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What does it mean that an apostle is a special witness of Christ?

What does it mean that an apostle is a special witness of Christ?  

21 members have voted

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  1. 1. What does it mean that an apostle is a special witness of Christ?

    • It means that the apostle has actually seen Jesus Christ in the flesh, spoken with him, probably touched the tokens of his crucifixion in his hands and feet.
      3
    • It means that the apostle has received a special spiritual witness, greater than that given to most others, of the reality of the living Christ and his atoning sacrifice.
      8
    • It means that the apostle has received a witness. All witnesses are special. We should all receive that "special witness", so we can bear the same testimony as the apostles.
      2
    • It means only that the apostles have received the assignment to bear testimony of Christ to the world. It doesn't mean there's some special knowledge bestowed.
      4
    • It means something else, which I will explain in a response in this thread.
      4
    • I don't have a clue what the "special witness" thing is supposed to mean.
      0

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  • Poll closed on 08/17/19 at 02:37 AM

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On 8/17/2019 at 8:03 PM, mikbone said:

Although your words may be clear in your mind.  I don’t understand what you are trying to communicate.

I'm not sure how it's unclear. The scriptures teach that the reason the Holy Ghost can dwell in us is because He does not have a body. If that's the scripture truth then it follows that God the Father and Jesus Christ, having bodies, cannot do this, despite whatever knowledge they have. 

How is this hard to understand? 

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19 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm not sure how it's unclear. The scriptures teach that the reason the Holy Ghost can dwell in us is because He does not have a body. If that's the scripture truth then it follows that God the Father and Jesus Christ, having bodies, cannot do this, despite whatever knowledge they have. 

How is this hard to understand? 

I believe that you have made an error in logic.  Yes, the Holy Ghost can dwell within us because he is a personage of spirit.

This does not however preclude the Father and Son from dwelling within us.  Indeed the Son’s Light of Christ dwells within us.  D&C 88:13

Take scripture verses like

John 10:30, John 17:21-23, Romans 8:9-11, 2 Corinthians 13:5, etc.

Jesus Christ and Elohim’s physical bodies do not dwell within us but their power, glory, and influence can.

Lets be realistic.  We barely understand the workings of a mortal body.  We neither understand spirit matter nor resurrected bodies.  

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Originally it meant that they would have seen him.  Thus, they are special witnesses specifically called to be witnesses that he lives and that he leads the church.  They literally had seen this in action.

Later, as some were not as clear on this, and some even would go as far as to say they had not seen him (for example, I believe Lorenzo Snow is not entirely clear on this, though we know he saw him as a Prophet, it implies that he may not have seen him prior to that event in the Temple) as an apostle definitively.  However, they would say they had a higher spiritual experience (sometimes upon their being called as an apostle and the deep prayer and meditation that came afterwards on that) than many, and with that came the power and authority.

HOWEVER...I believe that is NOT the title they profess to have today...which is interesting and can open an entirely DIFFERENT can of worms.  I believe today they are officially said to be special witnesses of the NAME of Jesus Christ...which is an interesting change.

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On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 2:07 PM, priesthoodpower said:

No other prophet since Joseph has testified meeting God or Jesus face to face, but if they did i believe it would be in a "Spiritual Vision" similar to Josephs Vision where God/Jesus would be in a glorified physical form. 

We have had others that have stated outright that they have met the Lord (eg...see Lorenzo Snow above).  Others have implied or left implication for others, at times not exactly clear or not clear on whether they did or did not.  The most recent of these that I know of personally (or have at least heard of personally) is Elder Bednar.  However, they do not normally make these things publically announced for various reasons.

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7 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I'm not sure how it's unclear. The scriptures teach that the reason the Holy Ghost can dwell in us is because He does not have a body. If that's the scripture truth then it follows that God the Father and Jesus Christ, having bodies, cannot do this, despite whatever knowledge they have. 

How is this hard to understand? 

Not as direct, but sometimes I think the Holy Ghost is more of a constant companion, rather than something possessing us or living inside our bodies.  It is something that can intermingle without our spirit, but not something that invades or lives in the same space as we do.

A proper comparison I think would be if you are married and have a spouse.  They are your eternal companion (if married in the Temple).  They could always be with you, talk to you, and give you constant advice (if you listen).  They can even be in your heart at all times (thinking and letting them be in your heart, metaphorically speaking).  However, your spouse is a companion, not someone who comes and merges into your body.

Now, it is possible for spirits to reside very close, and possibly the Holy Ghost can be in you at the same time, but most of the time I think that it is more as a companion which can give you inspiration, talk to you, and give you advice.  In the same manner, those around you can sometimes feel the Holy Ghost is with you, and it's influence is also affecting them if you are righteous enough.  The Holy Ghost is something that is not restricted by time or space, but it is a Being that is able to communicate with us if we are willing to listen and are righteous and faithful enough to not drive it out of our presence.  I feel it more often is trying to talk to us through the language of Heaven rather than trying to actually be something that is inside our bodies (as one would put it, or so it appears in this thead).  We want the spirit to be with us, it's influence and spirit to be in us, but it is not necessarily another being constantly dwelling inside this mortal frame alongside our own spirit...in my opinion.

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8 hours ago, mikbone said:

I believe that you have made an error in logic.

The scripture plainly says the Father and Son have a body of flesh and bones but the Spirit does not, otherwise He could not dwell within us, and I'm the one with the error in logic?

O.......kay.

8 hours ago, mikbone said:

Jesus Christ and Elohim’s physical bodies do not dwell within us but their power, glory, and influence can.

Yeah... Through the Holy Ghost.

8 hours ago, mikbone said:

Lets be realistic.  We barely understand the workings of a mortal body.  We neither understand spirit matter nor resurrected bodies.  

Yes. But I do very plainly understand the meaning of the words, "were it not so".

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3 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Originally it meant that they would have seen him.

@Just_A_Guy has already referenced the Cowdery's apostolic charge. Are you referring to something more original than the first apostles of this dispensation?

Edited by mordorbund

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