Backroads

Family and the new firearm prohibition

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Husband isn't taking the new prohibition announcement well. He says he will happily do Come Follow Me and the like at home but doesn't want him, me, and the kids attending church services.

Just... Support and comfort, please.

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26 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

@Backroads So sorry to hear this! Do you have a ministering sister? If not, perhaps it is time to phone the RS president and be put on a priority list? Can you attend activities? Thinking of you!

I plan to continue attending regardless, but I don't know what we will do if this doesn't blow over or we don't come to an agreement over the kids. In Husband's mind, they are in real danger.

I will call the RS. Thanks.

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Guest MormonGator

Remember that it's because he's worried about you and the kids. I don't think he's trying to be cruel or controlling. @MarginOfError correctly said that the odds of a mass shooting are extremely slim-does your husband know this? 

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4 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I plan to continue attending regardless, but I don't know what we will do if this doesn't blow over or we don't come to an agreement over the kids. In Husband's mind, they are in real danger.

I will call the RS. Thanks.

I'd be interested in understanding why he thinks the children are in "real danger." 

I'll be extremely forthcoming right now and admit some things that some here may think are hypocritical. Several months ago, I very nearly purchased my first handgun and was preparing to carry it concealed at church. I was considering this because I, unfortunately, had ended up having to make a report to Child Protective Services against another member that attends church at my building. This particular member has some known anger management issues, and I was worried that there may be retaliation and I wasn't sure how that retaliation might manifest. 

At the time, I was aware that carrying firearms at church was discouraged, but I had a specific threat in mind and was willing to carry in order to guard myself against that threat. Fortunately, after some prayer and contemplation, I felt reassured that neither myself nor my family was going to face that kind of threat, and so I ended up not going through with that plan. 

But if I were to have to do that again, and felt that there was a credible need to defend myself, I might speak with the bishop about the potential threat, but this policy wouldn't stop me from carrying.

So if there is a specific and credible threat to your family's safety, I think it's worth considering.  But if there isn't a specific threat, maybe you can encourage him to conduct a rational and objective threat assessment for your church building.

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11 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

I'd be interested in understanding why he thinks the children are in "real danger

The recent church fires scare him. The recent church shootings scare him. At his job, he rubs shoulders with a lot of people who really hate the church.

In adulthood I try to rely on statistics, which potentially makes me rather wild with some risks. He isn't that way.

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9 hours ago, Backroads said:

Husband isn't taking the new prohibition announcement well. He says he will happily do Come Follow Me and the like at home but doesn't want him, me, and the kids attending church services.

Just... Support and comfort, please.

I'm terribly sorry you and your family are dealing with this difficult time. I will be praying for you.

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Sorry about your situation @Backroads.  I also disagree with this move by the Church (words I rarely produce) and can empathize with your husband.  It won't stop me from attending, but I must admit I am both confused and distraught.

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

Remember that it's because he's worried about you and the kids. I don't think he's trying to be cruel or controlling. @MarginOfError correctly said that the odds of a mass shooting are extremely slim-does your husband know this? 

He does, but he still is affected by recent tragedies. There is a boss there.

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So sorry you're dealing with this.  Personally, I'll comply with the dictate and leave my firearm in the car.  I recognize that I face many more risks on my way to church than I do once inside.  Life is full of compromises.  For me, eternal salvation and obeying my covenants are more important than the negligible risk of getting toasted during Sacrament.

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35 minutes ago, Backroads said:

He does, but he still is affected by recent tragedies. There is a boss there.

Understand. You are in my prayers @Backroads. I'm sure this will pass once the hysteria over recent events cools down. 

Edited by MormonGator

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55 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Understand. You are in my prayers @Backroads. I'm sure this will pass once the hysteria over recent events cools down. 

Pass how?  Hasn't this been policy for quite some time, only this just strengthens the verbiage?  That was my understanding, but I'm not positive on that.

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1. There are more people hit by lightning every year, than there are mass shootings at churches.
2. Far, far, far more people are killed by guns in non-mass-shooting situations.  Like 90-95% of the gun-related homicides are not mass shootings.
3. Not sure if more people are killed in churches than hit by lightning, but it's probably in the ballpark.
4. Being interested in personal/family safety should start with awareness, deterrence, and avoidance.  Then it should move to evasion and fighting back.  Hubby might wish to expand his understanding of this, if he thinks the only thing to do is carry a gun to church.  
5. I don't know anything else about your hubby, but I think I like him anyway.  If he's interested, there are LDS-specific preparedness and defense facebook groups and forums and stuff - if he's interested we could share a few.

 

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Good ideas from @NeuroTypical ! Perhaps allow Hubbie to calm down over several months and then encourage him to join Lds themed rifle association?

In the meantime, an email to the bishop just to let him know why kids are not attending. Maybe ask bishop if there is a gun enthusiast in the ward who could be assigned as ministering brother? 

In any case a gentle approach keeping in mind @MormonGator’s point that Hubbie is concerned for your safety might be the right course. 

 

Edited by Sunday21

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3 hours ago, Backroads said:

He does, but he still is affected by recent tragedies. There is a boss there.

A thought.

Many Bishops are not going to probably make a big deal about it.  They may make a suggestion in regards to the official church instructions, but they aren't going make an issue that is bigger than the one that the church is already trying to avoid.

For those Bishops that would...

Have him keep it concealed.  There will be many that do not read this instruction anyways.  He might need to be willing to leave if he is asked to take the gun out, but otherwise, keep it concealed (saying he has a concealed weapons permit). 

By Concealed, I mean...truly concealed. 

If they don't know he has it on him, then they won't consider any actions in that regard.

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3 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

A thought.

Many Bishops are not going to probably make a big deal about it.  They may make a suggestion in regards to the official church instructions, but they aren't going make an issue that is bigger than the one that the church is already trying to avoid.

For those Bishops that would...

Have him keep it concealed.  There will be many that do not read this instruction anyways.  He might need to be willing to leave if he is asked to take the gun out, but otherwise, keep it concealed (saying he has a concealed weapons permit). 

By Concealed, I mean...truly concealed. 

If they don't know he has it on him, then they won't consider any actions in that regard.

This makes sense.  Personally, I would encourage everyone to obey the policies of the Church.  HOWEVER, in this case your husband must make a choice:  follow the will of the Lord and the policy of the Church, violate the will of the Lord,  or violate the policy of the Church.  I would think he would choose to violate the policy of the Church before the will of the Lord.

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I suspect that somewhere in the scriptures there might be promises of safety and protection linked to obedience. Those scriptures might even be true. So it all depends on whether you want to put your trust in the arm of flesh by bringing your gun into the chapel, or leaving your gun in the car and trusting in God that He will do as He has promised. 

Edited by askandanswer

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2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

I suspect that somewhere in the scriptures there might be promises of safety and protection linked to obedience. Those scriptures might even be true. So it all depends on whether you want to put your trust in the arm of flesh by bringing your gun into the chapel, or leaving your gun in the car and trusting in God that He will do as He has promised. 

I trust in God too, but that doesn't mean I don't understand that the real world can be an evil place, filled with people who don't care about gun laws.  

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In the Book of Mormon Captain Moroni Rebukes the people for thinking they can do "Nothing" and that God would just save them...

Other places in the scripture we are told that God will fight our battles and protect us if we are faithful.

It is a mistake to think those are contradictory statements rather then complementary ones.   The trick is learning how to balance the two ideas... And that balance can be different for different people.... it can even be different for the same people at different times

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Sorry you're faced with this. My thoughts in no particular order:

- the odds are slim

- obedience brings blessings (study scriptures, talks that reiterate this)

- get a copy of "The Cokeville Miracle" and watch it

- if Samuel the Lamanite can be protected from arrows aimed right at him, your family can be protected, too

- read Holland's talk about angels (Oct 08 conference)

- "let your faith be bigger than your fear" (post this in your home)

- maybe this is just another way leaders are asking the members to increase their faith

- for all we know, leaders will quietly ask certain (trained) individuals to carry but this is a more organized approach of handling things in these last days

- if a person's mission in life isn't done yet, you'll be spared

- if something does happen and your family is affected, there's important work being done on the other side of the veil

- stop watching/reading the news (having faith and peace is easier this way)

- if the above doesn't help, I'd rather ignore policy than commandments (take sacrament regularly)

{hugs}

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13 minutes ago, Manners Matter said:

- get a copy of "The Cokeville Miracle" and watch it

Not particularly a calming movie to watch when discussing this topic. Additionally, it sets high expectations for God’s hand to be seen in a specific way in every scenario. I do not believe for one second that God will stop every gun man that enters any Latter-day Saint chapel.

I get uncomfortable when we talk about miracles like that as being proof that’s God loves us and watches us. It suggests that when he doesn’t prevent tragedy that he isn’t there and he doesn’t love the people that were hurt.

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21 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

In the Book of Mormon Captain Moroni Rebukes the people for thinking they can do "Nothing" and that God would just save them...

Other places in the scripture we are told that God will fight our battles and protect us if we are faithful.

It is a mistake to think those are contradictory statements rather then complementary ones.   The trick is learning how to balance the two ideas... And that balance can be different for different people.... it can even be different for the same people at different times

I think we also need to be sensitive to the fact that sometimes God asks us to lay down our arms, knowing that we will be slaughtered for our obedience.  Not all the Ammonites were preserved—thousands of them died in mid-prayer.

We can take some comfort knowing that as a matter of statistical likelihood, the Church’s new policy probably won’t get us killed.  But I don’t think @Backroads‘ husband is being either particularly paranoid or unreasonable to acknowledge that it might. or to ask himself whether he’s prepared to forfeit his and his family’s safety because a prophet asks him to.

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50 minutes ago, estradling75 said:

In the Book of Mormon Captain Moroni Rebukes the people for thinking they can do "Nothing" and that God would just save them...

Other places in the scripture we are told that God will fight our battles and protect us if we are faithful.

It is a mistake to think those are contradictory statements rather then complementary ones.   The trick is learning how to balance the two ideas... And that balance can be different for different people.... it can even be different for the same people at different times

In this case, we, the members of the church have been told to do nothing, ie, to leave our guns outside, and I think the balance has been pretty much set by the new policy

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

I trust in God too, but that doesn't mean I don't understand that the real world can be an evil place, filled with people who don't care about gun laws.  

8  For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

(New Testament | Romans 14:8)

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2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

8  For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

(New Testament | Romans 14:8)

Ya, but say that to someone who doesn’t have great faith in God and his church. 

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