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Can Latter-day Saints Use Birth Control?

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8 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

The population can not grow indefinitely uncontrolled, our planet will not keep up to serve this demand and it will be a total disaster.

There are so many poor kids starving to death in africa, humanity can not even take care of what we already have. Besides that, Everywhere is just so crowded, take a look at how the japanese people live because of their concentrated overpopulation, there's barely pure air to breath in those places, there's not even space, they have to live small bedrooms. 

 

Every crowded place becomes a disaster, you can think of china and india ,the US seems to be going the same way, it's becoming that big thing, running out of control, the south of the country is not at all a first world anymore, incomparable to Canada, which is small in population and easy to administer. And that's one of the reasons that makes european countries such as the nordics perform so well in everything. Lesser the population, the better the land becomes.

Africa is starving to death not because they have a lot of children.  Rather, they have a lot of children BECAUSE they're starving to death.  Human instinct is survival - human survival becomes more possible when humans pass on their genetics to the next generation in the hopes that the next generation will survive.

China and India are not disasters.  It is such an elitist thing for a First Worlder to think China and India are disasters because they haven't achieved the level of monetary wealth that is the measure of happiness in the First World.

Japan is not overcrowded.  Japanese population is concentrated in the big cities because that's where current industry is.  The rest of Japan is sparse.  To call this overcrowded is like saying that in the Medieval Era, Rome is overcrowded... well, duh.

And Canada is, uhm, better?... than the US?  Really?   And you have European leaders thinking "we need immigration because we don't have enough population to labor..."  Yeah...

And to say that the measure of success is... the size of your bathrooms?  Yep.  Only an elite First Worlder thinks of humanity in such terms.

 

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8 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

The population can not grow indefinitely uncontrolled, our planet will not keep up to serve this demand and it will be a total disaster.

The world population has gotten this large because we've innovated building materials and structures so that the land can physically hold more people. The world population has gotten this large because we've innovated agricultural advances so the land can sustain more people. Has something changed in the last 10 years to make you think additional innovations won't happen?

8 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

There are so many poor kids starving to death in africa, humanity can not even take care of what we already have. Besides that, Everywhere is just so crowded, take a look at how the japanese people live because of their concentrated overpopulation, there's barely pure air to breath in those places, there's not even space, they have to live small bedrooms. 

How will a Brazilian, American, or Western people limiting their own family size prevent overpopulation in Japan or starvation in Africa? Regarding starvation in Africa, I'll point out that it looks to be wealthy Westerners who are out to solve this problem. Perhaps we shouldn't limit the number of those we're producing?

Also, in agrarian societies (which includes those areas of Africa you're undoubtedly thinking of) families with more children have an economic advantage.

8 hours ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Every crowded place becomes a disaster, you can think of china and india ,the US seems to be going the same way, it's becoming that big thing, running out of control, the south of the country is not at all a first world anymore, incomparable to Canada, which is small in population and easy to administer.

Just as a clarification, is "the south of the country" a reference to Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana? Or Texas, Arizona, Southern California?

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7 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

Just as a clarification, is "the south of the country" a reference to Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana? Or Texas, Arizona, Southern California?

Something I missed to mention in my reply to @Serviteur du seigneur... he said societies are better if they are "easier to administer".  Yep.  That's very French.  The thinking that governments should "administer" humanity.  

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2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Something I missed to mention in my reply to @Serviteur du seigneur... he said societies are better if they are "easier to administer".  Yep.  That's very French.  The thinking that governments should "administer" humanity.  

Don't know if this changes your assessment: his handle is French but he self-identifies as Brazilian.

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13 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

The world population has gotten this large because we've innovated building materials and structures so that the land can physically hold more people. The world population has gotten this large because we've innovated agricultural advances so the land can sustain more people. Has something changed in the last 10 years to make you think additional innovations won't happen?

I'll simplify this concept.

The world population has gotten this large because PEOPLE STOPPED DYING.

One would think that's a GOOD THING... 

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Just now, mordorbund said:

Don't know if this changes your assessment: his handle is French but he self-identifies as Brazilian.

Nope.  Doesn't change at all... he obviously likes European-style governance.

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22 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Africa is starving to death not because they have a lot of children.  Rather, they have a lot of children BECAUSE they're starving to death.  Human instinct is survival - human survival becomes more possible when humans pass on their genetics to the next generation in the hopes that the next generation will survive.

China and India are not disasters.  It is such an elitist thing for a First Worlder to think China and India are disasters because they haven't achieved the level of monetary wealth that is the measure of happiness in the First World.

Japan is not overcrowded.  Japanese population is concentrated in the big cities because that's where current industry is.  The rest of Japan is sparse.  To call this overcrowded is like saying that in the Medieval Era, Rome is overcrowded... well, duh.

And Canada is, uhm, better?... than the US?  Really?   And you have European leaders thinking "we need immigration because we don't have enough population to labor..."  Yeah...

And to say that the measure of success is... the size of your bathrooms?  Yep.  Only an elite First Worlder thinks of humanity in such terms.

 

How can someone going through starvation even think about having children ? Does the person think that's going to get better if there's one more to feed?

Tell me, why does canada scores higher than the us on the hdi, if it's not better ? In other index comparisons, the US doesn't even appear on the top 20.

 

Europe might even need some small numbers of qualified people. But it's not much, in a way that their population won't change.

I that if someone has the choice, they wouldn't like to live in a bedroom that barely fits your bed. So yes, it's a measure.

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23 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Something I missed to mention in my reply to @Serviteur du seigneur... he said societies are better if they are "easier to administer".  Yep.  That's very French.  The thinking that governments should "administer" humanity.  

Just organization thing. I think that people need to organize themselves and have a leader, dont ?

20 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

Don't know if this changes your assessment: his handle is French but he self-identifies as Brazilian.

That's correct. I'm studying the language so i used it a lot.

18 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Nope.  Doesn't change at all... he obviously likes European-style governance.

I love. Do you feel safe knowing that if you have any ilness or health problems you can be bankrupted at any time ? Due to the lack of a basic universal health system that could guarantee safety for the homeless and everyone. It's so christlike

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12 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

How can someone going through starvation even think about having children ? Does the person think that's going to get better if there's one more to feed?

I am Filipino.  My parents grew up in poverty.  I didn't.  My father is one of 9 children of very poor parents.  My grandparents were the lucky ones.  Their generation were dying left and right - wars, diseases, starvation, etc. etc.  They were the ones to live.  Because of that, they have 9 children before my grandmother couldn't physically have any more.  She's a lucky one - she didn't have any children die which is not the norm.  Even today, the childbirth survival in the Philippines is terrible, so much more in World War II era.  All 9 children worked even as they all had to flee every so often from Japanese invaders.  That's 9 people bringing resources into the household as young as 3 years old digging peanuts after catching fish and sea urchins.  They all went to school after the war was over because my grandparents became teachers.  All 9 children became professionals - lawyer, doctor, nurses, engineers... that's how my father's family made it out of poverty in one generation.  My uncle became the mayor of our ancestral town.  And he was instrumental in taking that town out of extreme poverty and into the small but thriving town it now is.  He was the one that brought electricity and phone lines and paved roads into the town.  His brother became the mayor later on and he brought in conservation projects to protect fisheries and coral reefs... you know when your town has made it out of extreme poverty when the town gains the luxury to implement environmental protections.

When children are dying, you have more children.  That's because, in a good family, children are ASSETS not liabilities.  To think of children as "mouths to feed" is unGodly.  Children are SPIRITS with their own unique talents and abilities that, when brought up by good parents, become pillars of great societies.

 

12 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Tell me, why does canada scores higher than the us on the hdi, if it's not better ? In other index comparisons, the US doesn't even appear on the top 20.

The USA was HIGHER ranked than Canada just 2 years ago.  Canada outranked the US by 0.02 points in 2017.  You know why that is?  Because more and more American youth decided they don't need University indoctrination.

 

12 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

 

Europe might even need some small numbers of qualified people. But it's not much, in a way that their population won't change.

Really?  That's why Europe is opening their borders to economic migrants?  You think they're checking their "qualifications" at the border?  Have you ever listened to childless Angela Merkel speak about immigration at the EU Council?

 

12 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

 

I that if someone has the choice, they wouldn't like to live in a bedroom that barely fits your bed. So yes, it's a measure.

Really???  I am, right now, designing a Tiny House.  24 feet by 8.5 feet.  That's my new home in about 2 years.

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44 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

How can someone going through starvation even think about having children ? Does the person think that's going to get better if there's one more to feed?

In non-cushy societies, weaned children are laborers.

1 hour ago, mordorbund said:

Also, in agrarian societies (which includes those areas of Africa you're undoubtedly thinking of) families with more children have an economic advantage.

 

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30 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Just organization thing. I think that people need to organize themselves and have a leader, dont ?

You don't need a government to tell you how to live your life.  As a matter of fact, you SHOULDN'T have a government that tells you how to live your life.  That's what FATHERs are for.

 

30 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

I love. Do you feel safe knowing that if you have any ilness or health problems you can be bankrupted at any time ? Due to the lack of a basic universal health system that could guarantee safety for the homeless and everyone. It's so christlike

Yeah... because the only way you can be healthy is to have a government dictate that SOMEBODY ELSE PAY for it. 

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

am Filipino.  My parents grew up in poverty.  I didn't.  My father is one of 9 children of very poor parents.  My grandparents were the lucky ones.  Their generation were dying left and right - wars, diseases, starvation, etc. etc.  They were the ones to live.  Because of that, they have 9 children before my grandmother couldn't physically have any more.  She's a lucky one - she didn't have any children die which is not the norm.  Even today, the childbirth survival in the Philippines is terrible, so much more in World War II era.  All 9 children worked even as they all had to flee every so often from Japanese invaders.  That's 9 people bringing resources into the household as young as 3 years old digging peanuts after catching fish and sea urchins.  They all went to school after the war was over because my grandparents became teachers.  All 9 children became professionals - lawyer, doctor, nurses, engineers... that's how my father's family made it out of poverty in one generation.  My uncle became the mayor of our ancestral town.  And he was instrumental in taking that town out of extreme poverty and into the small but thriving town it now is.  He was the one that brought electricity and phone lines and paved roads into the town.  His brother became the mayor later on and he brought in conservation projects to protect fisheries and coral reefs... you know when your town has made it out of extreme poverty when the town gains the luxury to implement environmental protections.

When children are dying, you have more children.  That's because, in a good family, children are ASSETS not liabilities.  To think of children as "mouths to feed" is unGodly.  Children are SPIRITS with their own unique talents and abilities that, when brought up by good parents, become pillars of great societies.

 

Couldn't they have adopt instead of just putting more and more ? I'm shure that in a place so devastated by wars, there was probably lots of orphan children in need of parents.

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2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

The USA was HIGHER ranked than Canada just 2 years ago.  Canada outranked the US by 0.02 points in 2017.  You know why that is?  Because more and more American youth decided they don't need University indoctrination.

Yeah. But i have a question, why does in every other index that comes to my mind, canada scores so much higher than the US ? 🤔 🤔

Sometimes the US doesn't even appear on the top 20. Here follows all the index to measure quality of life that came in mind.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_long-term_unemployment_rate

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_country

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_per_adult

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment

https://worldtop20.org/worldbesteducationsystem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Country_Index

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_health_insurance_coverage

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

 

Edited by Serviteur du seigneur

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2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Really?  That's why Europe is opening their borders to economic migrants?  You think they're checking their "qualifications" at the border?  Have you ever listened to childless Angela Merkel speak about immigration at the EU Council?

Way easier than bringing lots of children.

 

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

You don't need a government to tell you how to live your life.  As a matter of fact, you SHOULDN'T have a government that tells you how to live your life.  That's what FATHERs are for.

Lets embrace anarchy. According to you, laws are for fools.

 

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Yeah... because the only way you can be healthy is to have a government dictate that SOMEBODY ELSE PAY for it. 

It's a small contribution that helps and returns back to everyone. So no one is paying someone else's treatment. It's just, That's how a model developed society works, TOGETHER.

How do you think that jesus government would be ? Closer to the US or europe, that doesn't care about helping others ?

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39 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Couldn't they have adopt instead of just putting more and more ? I'm shure that in a place so devastated by wars, there was probably lots of orphan children in need of parents.

No.  Why would they when they are capable of having their own?  You think children are just available everywhere for free like in garage sales or something?

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9 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Way easier than bringing lots of children.

Hah hah!  So this is not about population control.  This is about convenience.  Nice.

 

9 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

 

Lets embrace anarchy. According to you, laws are for fools.

Really?  You think that's what I said? 

 

9 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

It's a small contribution that helps and returns back to everyone. So no one is paying someone else's treatment. It's just, That's how a model developed society works, TOGETHER.

No.  Actually, that's not how "model" developed society works.  You just think it works because you're not the one having to go to the Philippines to get your MRSA diagnosed because the Canadian system makes you have to wait for 6 months just to see a doctor and you can't afford a private one because all your money went to taxes to pay for somebody else's healthcare.

 

9 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

How do you think that jesus government would be ? Closer to the US or europe, that doesn't care about helping others ?

Jesus famously said... give to Ceasar what is Ceasars.  Give to God what is God's.  You just have this mistaken idea that you can't care about helping others unless you let the government do it for you.

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1 hour ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Couldn't they have adopt instead of just putting more and more ? I'm shure that in a place so devastated by wars, there was probably lots of orphan children in need of parents.

Careful there, you're awfully close to advocating for slavery.

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

NoActually, that's not how "model" developed society works.  You just think it works because you're not the one having to go to the Philippines to get your MRSA diagnosed because the Canadian system makes you have to wait for 6 months just to see a doctor and you can't afford a private one because all your money went to taxes to pay for somebody else's healthcare.

Really ? Why dont you answer my question of lots of quality of life index where canada ranks MUCH higher than the US. Help me !!!!!! I dont understand why is that happening, if the so beautiful and perfect US of a is so great. 

According to you, the canadians live in an awfull dictatorship where they have to pay everyone's treatment, BUT that doesn't reflect on all of the indexes that came in my mind. I CAN'T SEE WHY !!!

HELP!!!!!

 

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Really?  You think that's what I said? 

Yeah. Really.

 

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

No.  Why would they when they are capable of having their own?  You think children are just available everywhere for free like in garage sales or something?

Maybe because they could be less selfish and help other children that dont have their genes.

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

NoActually, that's not how "model" developed society works.  You just think it works because you're not the one having to go to the Philippines to get your MRSA diagnosed because the Canadian system makes you have to wait for 6 months just to see a doctor and you can't afford a private one because all your money went to taxes to pay for somebody else's healthcare.

Open your mind. Canada is not the only country in the world offering universal healthcare. The internet is filled of americans telling how impressed they were using some european universal systems, such as those from norway.

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@anatess2 this waiting time of 6 months is really weird. In Brazil, we have a universal healthcare system, the canadian is arguably much better than the brazilian one, yet in this 3° world nation when i use public health i usually have to wait 2 to 3 weeks to see a doctor. So this 6 month waiting time in canada is doubtfull, to say the least.

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6 hours ago, anatess2 said:

...No.  Actually, that's not how "model" developed society works.  You just think it works because you're not the one having to go to the Philippines to get your MRSA diagnosed because the Canadian system makes you have to wait for 6 months just to see a doctor and you can't afford a private one because all your money went to taxes to pay for somebody else's healthcare...

I don't know if you're going by anecdotal information here but I doubt it would take 6 months to confirm a MRSA diagnosis. For one thing if a person does not have a family doctor they can easily go to a walk-in-clinic in their neighbourhood without an appointment. Paper work would be given to take to an Out-patient lab (with or without an appt.) And of course time for the lab to grow a culture but probably not any slower than a US lab.

And if someone wants a family doctor it's as easy as googling "doctors accepting new patients". Having access to a doctor is quite easy in Canada; in my province it is.

M.

Edited by Maureen

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21 hours ago, Maureen said:

I don't know if you're going by anecdotal information here but I doubt it would take 6 months to confirm a MRSA diagnosis. For one thing if a person does not have a family doctor they can easily go to a walk-in-clinic in their neighbourhood without an appointment. Paper work would be given to take to an Out-patient lab (with or without an appt.) And of course time for the lab to grow a culture but probably not any slower than a US lab.

And if someone wants a family doctor it's as easy as googling "doctors accepting new patients". Having access to a doctor is quite easy in Canada; in my province it is.

M.

Hm... obviously a dictatorship where you have to pay everyone's health.

So you re a canadian ? How do you handle your envy of your great southern neighbor ? But dont consider those 12 of the most important quality of life indexes in the world showing canada ahead of US, they are all "fake news", as a great christian and honored leader likes to say.

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33 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Hm... obviously a dictatorship where you have to pay everyone's health.

So you re a canadian ? How do you handle your envy of your great southern neighbor ? But dont consider those 12 of the most important quality of life indexes in the world showing canada ahead of US, they are all "fake news", as a great christian and honored leader likes to say.

I definitely prefer the Canadian healthcare system, particularly Alberta Healthcare. I live in a large city so I have easy access to healthcare. Rural areas aren't as easy since if they require certain healthcare they need to travel, but I guess that applies everywhere.

M.

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