occasional occurrence when one comes to your own stake. How awful would it be if an apostle of the Lord came to speak to your local, small congregation of only 200-500 acquaintances only to find out 2,000 - 5,000 people from across the western USA showed up.

Which brings up another major issue with allowing as many people as they want attend. I don’t know what the capacity is, but there is a definite fire hazard to having so many people in one church building. Perhaps this is the main reason to limit who is invited. They need to adhere to local fire code.

Edited by Fether

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18 hours ago, Vort said:

Rather than jest about being gruntled, I spent precious moments of my life Googling the etymology of the word "disgruntled", and was well rewarded for my diligence. The word "gruntle" is from Middle English and means "to make little grunting noises", as when some people lift heavy (or even not so heavy) things.

...

The prefix dis- is an intensifier. Put 'em together and you have a verb meaning "to grunt and groan a lot". Past participle adjectivize it, and voilà!

"But WAIT! An INTENSIFIER, you say? How on EARTH...?" Well, yes, it is pretty confusing.

...

dis- can sometimes be an intensifier in old words, such as dismay, where the "-may" part derives from the French esmaier "to disturb, to trouble". So if something really disturbs or troubles you, then you're dismayed. But not necessarily disgruntled.

(As for Elder Bednar, bummer. Sorry to hear it. Enjoy your road trip.)

Thanks.

I noticed you also used the word "disturb" which comes from the same root as "turbulent" -- meaning to be troubled.  Disturb means to be very troubled indeed -- trebly troubled.  But I don't hear anyone saying "I'm somewhat turbed."  Instead, we're somewhat disturbed.

Can we really say that we're "somewhat disturbed"?  That would be "somewhat trebly troubled."

Edited by Mores

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16 hours ago, Fether said:

An apostle coming to visit a ward/stake can quickly become a nothing more than a circus attraction for all members in a 100 mile radius. GAs attend stakes with specific needs and they give specific counsel to those in the stake. This seems to be one of those cases.

I imagine Paul and the other early apostles had many private meetings that were held specifically for locals and leaders. But like us today, there is a time and season for all sorts of meetings. For example, not sure if you heard of this, but all the apostles speak to the whole world twice a year. And then there are the face-to-face events, Christmas devotionals, roots tech, and others. What great missionary opportunities they allow us.

And of course the occasional occurrence when one comes to your own stake. How awful would it be if an apostle of the Lord came to speak to your local, small congregation of only 200-500 acquaintances only to find out 2,000 - 5,000 people from across the western USA showed up.

Which brings up another major issue with allowing as many people as they want attend. I don’t know what the capacity is, but there is a definite fire hazard to having so many people in one church building. Perhaps this is the main reason to limit who is invited. They need to adhere to local fire code.

My boy, you sometimes show wisdom beyond your years.

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23 hours ago, mikbone said:

So David A Bednar (Apostle of the Lord) will be presiding and speaking at a neighbouring Stake Conference.  And we have be politely asked not to attend.

I will likely be taking my family for a road trip this Sunday...

You would think that having a Special Witness of Christ in the local area would be a great missionary tool.

 

I can't imagine that when Paul went to Corinth, Athens, or Rome that the local officials asked the members not to visit...

*Shrug*

So, go.

But, no complaining about the size of the crowd.  

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22 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:
23 hours ago, mikbone said:

So David A Bednar (Apostle of the Lord) will be presiding and speaking at a neighbouring Stake Conference.  And we have be politely asked not to attend.

I will likely be taking my family for a road trip this Sunday...

You would think that having a Special Witness of Christ in the local area would be a great missionary tool.

 

I can't imagine that when Paul went to Corinth, Athens, or Rome that the local officials asked the members not to visit...

 *Shrug*

So, go.

 But, no complaining about the size of the crowd.  

Ya, and you better not let him find out you are there in spite of local leaders telling you not to. Of all the apostles, he would be the first to crack the whip.

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I thought to tell a little story from my youth.  There was a old guy in the ward of my childhood.  I only knew him in his old age.  He was old and had no calling in the ward - but he always showed up.  Often in Fast and Testimony meeting he would give his testimony.  I never listened - he was too old to be significant - so I thought.   Also, in my neighborhood was a businessman that married the daughter of Elder Hugh B. Brown.  I did some yard work for this neighbor that was somewhat upper class (had a private swimming pool).  Often Elder Brown would visit and relax by the pool.  I had many opportunities to talk to him - we were on a first name basis and I thought myself more righteous for the experience.

Then the old guy in our ward died.  Elder Brown was a close friend and came to speak at the funeral.  I thought to take advantage of this opportunity and so acquired a date to the event - intending to cash in on my special relationship with Elder Brown and empress a popular girl - or so I thought.  During Elder Brown's talk he said that the old guy was a righteous servant that had a personal knowledge of Christ.  At that moment the spirit spoke to me in a witness that this old guy had stood in the presents of Christ as had Joseph Smith and several others as recorded during the early years of our Church in this dispensation.  

This spiritual manifestation changed a lot in my life.  I never thought that ordinary people in ordinary wards could so be visited by the resurrected Christ.  I thought such only happened to Apostles and Prophets or those destined to be Apostles and Prophets.  I have learned since this event that there are sprinkled throughout this church many great and righteous men and women as worthy before G-d as our Apostles and Prophets.  That we should be as appreciated of their wisdom and witness as that of ordained Apostles and Prophets.   Except that it is important to know our leaders that hold the keys - Moroni 10 points out that all saints have spiritual blessings and that all Saints should be appreciated and held in esteem. 

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

*Shrug*

So, go.

But, no complaining about the size of the crowd.  

I will.  And the more the merrier.

Thanks for the permission.  😀

Id really like to see the events like President Nelson speaking in Safeco field in Seattle occur more often.  

The LDS faith is no longer a tiny fish in the ocean.  We are a huge player in Christianity (not to mention The True Church)!

Private matters can be done behind closed doors at local meeting houses.  But Apostles of the Lord can and should be giving talks, soeeches, addresses, warnings in stadiums, performance halls, open fields, etc.  And they should be open to the public free of charge.

my 2 cents.

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11 minutes ago, mikbone said:

I will.  And the more the merrier.

Thanks for the permission.  😀

Id really like to see the events like President Nelson speaking in Safeco field in Seattle occur more often.  

The LDS faith is no longer a tiny fish in the ocean.  We are a huge player in Christianity (not to mention The True Church)!

Private matters can be done behind closed doors at local meeting houses.  But Apostles of the Lord can and should be giving talks, soeeches, addresses, warnings in stadiums, performance halls, open fields, etc.  And they should be open to the public free of charge.

my 2 cents.

And your donation towards the cost of renting out your local basketball arena will be . . . 

;) 

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1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said:

And your donation towards the cost of renting out your local basketball arena will be . . . 

;) 

The church’s coffers are full.  

The elect have been paying a full tithe.  I cant think of a better way to spend the $.

And I would pay to go..

But I think the missionary benefits for non-members to hear the word of God from the Apostles would far outweigh the costs...

And doesn’t have to be basketball arenas.  Convention centers, Theaters, Auditoriums, Casinos, Outside, whatever...

Depending on the speaker and the event the crowds will differ in size.  I am sure that there are specialists who could pick appropriate venues (even including local fire code etc).

Edited by mikbone

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I blame no one (specifically, not mikbone) for taking his children to see an apostle of Jesus Christ, or simply for going himself. But in general, I subscribe to the quaint and probably naive notion that I will be more blessed for obedience to my leaders than for fulfilling my own desires.

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Somehow it strikes me that if being in the presence of the apostle is the priority rather than the message(s) then there's a problem with focus. In the time of Paul the only way to really hear him speak was to be there in person. That just isn't the case any longer. I'm not against being in person when possible, and I understand the sort of hero worship we tend to have. But there's no greater potential for the Spirit and conversion and all in person than there is via the internet and/or television if we are willing. We have such amazing access to the apostles now.

Need some Bednar in your life?

Here:

 

 

Edited by The Folk Prophet

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11 hours ago, MrShorty said:

How many fights on the internet begin with these (or similar) words? Nothing to add to the specific policy under discussion, but that phrase caught my eye.

Or its corollary, “The church’s coffers are full (and I’m just the boy to tell them what they should do with it all)!” ;) 

We’re really going to lam into the apostles because they sometimes have the temerity to spend a Sunday speaking at a stake center rather than Yankee Stadium?

Really?  

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On 8/7/2019 at 11:40 AM, mikbone said:

So David A Bednar (Apostle of the Lord) will be presiding and speaking at a neighbouring Stake Conference.  And we have be politely asked not to attend.

I will likely be taking my family for a road trip this Sunday...

You would think that having a Special Witness of Christ in the local area would be a great missionary tool.

 

I can't imagine that when Paul went to Corinth, Athens, or Rome that the local officials asked the members not to visit...

A neighbouring Stake Conference? Does that mean this is not your Stake? If so, are they letting people of that Stake attend?

M.

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2 hours ago, Maureen said:

A neighbouring Stake Conference? Does that mean this is not your Stake? If so, are they letting people of that Stake attend?

M.

Local leadership asked Mikbone's stake not to come.  Hence his disgruntled thread.  

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12 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Somehow it strikes me that if being in the presence of the apostle is the priority rather than the message(s) then there's a problem with focus. In the time of Paul the only way to really hear him speak was to be there in person. That just isn't the case any longer. I'm not against being in person when possible, and I understand the sort of hero worship we tend to have. But there's no greater potential for the Spirit and conversion and all in person than there is via the internet and/or television if we are willing. We have such amazing access to the apostles now.

Need some Bednar in your life?

Here:

 

 

This ☝️☝️☝️☝️

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So, I didn’t make it to church last week (Ox was in the mire again... I was stuck fixing broken bones).  And the leadership did not politely ask the members to not visit the neighboring stake conference.

But, a friend let slip that Elder Bednar was going to visit his ward.  When I asked a member from my stake leadership (Anesthesiologist) about attending the neighboring stake conference he stated that I was not supposed to know about Elder Bednar’s visit. 

I mentioned that I wanted to go.  He stated that the leadership would be given name tags and that you couldn’t get into the leadership meeting without one.  I replied that I had no intention of going to the leadership meeting.  But that I did intend to take my whole slew of children to the meeting wherein Elder Bednar presided over the stake conference.  He mumbled something under his breath.

It strikes me of Matthew 19:13-14

I don’t live in Utah where you stumble into General Authorities at Chic-fil-a.  I grew up in Texas and was able to see a GA twice during my youth.  Both instances were formative.  

I’m not trying to be an Apostle groupie.  I want my children to see a servant of the Lord.  He is a special witness.  The spirit of the Lord will be there and possibly an apostolic promise. 

And I love Bednar’s last conference address wherein he repeated Presidents Nelson’s council that more restoration is coming and to eat your vitamins.  Home centered and Church Supported was hit hard as well as temples.

I can’t wait for conference.  And still think that they should be moved from semi-annually to quarterly D&C 20:61

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20 minutes ago, mikbone said:

So, I didn’t make it to church last week (Ox was in the mire again... I was stuck fixing broken bones).  And the leadership did not politely ask the members to not visit the neighboring stake conference.

But, a friend let slip that Elder Bednar was going to visit his ward.  When I asked a member from my stake leadership (Anesthesiologist) about attending the neighboring stake conference he stated that I was not supposed to know about Elder Bednar’s visit. 

I mentioned that I wanted to go.  He stated that the leadership would be given name tags and that you couldn’t get into the leadership meeting without one.  I replied that I had no intention of going to the leadership meeting.  But that I did intend to take my whole slew of children to the meeting wherein Elder Bednar presided over the stake conference.  He mumbled something under his breath.

It strikes me of Matthew 19:13-14

I don’t live in Utah where you stumble into General Authorities at Chic-fil-a.  I grew up in Texas and was able to see a GA twice during my youth.  Both instances were formative.  

I’m not trying to be an Apostle groupie.  I want my children to see a servant of the Lord.  He is a special witness.  The spirit of the Lord will be there and possibly an apostolic promise. 

And I love Bednar’s last conference address wherein he repeated Presidents Nelson’s council that more restoration is coming and to eat your vitamins.  Home centered and Church Supported was hit hard as well as temples.

I can’t wait for conference.  And still think that they should be moved from semi-annually to quarterly D&C 20:61

I understand were you are coming from completely. It's a big deal to see an apostle, and we want to do everything possible to see one. Especially if we live out of Utah. 

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1 hour ago, mikbone said:

 

I don’t live in Utah where you stumble into General Authorities at Chic-fil-a.  I grew up in Texas and was able to see a GA twice during my youth.  Both instances were formative.  

I just want to say that a grew up in Utah and am very much a Utah Mormon. Aside from my mission, I have only ever seen a GA once in my life. And that was when Elder Nelson came to visit my stake. It was a very pleasant experience because there were only about 500 people there and he spoke to us personally as a collective stake. and we were all able to shake his hand (he is pretty short btw).

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1 hour ago, mikbone said:

I don’t live in Utah where you stumble into General Authorities at Chic-fil-a.  I grew up in Texas and was able to see a GA twice during my youth.  Both instances were formative.  

I’m not trying to be an Apostle groupie.  I want my children to see a servant of the Lord.  He is a special witness.  The spirit of the Lord will be there and possibly an apostolic promise. 

And I love Bednar’s last conference address wherein he repeated Presidents Nelson’s council that more restoration is coming and to eat your vitamins.  Home centered and Church Supported was hit hard as well as temples.

I can’t wait for conference.  And still think that they should be moved from semi-annually to quarterly D&C 20:61

I'm sure you jest a bit about Chick-fil-A, but seeing a GA twice in your youth is 2 more than I ever did. I have grown up and lived in Utah most of my life, and I never met or saw a GA as a youth. The only times I have seen an Apostle were at the MTC when Elder Scott came to speak (I was way back in the nosebleed section) and 2 years ago when Elder Christofferson spoke at a multi-stake training in the Ogden Tabernacle. (again, 3rd row from the back) I have never been to General Conference. I do work alongside the church now, and frequently see members of the Seventy around Temple Square, especially at conference time, and have talked to a few on occasion. I actually interviewed with one for a job last year. Never an apostle though. I admit that I would want my kids to see him too...it isn't the kind of thing that happens every day around here.

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4 hours ago, mikbone said:

(Ox was in the mire again... I was stuck fixing broken bones)

Sell the ox or fill the mire, mik. You need to start scheduling those bone breaks better.

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