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On 11/8/2019 at 3:41 PM, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Really ? Why dont you answer my question of lots of quality of life index where canada ranks MUCH higher than the US. Help me !!!!!! I dont understand why is that happening, if the so beautiful and perfect US of a is so great. 

According to you, the canadians live in an awfull dictatorship where they have to pay everyone's treatment, BUT that doesn't reflect on all of the indexes that came in my mind. I CAN'T SEE WHY !!!

HELP!!!!!

 

Yeah... indexes.  Depends on what you measure.  Which is the most important to you... Liberty or Having-Somebody-Pay-if-I-get-Cancer?  Would you rather that somebody sets out the rules on what you can and can't do, who can and can't get treatment, what is covered and what is not covered?  Or would you rather figure all that out on your own with nobody dictating how you provide for your healthcare?  Therein lies the conflict... 

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On 11/8/2019 at 9:21 PM, Maureen said:

I don't know if you're going by anecdotal information here but I doubt it would take 6 months to confirm a MRSA diagnosis. For one thing if a person does not have a family doctor they can easily go to a walk-in-clinic in their neighbourhood without an appointment. Paper work would be given to take to an Out-patient lab (with or without an appt.) And of course time for the lab to grow a culture but probably not any slower than a US lab.

And if someone wants a family doctor it's as easy as googling "doctors accepting new patients". Having access to a doctor is quite easy in Canada; in my province it is.

M.

My brother is a neurologist in the Philippines.  More than half his patients are from Canada, Australia, or US Veterans (and that's why he was able to build a 7-bedroom 5-bathroom house).  He had a Canadian patient that was told to see a neurologist.  The appointment was in 6 months.  He couldn't wait so he went to the Philippines and ended up with my brother.  He had MRSA - not a neuro issue.

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16 hours ago, anatess2 said:

My brother is a neurologist in the Philippines.  More than half his patients are from Canada, Australia, or US Veterans (and that's why he was able to build a 7-bedroom 5-bathroom house).  He had a Canadian patient that was told to see a neurologist.  The appointment was in 6 months.  He couldn't wait so he went to the Philippines and ended up with my brother.  He had MRSA - not a neuro issue.

Your brother must be a very good one. Because lady, it surely is not common to have people from the most developed nations fleeing to see a doctor in the philippines.

16 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Yeah... indexes.  Depends on what you measure.  Which is the most important to you... Liberty or Having-Somebody-Pay-if-I-get-Cancer?  Would you rather that somebody sets out the rules on what you can and can't do, who can and can't get treatment, what is covered and what is not covered?  Or would you rather figure all that out on your own with nobody dictating how you provide for your healthcare?  Therein lies the conflict... 

They say its meant to measure security, life expectancy, health and all these stuff.

But Not really important, who cares about these "indexes" anyway, if you have liberty.

 

Out of the ironies, whats liberty for you ? Not paying 80 euros a YEAR for a contribution so everyone can have access to a health of quality ?

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On 11/8/2019 at 10:45 AM, mordorbund said:

The world population has gotten this large because we've innovated building materials and structures so that the land can physically hold more people. The world population has gotten this large because we've innovated agricultural advances so the land can sustain more people. Has something changed in the last 10 years to make you think additional innovations won't happen?

How will a Brazilian, American, or Western people limiting their own family size prevent overpopulation in Japan or starvation in Africa? Regarding starvation in Africa, I'll point out that it looks to be wealthy Westerners who are out to solve this problem. Perhaps we shouldn't limit the number of those we're producing?

Also, in agrarian societies (which includes those areas of Africa you're undoubtedly thinking of) families with more children have an economic advantage.

Just as a clarification, is "the south of the country" a reference to Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana? Or Texas, Arizona, Southern California?

@Serviteur du seigneur since you've moved on to nationalized insurance can I take that as tacit acknowledgement that my points are valid and you need to reconsider your population control ideas?

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On 11/8/2019 at 1:06 PM, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Yeah. But i have a question, why does in every other index that comes to my mind, canada scores so much higher than the US ? 🤔 🤔

Sometimes the US doesn't even appear on the top 20. Here follows all the index to measure quality of life that came in mind.

I'm wondering if you actually know what these things are.  Some of them don't support your position or have anything to do with your position.

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We WERE in the elite group (better than 80%) prior to Obamacare.  We dropped every single year of the Obama administration (except 2016).  We've been rising very slowly since Trump took office.  And in 2016 we were back above the 80% line.  We slipped just a bit since then because of many other societal issues (such as LGBT activism suing businesses for people just wanting to run a business).

Additionally, the Hong Kong Morning Post doesn't agree with the assessment that they are the freest.

https://www.scmp.com/business/article/1405726/claims-economic-freedom-index-simply-dont-stand

And they make a pretty good argument that the study seems flawed.

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Income inequality in and of itself does not tell us anything useful.  It can be a sign that warlords and corrupt governments are hoarding all the money.  Or it can be a measure of success.  As the lowest participants in a modern economy rise (in real income) the income inequality will also expand out as well.  So, what if Bill Gates makes more money?  Good for him.  I just want to know if MY income is increasing as well.  And it has.

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You're joking right?  Do you not realize that the longest term of unemployment occurred under Obama's watch?  The most socialist President since FDR (possibly more so).  Under the much freer market under Trump, we've virtually eliminated unemployment.  Whenever it is less than 4%, it is insanely good.  That 4% number represents people who are only temporarily out of work

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This is completely meaningless.

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Yup.  This is a problem.  And we need to address it.  So, good on you.  One out of twelve.

Trump is actually trying to fix this.  But there is a LOT of effort to stop him.  We are the most in debt because of two things.

1) We GIVE more money to other nations than any four or five other nations combined.
2) We have more welfare than any other nation on earth.

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Misleading.  All this does is compare using exchange rates.

Using real purchase price parity, as well as cost of living indices and taxation, etc.  We're somewhere in the top three or four.

Quote

This is becoming less and less important -- especially in the US.  Tertiary education is largely a liberal propaganda machine nowadays.  What students get from college today is very often useless in actual economic terms.  So, a LOT of US would be students are opting to go different routes.

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This index is clearly "false criteria".  The US is 50th in contributions to science and technology?  Are you kidding me?  Peace and security 101st?  Really?  It was the US victory in WWII that created this "Pax USA" (if I can coin a term).  And you think the world would be more peaceful without the USA in it?

Take a look at what I wrote about national debt above, and try to tell me that we don't do more for the "good of mankind".

Take a look at these:

https://interestingengineering.com/8-inventions-of-20th-century-that-changed-the-world

Most of the most significant advancements in scientific discovery that have had a direct, meaningful, and lasting impact on the world, came from the US.  For those few that started elsewhere, the US made it available for everyone and spread that "good thing" to the world.

Example: The automobile was being developed in other parts of the world.  And there is still historical debate as to who got the first working model.  But Ford's creation of the assembly line was the reason cars are now ubiquitous.

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Meaningless.  Prior to liberals getting a hold of the US healthcare system (in the 70s and 80s) we had the best healthcare system in the world.  Not INSURANCE, but CARE.  Not everyone who received care was insured.  But they received care.  Remember that no system will care for 100%.  But we did pretty darn good until liberal policies forced more government intervention to fix a system that wasn't broken.

But for some reason, you'd rather have more insurance and less care.  The best measure is preventable deaths.  For this, I have to combine it with the following index item.

Quote

This can be considered good or bad.  It depends on why. For the US, the reason we have a slightly lower life expectancy than the rest of the world is our diet.  We have so much food here and so much variety that we're a country of obese people.  That's going to lower the life-expectancy numbers.

Our life expectancy is NOT a result of poor healthcare or because of microbial disease, or sanitation, etc.

When the US ranks very poorly on the "preventable deaths index" we need to keep in mind that the three greatest contributors to this number are: Cancer, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease.  Our crappy diet and abundance of desk jobs is making us unhealthy to the point that healthcare isn't really going to help.  And that is the greatest contributor to those statistics.

Cancer is something different.  It is most often not related to diet and lifestyle.  So here, we rank pretty well.

https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/dcpc/research/articles/concord-2.htm

Very high in all five categories, and highest in three of the five.  THANKS TO THE US HEALTHCARE SYSTEM!!!

SUMMARY:

1) Most of the indices are things liberals make as a talking point, but they're really meaningless in the long term.
2) Several items were because of liberal policies (primarily Obama) taking us down on the indices.  So, like most liberals, they invent a problem and then propose even worse policies as a solution, which then create the problem that never (or barely) existed in the first place.

Edited by Mores

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2 hours ago, mordorbund said:

@Serviteur du seigneur since you've moved on to nationalized insurance can I take that as tacit acknowledgement that my points are valid and you need to reconsider your population control ideas?

Yeah. You were reasonable, and made actually a interesting point. But do you think that our innovations are going to keep on forever ? Can we just keep going on and on filling the planet ? Till where is this going to be safe ?

Science says we should be careful, and they re usually right.

1 hour ago, Mores said:

 I'm wondering if you actually know what these things are.  Some of them don't support your position or have anything to do with your position

I'm defending other stuff here, nothing to do with child on this one. It was unfair the joking affirmation that the sister used to treat canada.

 

1 hour ago, Mores said:

We WERE in the elite group (better than 80%) prior to Obamacare.  We dropped every single year of the Obama administration (except 2016).  We've been rising very slowly since Trump took office.  And in 2016 we were back above the 80% line.  We slipped just a bit since then because of many other societal issues (such as LGBT activism suing businesses for people just wanting to run a business).

But you aint in the list now pal. Thats what matters.

 

1 hour ago, Mores said:

You're joking right?  Do you not realize that the longest term of unemployment occurred under Obama's watch?  The most socialist President since FDR (possibly more so).  Under the much freer market under Trump, we've virtually eliminated unemployment.  Whenever it is less than 4%, it is insanely good.  That 4% number represents people who are only temporarily out of work

Joking what ? The sister compared canada to the US, and the country has a much more lower unemployment rate. This is just the fact

 

1 hour ago, Mores said:

This is completely meaningless

 You are not God dude, make your point. Why is it meaningless ? Because you say so ?

 

1 hour ago, Mores said:

1) We GIVE more money to other nations than any four or five other nations combined.
2) We have more welfare than any other nation on earth.

You dont give money. No one does. All your country do, is just to buy support.

And as far as i know, your country barely has any government support, not even for the sick. How is it that you have a welfare ?

1 hour ago, Mores said:

Using real purchase price parity, as well as cost of living indices and taxation, etc.  We're somewhere in the top three or four.

Oh yeah. How could they forget that the US people has some cheaper stuff ? therefore making them wealthier.

Geez, you lost the first place because of this mistake. Shame on them.

 

2 hours ago, Mores said:

This is becoming less and less important -- especially in the US.  Tertiary education is largely a liberal propaganda machine nowadays.  What students get from college today is very often useless in actual economic terms.  So, a LOT of US would be students are opting to go different routes.

Where do you think all of the contribution that your country gives and is still giving to the world came from ?

How do you form doctors, lawyers, engineers ? 

Becoming an unqualified people will make your nation rise in the unemployment rate. Sad, because if this happens, lots will lose their jobs to mexicans and soon will start offering awesome conditions for canadians to work on US because of the lack of local qualified workforce.

 

2 hours ago, Mores said:

This index is clearly "false criteria".  The US is 50th in contributions to science and technology?  Are you kidding me?  Peace and security 101st?  Really?  It was the US victory in WWII that created this "Pax USA" (if I can coin a term).  And you think the world would be more peaceful without the USA in it?

Take a look at what I wrote about national debt above, and try to tell me that we don't do more for the "good of mankind".

Take a look at these:

https://interestingengineering.com/8-inventions-of-20th-century-that-changed-the-world

Most of the most significant advancements in scientific discovery that have had a direct, meaningful, and lasting impact on the world, came from the US.  For those few that started elsewhere, the US made it available for everyone and spread that "good thing" to the world.

Example: The automobile was being developed in other parts of the world.  And there is still historical debate as to who got the first working model.  But Ford's creation of the assembly line was the reason cars are now ubiquitous.

Well, Einstein was german. And... Isaac Newton was british, galileo galilei was from italy, leonardo da vinci was from italy, johannes kepler was german...

 

And dude, americans are always involved in war, they re always bombing somewhere ALWAYS. I love the US, they are a good nation, but some of them there just loves war. They love to talk about it, they love to watch movies about it, they love games about it. Again, not all of them.

 

2 hours ago, Mores said:

Meaningless.  Prior to liberals getting a hold of the US healthcare system (in the 70s and 80swe had the best healthcare system in the world.  Not INSURANCE, but CARE.  Not everyone who received care was insured.  But they received care.  Remember that no system will care for 100%.  But we did pretty darn good until liberal policies forced more government intervention to fix a system that wasn't broken.

But for some reason, you'd rather have more insurance and less care.  The best measure is preventable deaths.  For this, I have to combine it with the following index item.

I dont even know how you call it a healthcare system. Yeah you do have hospitals but only for the rich who can pay. If your not, they ll just leave you to die, it's damn creepy.

 

2 hours ago, Mores said:

This can be considered good or bad.  It depends on why. For the US, the reason we have a slightly lower life expectancy than the rest of the world is our diet.  We have so much food here and so much variety that we're a country of obese people.  That's going to lower the life-expectancy numbers.

Our life expectancy is NOT a result of poor healthcare or because of microbial disease, or sanitation, etc.

When the US ranks very poorly on the "preventable deaths index" we need to keep in mind that the three greatest contributors to this number are: Cancer, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease.  Our crappy diet and abundance of desk jobs is making us unhealthy to the point that healthcare isn't really going to help.  And that is the greatest contributor to those statistics.

Cancer is something different.  It is most often not related to diet and lifestyle.  So here, we rank pretty well.

https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/dcpc/research/articles/concord-2.htm

Very high in all five categories, and highest in three of the five.  THANKS TO THE US HEALTHCARE SYSTEM!!!

This can't be considered good or bad dude. If you have low expectancy rate that's bad. There are no sense in saying that it means thats good. And your argument that your people dont live long because you have to much food is laughable, and you know that deep inside of you. Do you think the europeans don't have good food ? With their wide diverse cooking formed by lots of countries ?

 

 

IN SUMMARY:

Your country is a great one, indeed. But some of you are pathologically patriotic, in so much that you just come with lots of created arguments that dont make the minimum sense. Saying that " my people dont live long because we have to much food" was, i'm sorry but, pathetical and weird. Thats all folks.

 

Take care of your mind and open it , you re good but there's much better out there, which includes your northern neighbors.

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59 minutes ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Yeah. You were reasonable, and made actually a interesting point. But do you think that our innovations are going to keep on forever ? Can we just keep going on and on filling the planet ? Till where is this going to be safe ?

That's the beauty of procreation: It's only a next-generation problem. I don't have to worry about whether or not the earth can sustain 5 generations of growth, or even your "forever" growth. I only need to be concerned whether or not the earth can sustain one more generation. And @anatess2 has already posted a video that says, yes, the earth can sustain the next generation of growth. Add to that the fact that Wisconsin farmers are paid by the government to dump their dairy and plow produce back into the ground, and I'm confident that there's enough in the US to sustain another generation. All this lends strength to the Lord's witness that "there is enough and to spare" and that the global problem are one of distribution, commanding that "man shall take of the abundance which I have made, and impart ... his portion".

1 hour ago, Serviteur du seigneur said:

Science says we should be careful, and they re usually right.

<shrug> science raises a warning, engineers find a solution. We should be grateful for those that raise the awareness so the solutions can be found before there's a crisis, but let's not pretend that the doomseers have the only solution.

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4 hours ago, Mores said:

You're joking right?  Do you not realize that the longest term of unemployment occurred under Obama's watch?

Here are the employment statistics:

https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm

Unemployment.thumb.JPG.250e844ed1916de674daa265f795a90e.JPG

Here is the same chart, but with lines drawn between the start and ends of each presidency.  

Unemployment.thumb.JPG.d5dabec9d65b52e3f9f400c0be89ef7a.JPG

Quote

Trump is actually trying to fix this.  But there is a LOT of effort to stop him.  We are the most in debt because of two things.

1) We GIVE more money to other nations than any four or five other nations combined.
2) We have more welfare than any other nation on earth.

This is false.   Those are not the reasons for most of the debt.  The two biggest factors are military spending and medicare/medicaid/Social Security.  

Quote

Take a look at these:

https://interestingengineering.com/8-inventions-of-20th-century-that-changed-the-world

Most of the most significant advancements in scientific discovery that have had a direct, meaningful, and lasting impact on the world, came from the US.  For those few that started elsewhere, the US made it available for everyone and spread that "good thing" to the world.

According to the source above, only three of those came out of the US (the airplane, nuclear power, and the internet).   The radio was also partially invented by one US scientist.   But, yes, a lot of inventions come out of the US.

Quote

Our life expectancy is NOT a result of poor healthcare or because of microbial disease, or sanitation, etc.

This is true, but infant mortality can't be eplained away by diet.

Quote

Cancer is something different.  It is most often not related to diet and lifestyle.  So here, we rank pretty well.

https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/dcpc/research/articles/concord-2.htm

So you are saying that the other healthcare systems are better that score higher than us?

Edited by Scott
added chart

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