The average American 401(k) balance by age

[anatess2]

10 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

Don't know about the last one, but the first and second sound almost like those who are Begpacking.  BegPackers aren't really seen in the best light by some (many).  Of course, they might not be that, and even if they are the Lord loves all his children...but not a big fan of Begpackers myself.

They tend to write travel blogs and other things, but when you say he's teaching Yoga classes and English in Thailand...alarm bells kind of went off in my head. 

Of course they're not that!  They earn money while they're travelling - not beg for money - that's silly.  If you must use a label for them, the term Vagabonder is more apt.  Vagabonding is a book written by a guy living this lifestyle. 

Anyway, my friend on the 1st example is a member of the Vagabonding community and that's how he found his jobs.  That Vagabonding book author leads a Vagabonding Community that provides a job-matching service.  And yes, Westerners teaching English and Yoga/Zumba are popular in Asia.  Ballroom and Hiphop is also popular.  But my friend is like a pro at it now and knows where to look for jobs himself without the help of the Vabagonding group.  There are other groups that match temporary foreign residents with want ads - some good, some bad.

My friend on the 2nd example did not quit his contract programmer job to travel.  We have the same job - I'm also a contract programmer which is why I can travel between the US and the Philippines without needing to quit my job working for a German company.

These days, most "vagabonders" make money out of their computers - either from ad revenue as independent creators on places like YouTube or Bitchute or running their Amazon FBAs, etc.  There's this Canadian guy who is my favorite of the YouTubers currently living in the Philippines - he's been living in the Philippines for over 5 years now living only off his ad revenue from his YouTube Channel - he has over 500K subscribers averaging 50K views on each video and most of his viewership is Filipinos so he doesn't get as much revenue as those getting American viewers but what he makes is enough to live off of in the Philippines.  There are several travelers who teach their native language online.  It's like the Uber version of Rosetta Stone - matching actual native language instructors with students.  The internet just made the vagabonding life choice a whole lot easier which is why a lot of people are doing it now.

[JohnsonJones]

16 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Of course they're not that!  They earn money while they're travelling - not beg for money - that's silly.  If you must use a label for them, the term Vagabonder is more apt.  Vagabonding is a book written by a guy living this lifestyle. 

Anyway, my friend on the 1st example is a member of the Vagabonding community and that's how he found his jobs.  That Vagabonding book author leads a Vagabonding Community that provides a job-matching service.  And yes, Westerners teaching English and Yoga/Zumba are popular in Asia.  Ballroom and Hiphop is also popular.  But my friend is like a pro at it now and knows where to look for jobs himself without the help of the Vabagonding group.  There are other groups that match temporary foreign residents with want ads - some good, some bad.

My friend on the 2nd example did not quit his contract programmer job to travel.  We have the same job - I'm also a contract programmer which is why I can travel between the US and the Philippines without needing to quit my job working for a German company.

These days, most "vagabonders" make money out of their computers - either from ad revenue as independent creators on places like YouTube or Bitchute or running their Amazon FBAs, etc.  There's this Canadian guy who is my favorite of the YouTubers currently living in the Philippines - he's been living in the Philippines for over 5 years now living only off his ad revenue from his YouTube Channel - he has over 500K subscribers averaging 50K views on each video and most of his viewership is Filipinos so he doesn't get as much revenue as those getting American viewers but what he makes is enough to live off of in the Philippines.  There are several travelers who teach their native language online.  It's like the Uber version of Rosetta Stone - matching actual native language instructors with students.  The internet just made the vagabonding life choice a whole lot easier which is why a lot of people are doing it now.

Begpackers are famous for claiming they run "travel-blogs" and have youtube channels and such.  They play music in the streets or try to sell very useless items no one wants.  In fact, it's very similar to the beggars who do the same thing in New York City or Baltimore or other major cities in the US who are part of the beggar/street handler community in America.  There are many different ways to beg for money, it's not necessarily straight up writing a sign and asking for it.  Many Begpackers also Busk and others try to sell postcards and other items.  Blogging and Youtube are very popular among the Begpacking community.  With a Million views to make $1000 dollars, it takes a LOT of views to make money on Youtube.  Most Youtube channels don't make anywhere close to what some may imagine.  Your friend would probably be getting around $50 - $150 per video if they are getting ~50K views.

Obviously Vagabonds normally want to be seen more as "backpackers" or travelling the world while "working" but many of them are trying to live off the locals rather than fund their own expeditions of tourism and travels.  Vagabonding in many cases are basically begpackers that are trying to say they aren't begpacking. 

You are right, teaching English IS popular, but it is NOT a travel opportunity like you made your friends sound like they are doing.  Teaching English is normally done via contract through a specific group or institution.  You are normally set in the area where you will be teaching.  You can travel in free time, but it is a job where you are basically set where you are teaching.  Just like a Teacher in other parts of the world, you don't just pick up and move and travel.  It's a full time job (many with more hours than teachers work in the US) and the location is set.  It lasts normally a year or more (depending on the contract) and your ability to stay in the Country many times is connected to the job and that contract.  Those who say they "teach English" but travel all around and aren't stuck in that area or have their ability to stay in the country based on their employment...they aren't teaching English.  They are holding small classes which no one wants to really go to but some humor them occasionally and give them money to live off of.

Your second friend sound like someone who is probably a legit traveler or individual.  The firsts might not be Begpackers, but what you wrote makes them sound as if they are part of that community (Saying one is Vagabonding is not necessarily mean that they are not Begpackers, just that they want to try to elevate them out of that group rather than be seen with the rest of the world travelers who bring money to a local economy rather than try to take money out of it or use the money within that community from that community).

I'm not as against Begpackers as many are, but I'm not amused at the different terms they use to try to argue that they aren't actually Begpacking or try to disguise how they are going about it.  If they are open with it, who they are, and what they are doing, that's what they've chosen in life and how they want to do things.  I'm okay as long as they don't try any mischief around me.

Hiding it or claiming they aren't what they are, those types sometimes can be big trouble to be around.  Your friends may not be Begpackers, but your descriptions seems to make it seem like they are part of that community (though they'd be those who claim to be "working" their way through their "travels" aka....tourism without actually paying to be tourists).

[anatess2]

7 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

Begpackers are famous for claiming they run "travel-blogs" and have youtube channels and such.  They play music in the streets or try to sell very useless items no one wants.  In fact, it's very similar to the beggars who do the same thing in New York City or Baltimore or other major cities in the US who are part of the beggar/street handler community in America.  There are many different ways to beg for money, it's not necessarily straight up writing a sign and asking for it.  Many Begpackers also Busk and others try to sell postcards and other items.  Blogging and Youtube are very popular among the Begpacking community.  With a Million views to make $1000 dollars, it takes a LOT of views to make money on Youtube.  Most Youtube channels don't make anywhere close to what some may imagine.  Your friend would probably be getting around $50 - $150 per video if they are getting ~50K views.

Dude.... where have you been the past 10 years?  MOST YouTube Channels don't make money because they're not designed to make money.  Those serious ones that DO make money are designed to make money.  They USE YouTube (and other Social Media) as a business strategy.  Also, the point of my posts have been to illustrate that you don't need a lot of money to enjoy life.

In any case, calling hardworking people who travel BegPackers is like calling Trump Supporters White Supremacists.  It's nothing but taking an entire group and lumping them all to fit your narrative.  What's worse is YOU - who don't know these people - insist on insulting them to ME - a personal friend of these people.  Do you have any situational awareness at all?  If so, then now is the perfect time to engage it.

 

7 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

(though they'd be those who claim to be "working" their way through their "travels" aka....tourism without actually paying to be tourists).

REALLY?  That is hilarious.  In the USA you need a working visa to work.  It's not an easy visa to get.  This is not true for most other countries.  I'm Filipino.  I would know.  The #1 economic stimulant in the Philippines is OFF-SHORE WORK.

[JohnsonJones]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

Dude.... where have you been the past 10 years?  MOST YouTube Channels don't make money because they're not designed to make money.  Those serious ones that DO make money are designed to make money.  They USE YouTube (and other Social Media) as a business strategy.  Also, the point of my posts have been to illustrate that you don't need a lot of money to enjoy life.

In any case, calling hardworking people who travel BegPackers is like calling Trump Supporters White Supremacists.  It's nothing but taking an entire group and lumping them all to fit your narrative.  What's worse is YOU - who don't know these people - insist on insulting them to ME - a personal friend of these people.  Do you have any situational awareness at all?  If so, then now is the perfect time to engage it.

 

REALLY?  That is hilarious.  In the USA you need a working visa to work.  It's not an easy visa to get.  This is not true for most other countries.  I'm Filipino.  I would know.  The #1 economic stimulant in the Philippines is OFF-SHORE WORK.

I just know a LOT of those who say they are Vagabonding are actually considered Begpacking.  It's not that they necessarily are, but the way you described them making money fits that group.  MANY of them do travel blogs and videos, so saying that's one of the way they make money while in a foreign nation, along with them being transient English teachers and various other cues you gave make it sound a LOT like they are.  I am familiar with these types of people.

Many Begpackers would feel insulted that you do not consider them hardworking as they consider themselves VERY hardworking. 

However, I don't mean to insult your friends or Begpackers, but there is a difference between tourist who bring MONEY INTO the economy vs. travelers/tourist who try to rely on that economy to live off of rather than their own.  There is also a difference between tourist and workers.  A tourist is what you make it sound they are, travelers in foreign nations. 

They can be very good people and nice as well, but if they aren't the ones bringing in the money for their travels from sources of their home nation and are not employees under contract to work for companies...and classify themselves as travelers or tourist that are going through the nation but who need to get money from that local economy to fund their travels...well...that's how you made your friends sound like what they are doing.

You said originally

Quote

For those who do love foreign vacations... You don't need to wait until you retire to live your life travelling from one foreign land to another.  And it doesn't take a lot of money to do so either.  Yes, you can do this with children too.  A friend of mine is even living this life right now.  He's been doing it for 5 years and he's in his early 30's now.

That's not the way to travel on foreign vacations.  Every Begpacker I've known of loves foreign vacations/travelling from one foreign land to another, and do not have a lot of money to do so.  IN fact, they have so little money that they try to find ways to get money from the locals whether it is begging, busking (playing musical instruments, singing, acting, whatever, with a hand out to ask for money for doing so), selling postcards or little trinkets (such as cheap jewelry, or other things they put together from items they find or are given cheap), or trying to say they teach a skill to anyone they meet on the street or otherwise, or even maybe a service (like wash your car or windows) they still are considered in that Begpacking group.  They are part of the groups you can find in most major cities, though they are not normally considered Begpacking in the US, they are simply known as street handlers, beggars, etc. in New York, Washington DC, or other places in the US. 

Of course the difference is that those in the US doing these things are staying in the same city (and you can find natives doing similar things in other major cities of the world) while the Begpackers are specifically trying to travel through those nations (normally with a Backpack or other carrying item) as a tourist would, but with a LOT LESS money.

Saying they are bloggers doesn't help the case as that is ALSO one of the popular items they seem to do these days.  Blogging and video logs.  You tube is popular.  It is extremely popular among the Begpacking community these days.

Your description of what they do sounds like what I said.  They may not be, but your description seems to match up with those I've known about elsewhere. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't hold it against them.  However, I would NOT suggest to others to try to travel in that fashion.  I think if one does not have to travel in that fashion, it would be best to avoid it.  That's just my personal take on travelling though.

Edited September 7, 2019 by JohnsonJones

[anatess2]

58 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

I just know a LOT of those who say they are Vagabonding are actually considered Begpacking.  It's not that they necessarily are, but the way you described them making money fits that group.  MANY of them do travel blogs and videos, so saying that's one of the way they make money while in a foreign nation, along with them being transient English teachers and various other cues you gave make it sound a LOT like they are.  I am familiar with these types of people.

Many Begpackers would feel insulted that you do not consider them hardworking as they consider themselves VERY hardworking. 

However, I don't mean to insult your friends or Begpackers, but there is a difference between tourist who bring MONEY INTO the economy vs. travelers/tourist who try to rely on that economy to live off of rather than their own.  There is also a difference between tourist and workers.  A tourist is what you make it sound they are, travelers in foreign nations. 

They can be very good people and nice as well, but if they aren't the ones bringing in the money for their travels from sources of their home nation and are not employees under contract to work for companies...and classify themselves as travelers or tourist that are going through the nation but who need to get money from that local economy to fund their travels...well...that's how you made your friends sound like what they are doing.

You said originally

That's not the way to travel on foreign vacations.  Every Begpacker I've known of loves foreign vacations/travelling from one foreign land to another, and do not have a lot of money to do so.  IN fact, they have so little money that they try to find ways to get money from the locals whether it is begging, busking (playing musical instruments, singing, acting, whatever, with a hand out to ask for money for doing so), selling postcards or little trinkets (such as cheap jewelry, or other things they put together from items they find or are given cheap), or trying to say they teach a skill to anyone they meet on the street or otherwise, or even maybe a service (like wash your car or windows) they still are considered in that Begpacking group.  They are part of the groups you can find in most major cities, though they are not normally considered Begpacking in the US, they are simply known as street handlers, beggars, etc. in New York, Washington DC, or other places in the US. 

Of course the difference is that those in the US doing these things are staying in the same city (and you can find natives doing similar things in other major cities of the world) while the Begpackers are specifically trying to travel through those nations (normally with a Backpack or other carrying item) as a tourist would, but with a LOT LESS money.

Saying they are bloggers doesn't help the case as that is ALSO one of the popular items they seem to do these days.  Blogging and video logs.  You tube is popular.  It is extremely popular among the Begpacking community these days.

Your description of what they do sounds like what I said.  They may not be, but your description seems to match up with those I've known about elsewhere. 

Don't get me wrong, I don't hold it against them.  However, I would NOT suggest to others to try to travel in that fashion.  I think if one does not have to travel in that fashion, it would be best to avoid it.  That's just my personal take on travelling though.

You can't get off that easy, dude.  You insulted a friend of mine.  You can't weasel your way out of that by saying, "that's just my personal take on it".

And saying bloggers and vloggers are beggars just shows your ignorance on the topic.  And calling street performers as beggars also shows ignorance.  They tried that in the oldest street in the oldest city in the USA - St. George Street, St. Augustine, Florida.  The city council banned pandhandlers and included street performers in the definition.  St. George Street lost so many tourists they had to revise the ban.

And just fyi... begpacking is not an official term.  Vagabonding is - it's the name of a copyrighted book and the community applying the principles in the book.  Calling Vagabonders begpackers is also showing ignorance on the topic.

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by anatess2

[JohnsonJones]

18 hours ago, anatess2 said:

You can't get off that easy, dude.  You insulted a friend of mine.  You can't weasel your way out of that by saying, "that's just my personal take on it".

And saying bloggers and vloggers are beggars just shows your ignorance on the topic.  And calling street performers as beggars also shows ignorance.  They tried that in the oldest street in the oldest city in the USA - St. George Street, St. Augustine, Florida.  The city council banned pandhandlers and included street performers in the definition.  St. George Street lost so many tourists they had to revise the ban.

And just fyi... begpacking is not an official term.  Vagabonding is - it's the name of a copyrighted book and the community applying the principles in the book.  Calling Vagabonders begpackers is also showing ignorance on the topic.

 

If you want to call Begpackers (and your right, it's not something official, many Begpackers do NOT want to go by that term, which is why they call themselves...) Vagabonds...well...sure.

Though there are several different types that go Vagabonding from what I see, those who are respectful and bring their own money (the idea is to travel on low funds, not to specifically try to earn money off the locals), those who already have work or are under contracts (for example welders can move from construction site to construction site, but are expected to work for the time necessary, or even extras who act in films in India or Asia who are European in looks, or those that work freelance but earn a normal wage from the US or the West without the local economy supporting them, or those that can work anywhere they want but communicate with the main hub over the internet or from home such as some in computer design, support and other jobs) and those who are called Begpackers by many others (those who don't bring enough to fund their travels). 

Your description of your Vagabonding friends sounds like the latter.

Still, you act as if it's a bad thing.  Not necessarily, I just don't suggest anyone to travel in that manner...ESPECIALLY if they have kids. 

 

PS: I just want you to know I don't have anything against those who live that type of lifestyle.  In fact, some of the best people in this world are those who have learned that they do not need a ton of money or those who don't have a ton of money that they spend.  Many tend to be far more humble than those who spend lots of money or have lots of riches.  I probably phrased my statement or post in the wrong way when I originally responded.  To be more clear, I'm not a big fan of trying to travel in that fashion.  It's each traveler's choice, but I personally don't feel it's the best way to travel (and as I've tried to be clear, would NOT suggest people to travel in that manner).  However, that isn't reflective on the individual.

If they are living that type of lifestyle though, I normally want them to be frank and upfront with me about it rather than trying to say they do this or that or the other.  Just tell me straight up rather than saying it's one thing rather than the other.

It is true that many are not seen in the best light around the world (even in the US or Canada, those who backpack their way across it meet various reactions from those that are fascinated by it to those who are exactly the opposite, regardless of how they are funding their trip).  Those who travel a lot can also meet various reactions from others anywhere they go in the world.  However, there are some of the most humble people traveling in that manner, and some that are rather arrogant.  Many of the humble ones are great people, even if I wouldn't try to travel in that same way.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by JohnsonJones

[anatess2]

On 9/7/2019 at 1:43 PM, JohnsonJones said:

If you want to call Begpackers (and your right, it's not something official, many Begpackers do NOT want to go by that term, which is why they call themselves...) Vagabonds...well...sure.

Though there are several different types that go Vagabonding from what I see, those who are respectful and bring their own money (the idea is to travel on low funds, not to specifically try to earn money off the locals), those who already have work or are under contracts (for example welders can move from construction site to construction site, but are expected to work for the time necessary, or even extras who act in films in India or Asia who are European in looks, or those that work freelance but earn a normal wage from the US or the West without the local economy supporting them, or those that can work anywhere they want but communicate with the main hub over the internet or from home such as some in computer design, support and other jobs) and those who are called Begpackers by many others (those who don't bring enough to fund their travels). 

Your description of your Vagabonding friends sounds like the latter.

Still, you act as if it's a bad thing.  Not necessarily, I just don't suggest anyone to travel in that manner...ESPECIALLY if they have kids. 

 

PS: I just want you to know I don't have anything against those who live that type of lifestyle.  In fact, some of the best people in this world are those who have learned that they do not need a ton of money or those who don't have a ton of money that they spend.  Many tend to be far more humble than those who spend lots of money or have lots of riches.  I probably phrased my statement or post in the wrong way when I originally responded.  To be more clear, I'm not a big fan of trying to travel in that fashion.  It's each traveler's choice, but I personally don't feel it's the best way to travel (and as I've tried to be clear, would NOT suggest people to travel in that manner).  However, that isn't reflective on the individual.

If they are living that type of lifestyle though, I normally want them to be frank and upfront with me about it rather than trying to say they do this or that or the other.  Just tell me straight up rather than saying it's one thing rather than the other.

It is true that many are not seen in the best light around the world (even in the US or Canada, those who backpack their way across it meet various reactions from those that are fascinated by it to those who are exactly the opposite, regardless of how they are funding their trip).  Those who travel a lot can also meet various reactions from others anywhere they go in the world.  However, there are some of the most humble people traveling in that manner, and some that are rather arrogant.  Many of the humble ones are great people, even if I wouldn't try to travel in that same way.

 

 

I was watching the Democrat Debates yesterday and can't help but notice how Biden just kept digging a bigger hole for himself.  Reminded me of you.  You called my friend a Begpacker.  And you just kept on digging the hole bigger and bigger.

Continue on with that...

[Guest Scott]

On 9/5/2019 at 11:51 AM, anatess2 said:

For those who do love foreign vacations... You don't need to wait until you retire to live your life travelling from one foreign land to another.  And it doesn't take a lot of money to do so either

Yes, this is true, at least if you go to less expensive countries.

My wife and I used to work for the same company.   We would get the winters off.   It was actually cheaper for us to travel than it was to stay home.    We used to get one of those round the world tickets for $1200 and choose the cheap destinations.  Once the airfare was paid though, we would travel cheaply.   We would stop in places like Thailand, India, Nepal, etc.   

We were spending $300 a month in Nepal and weren't lacking for anything.    That covered all of our food, teahouses, guesthouses, hotels, busses, etc.  India was the same way cost wise, though I don't like the big cities there at all.   The countryside was wonderful.  Thailand was a little more expensive, but still very cheap.

In Nepal, there aren't that many roads outside the few major cities, and you must walk from town to town or village to village.    Often times the hotel and guesthouse prices are posted on a sign at the entrance of town.   I remember we walked to one town arriving in the early afternoon so we decided to walk to the next town and stay there since it was still early.   The first thing I noticed was that all of the guesthouse prices were double than that in the previous town!   While at first price gouging comes to mind, when you calculate it out, we were really only paying 80 cents a night instead of 40 cents a night.   Even paying double than that of the previous town was still pretty cheap.

Much of South and Central America is also cheap (but not so much in places like Argentina, Chile, Brazil and others), but not as cheap as places like Nepal, India, and Southeast Asia.   My son and I were paying $5 a night for our bed and breakfast in Peru (Lima and Cuzco are more expensive in comparison).   The $5 included breakfast and dinner as well.  

[anatess2]

On 9/14/2019 at 1:58 PM, Scott said:

Yes, this is true, at least if you go to less expensive countries.

My wife and I used to work for the same company.   We would get the winters off.   It was actually cheaper for us to travel than it was to stay home.    We used to get one of those round the world tickets for $1200 and choose the cheap destinations.  Once the airfare was paid though, we would travel cheaply.   We would stop in places like Thailand, India, Nepal, etc.   

We were spending $300 a month in Nepal and weren't lacking for anything.    That covered all of our food, teahouses, guesthouses, hotels, busses, etc.  India was the same way cost wise, though I don't like the big cities there at all.   The countryside was wonderful.  Thailand was a little more expensive, but still very cheap.

In Nepal, there aren't that many roads outside the few major cities, and you must walk from town to town or village to village.    Often times the hotel and guesthouse prices are posted on a sign at the entrance of town.   I remember we walked to one town arriving in the early afternoon so we decided to walk to the next town and stay there since it was still early.   The first thing I noticed was that all of the guesthouse prices were double than that in the previous town!   While at first price gouging comes to mind, when you calculate it out, we were really only paying 80 cents a night instead of 40 cents a night.   Even paying double than that of the previous town was still pretty cheap.

Much of South and Central America is also cheap (but not so much in places like Argentina, Chile, Brazil and others), but not as cheap as places like Nepal, India, and Southeast Asia.   My son and I were paying $5 a night for our bed and breakfast in Peru (Lima and Cuzco are more expensive in comparison).   The $5 included breakfast and dinner as well.  

Most people who "vacation travel" spend a lot of money because they go on the tourist routes with the tourist conveniences.  This is good for those who just want to see sights and want to relegate most, if not all, decision-making to a guide - which is what most people think about when they think "travel". 

But there's also a disadvantage to that - first of all is the price, of course.  Tourist routes are good for short vacations but will be unaffordable real quick on long vacations.  But another big thing is you lose a lot of the culture experience.  When I travel, I live with the locals (well, I stay with family... and you know how it is with Filipinos - you must be Filipino if, you have family you can't place on the family tree) and they tell me what are good and safe places to check out.  It's a whole different experience than the tourist route.  I'm not very keen on the type of traveling where you go to the Eiffel Tower and take a picture.  I'm more of the, I lived in this French villa in Nowhere, France for 3 months.  Of course, the big disadvantage to this is the need for a lot of research and the safety factor especially when you hit certain places in Asia.

Edited September 16, 2019 by anatess2