mtgpugs Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 In a recent interview Pres Ballard said “Are we there yet?” (referring to the new emphasis of using the proper name of church). “No. Is there a lot more work to do? Yes. And we’re taking those steps. And I think as time rolls out, and people see the other steps that we’re working on, they’re going to be very, very pleased. Certainly the membership the church will be." What do you think could be big future steps that haven't been done yet? Besides the monumental task of changing the logos on all Mormon Messages videos from the past and finishing the names change of social media and website references (like Mormon Channel). Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted August 21, 2019 Report Share Posted August 21, 2019 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_university_and_college_name_changes_in_the_United_States The only thing I can think of that will make a big impact is the Name of the University And BYU could also use a good cleaning. Not sure Brigham Young or the Lord would appreciate the creep of the Liberal agenda. Elder Bednar already assisted with the transition of Ricks College to BYU-Idaho and going from a 2 year to a 4 year college as well as dropping the football program... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priesthoodpower Posted August 24, 2019 Report Share Posted August 24, 2019 On 8/20/2019 at 4:25 PM, mtgpugs said: In a recent interview Pres Ballard said “Are we there yet?” (referring to the new emphasis of using the proper name of church). “No. Is there a lot more work to do? Yes. And we’re taking those steps. And I think as time rolls out, and people see the other steps that we’re working on, they’re going to be very, very pleased. Certainly the membership the church will be." I understand this statement to mean that the apostles are working to create a culture of worship that is inclusive rather then exclusive in nature. There is a place for everyone in Christs church. Dropping the term mormon is a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted August 24, 2019 Report Share Posted August 24, 2019 On 8/21/2019 at 4:38 AM, mikbone said: creep Le mot juste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted August 24, 2019 Report Share Posted August 24, 2019 1 hour ago, priesthoodpower said: There is a place for everyone who makes and keeps divine covenants under restored Priesthood authority in Christs church. Ftfy. unixknight, Grunt and person0 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Vort said: Le mot juste. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_(deformation) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 2 hours ago, mikbone said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_(deformation) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creepiness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikbone Posted August 25, 2019 Report Share Posted August 25, 2019 12 hours ago, Vort said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creepiness dprh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priesthoodpower Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 (edited) On 8/24/2019 at 1:03 PM, Vort said: There is a place for everyone who makes and keeps divine covenants under restored Priesthood authority in Christs church. Is that what Jesus told you? Id hate to break it to you but every piece of literature and information about God/Jesus in this world is second/third/fourth hand information. Your truth is not my truth and vice versa the holy ghost doesn't speak to you the same way he speaks to me. Until Jesus himself comes out with a Youtube Channell NO ONE knows his full will/intent/Love. Its foolish for one human to tell another human that you cant join Christs church because of (fill in the blank). The Gospel gives us an idea of the path to eternal salvation but the finer details are between the individual and God. Covenants were made to be broken or else repentance is not neccesary but excuse me if you are the only perfect soul on earth that can keep a covenant thus making you the only member of Christs church. Both statements below are true! There is a place for everyone who makes and keeps divine covenants under restored Priesthood authority in Christs church. There is a place for everyone in Christs church. Edited August 26, 2019 by priesthoodpower dprh and person0 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 5 hours ago, priesthoodpower said: Its foolish for one human to tell another human that you cant join Christs church because of (fill in the blank). I don't believe the Prophet is foolish. person0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estradling75 Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 6 hours ago, priesthoodpower said: Its foolish for one human to tell another human that you cant join Christs church because of (fill in the blank). It is foolish to deny the plain word of God in the scriptures. He has a whole excommuncation process laid out, in our day and he instructed Alma on a similar process in the Book of Mormon times. God loves everyone... But only those that love God in return (by trying to keep the commandments) are going to make the kingdom. SilentOne 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprh Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 4 hours ago, estradling75 said: It is foolish to deny the plain word of God in the scriptures. He has a whole excommuncation process laid out, in our day and he instructed Alma on a similar process in the Book of Mormon times. God loves everyone... But only those that love God in return (by trying to keep the commandments) are going to make the kingdom. And a process for readmission. There IS a place (or enough room) for everyone in the Church. However, there are also requirements for joining, and for remaining, a member. Realistically speaking, not everyone will meet those standards. But that doesn't mean there isn't a place for them if/when they do. *group hug* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
person0 Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 11 hours ago, priesthoodpower said: Your truth is not my truth and vice versa the holy ghost doesn't speak to you the same way he speaks to me. (emphasis added) I can assure you that the Holy Ghost didn't tell you that people have different truths. Someone I admire taught it well: Quote This true way of life is not a matter of opinion. There are absolute truths and relative truths. The rules of dietetics have changed many times in my lifetime. Many scientific findings have changed from year to year. The scientists taught for decades that the world was once a nebulous, molten mass cast off from the sun, and later many scientists said it once was a whirl of dust which solidified. There are many ideas advanced to the world that have been changed to meet the needs of the truth as it has been discovered. There are relative truths, and there are also absolute truths which are the same yesterday, today, and forever—never changing. These absolute truths are not altered by the opinions of men. As science has expanded our understanding of the physical world, certain accepted ideas of science have had to be abandoned in the interest of truth. Some of these seeming truths were stoutly maintained for centuries. The sincere searching of science often rests only on the threshold of truth, whereas revealed facts give us certain absolute truths as a beginning point so we may come to understand the nature of man and the purpose of his life. We learn about these absolute truths by being taught by the Spirit. These truths are “independent” in their spiritual sphere and are to be discovered spiritually, though they may be confirmed by experience and intellect (see D&C 93:30). The great prophet Jacob said that “the Spirit speaketh the truth. . . . Wherefore, it speaketh of things as they really are, and of things as they really will be.” (Jacob 4:13). God, our Heavenly Father—Elohim—lives. That is an absolute truth. All four billion of the children of men on the earth might be ignorant of him and his attributes and his powers, but he still lives. All the people on the earth might deny him and disbelieve, but he lives in spite of them. They may have their own opinions, but he still lives, and his form, powers, and attributes do not change according to men’s opinions. In short, opinion alone has no power in the matter of an absolute truth. He still lives. And Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Almighty, the Creator, the Master of the only true way of life—the gospel of Jesus Christ. The intellectual may rationalize him out of existence and the unbeliever may scoff, but Christ still lives and guides the destinies of his people. That is an absolute truth; there is no gainsaying. (Absolute Truth - Spencer W. Kimball) Your and my opinions may differ, but that is irrelevant to the truth. I encourage you to read/listen to the whole talk; it is one of my favorites! Grunt, Vort, SilentOne and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted August 26, 2019 Report Share Posted August 26, 2019 16 hours ago, priesthoodpower said: Is that what Jesus told you? Yup. 16 hours ago, priesthoodpower said: Id hate to break it to you but every piece of literature and information about God/Jesus in this world is second/third/fourth hand information. Many of the revelations, especially in the Doctrine and Covenants, speak in the first person. 16 hours ago, priesthoodpower said: Your truth is not my truth and vice versa My friend, this is a lie of the evil one. Truth is truth. There are no relative degrees of absolute truth. Elder Andersen taught this explicitly at the April General Conference: Caught in today’s confusion, it is no wonder that so many consign themselves to the words spoken 2,500 years ago by Protagoras to the young Socrates: “What is true for you,” he said, “is true for you, and what is true for me, is true for me.” Blessed with the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, we humbly declare that there are some things that are completely and absolutely true. These eternal truths are the same for every son and daughter of God. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2019/04/25andersen?lang=eng 16 hours ago, priesthoodpower said: the holy ghost doesn't speak to you the same way he speaks to me. You cannot possibly know that. You cannot know how the Holy Ghost speaks to me, and therefore you cannot know if it's the same as how he speaks to you. 16 hours ago, priesthoodpower said: Until Jesus himself comes out with a Youtube Channell NO ONE knows his full will/intent/Love. This is a strawman argument. No one claimed to know God's or Christ's "full will/intent/Love". 16 hours ago, priesthoodpower said: Its foolish for one human to tell another human that you cant join Christs church because of (fill in the blank). No, it's divine will. We preach repentance, and are explicitly commanded to withhold sacred things from those who are not worthy. We do not baptize people until we have reasonable assurance that they are repenting and sincere. 16 hours ago, priesthoodpower said: The Gospel gives us an idea of the path to eternal salvation but the finer details are between the individual and God. You're in a very dangerous place, PP. You are accepting the ideas of your spiritual enemy who seeks to destroy you. God has made very clear the path to eternal salvation, and it's not some hidden, secret thing. But it's narrow. It does not admit the fornicator, the liar, the hypocrite. You deceive yourself if you insist that it does. 16 hours ago, priesthoodpower said: Covenants were made to be broken or else repentance is not neccesary Not once in scripture or in prophetic utterance is any such doctrine taught. This is false doctrine, period. 16 hours ago, priesthoodpower said: but excuse me if you are the only perfect soul on earth that can keep a covenant thus making you the only member of Christs church. Very well. You are excused. This time. Don't let it happen again. 16 hours ago, priesthoodpower said: Both statements below are true! There is a place for everyone who makes and keeps divine covenants under restored Priesthood authority in Christs church. There is a place for everyone in Christs church. No. Only the top one is true. The bottom statement is demonstrably false, even self-contradictory. Or do you think that there is a place for Satan in Christ's Church? Midwest LDS and person0 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priesthoodpower Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, Grunt said: I don't believe the Prophet is foolish. I was reffering to vorts statement which infers an all-or-nothing scenario, which statement is not word for word doctrine. Should we just have the missionaries make it clear from the first contact. "We want to share the word of God with you today but if you are not ready to make and KEEP covenants then this is not the Church for you. By the way if you plan on breaking covenants its better off that you never stepped into the covenants in the first place. so choose wisely before accepting us in to your home, because you cant just have us in for dinner because we will be prompted to invite u to baptism within the first 30 minutes of meeting you...and count that on the records in heaven that messengers invited you to baptism but you denied us. Heck you dont even have to invite us in anymore because you already answered the door.....sorry but you have a choice to make right now...all or nothing...heaven or hell." Edited August 27, 2019 by priesthoodpower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
priesthoodpower Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Vort said: My friend, this is a lie of the evil one. Truth is truth. There are no relative degrees of absolute truth. Elder Andersen taught this explicitly at the April General... God exists = Truth to many (not a fact) God does not exist = Truth to many (not a fact) This apple is green = Fact, everyone agrees. Fact > Truth Absolute truth is still truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 12 minutes ago, priesthoodpower said: God exists = Truth to many (not a fact) God does not exist = Truth to many (not a fact) This apple is green = Fact, everyone agrees. Fact > Truth Absolute truth is still truth. That example doesn't stand. If it's false, it's false. It doesn't matter if YOU believe it is true. Believing something is true when it isn't doesn't make it true, it just makes you wrong. SilentOne and scottyg 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 hour ago, priesthoodpower said: God exists = Truth to many (not a fact) God does not exist = Truth to many (not a fact) This apple is green = Fact, everyone agrees. Fact > Truth Absolute truth is still truth. You do not know what the word "truth" means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShorty Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 Something I am observing as it relates to the name of the Church. It seems that the effort to eliminate the term Mormon is mostly about removing it when referencing the Church directly. Specific things I have seen: 1) When stating that FairMormon would keep their moniker that includes "Mormon", it was said that it was acceptable for them to use the moniker because they are not officially part of the Church, but something independent. I occasionally hear rumors of other GA's reiterating the idea, but nothing I can reference. 2) I don't know if others have seen it, but there is a recent update to Handbook 2 that is floating around about the "referring to the Church and its members". The online version seems to have the section in there as section 21.1.34. This section emphasizes that we should refer to the Church by its full name, and should not refer to the Church as "the Mormon Church". However, when referring to members, the Handbook says that the full "members of the Church of..." is preferred, but Latter-day Saints and Mormons are acceptable. "Mormons" is less preferred, but still acceptable, according to the handbook. According to the Handbook, it is acceptable to refer to myself as a Mormon. We sometimes like lower-higher law descriptions, maybe "Mormon" is the telestial law, "Latter-day Saint" is the terrestrial law, and "Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" is the celestial law?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 12 hours ago, MrShorty said: We sometimes like lower-higher law descriptions, maybe "Mormon" is the telestial law, "Latter-day Saint" is the terrestrial law, and "Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" is the celestial law?? And "Texan" is the highest degree of the celestial kingdom! MrShorty 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShorty Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 @mordorbund Isn't that one of the Articles of Faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Country Music Lovers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordorbund Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 14 minutes ago, MrShorty said: @mordorbund Isn't that one of the Articles of Faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Country Music Lovers? It's a sound biblical principle. You look for the word "Utah" in the scriptures and it is nowhere to be found. But you search for its meaning "top of the mountains" and profound scriptural insight follows. As an exercise for the reader: What does "Texas" mean? Based on your new insights: Why does God love Texas so much? What makes Abraham a Texan? What additional insights can you share? MrShorty and Vort 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShorty Posted August 27, 2019 Report Share Posted August 27, 2019 To borrow from someone else (who may have been mistranslated) -- "Almost thou persuadest me to become a Texan." mordorbund 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmanuel Goldstein Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 On 8/21/2019 at 5:38 AM, mikbone said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_university_and_college_name_changes_in_the_United_States The only thing I can think of that will make a big impact is the Name of the University And BYU could also use a good cleaning. Not sure Brigham Young or the Lord would appreciate the creep of the Liberal agenda. Elder Bednar already assisted with the transition of Ricks College to BYU-Idaho and going from a 2 year to a 4 year college as well as dropping the football program... I really think BYU football will go away soon. The church may just move it over to a private corporation, in fact we could see this happen for the university too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vort Posted September 4, 2019 Report Share Posted September 4, 2019 45 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said: I really think BYU football will go away soon. The church may just move it over to a private corporation, in fact we could see this happen for the university too. I don't really care too much about football, but I would be heartbroken if the Church sold off or moved administration of BYU to a private corporate body. Fether 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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