If not BYU, then what college to send the kids to?

[NordicSisu]

My high school sr is inactive and doesn't want to go to BYU.  It is, however, what we can afford.  Have been looking online, it's hard to beat that tuition. Have you found another school that is affordable?

[Just_A_Guy]

2 hours ago, NordicSisu said:

My high school sr is inactive and doesn't want to go to BYU.  It is, however, what we can afford.  Have been looking online, it's hard to beat that tuition. Have you found another school that is affordable?

Welcome!

I would say it’s not your problem.  It’s your kid’s problem.  You have x budget for a college tuition.  BYU fit within that criteria, and if the kid doesn’t want to go there, they can find another school that fits within that same budget. 

By the way—the beginning of the senior year seems a little late to begin the process of picking a college if your kid plans to start in the fall of 2020.  Might be better to just have your kid get a job right out of high school and take their time with the college decision, rather than rush through the process now to get into a program that maybe the kid wouldn’t picked if (s)he had had more time to think it over?

[Vort]

Community colleges tend to be very affordable.

[BeccaKirstyn]

Some in-state universities offer scholarships for kids who stay in the state instead of leaving for another university out-of-state. Look into (or have your child look into) the scholarship options your in-state universities offer! This will also save you money as they will most likely live at home (unless you prefer them not to)--which wouldn't be the case at BYU. Unless you live in Utah or Idaho....and then my last point is null. My in-state university ended up being cheaper for me than BYU because I could live at home and because I received a scholarship for graduating from a state high school with a specific GPA. Good luck!

Edited September 4, 2019 by BeccaKirstyn

[anatess2]

Sorry but the OP question is terrible.  The question assumes that you should go to college for the sake of going to college.  The question should be... What do you need College for?

The answer to that question will decide which college - if any - your son will need.

The video below is pretty good at discussing this.  "Most kids go to college not because they are invested in a career path that require college but because their parents make them."

 

 

Edited September 4, 2019 by anatess2

[Guest MormonGator]

10 hours ago, Vort said:

Community colleges tend to be very affordable.

That, and they teach you useful skill. Don't get me wrong, I'm very proud of my BA, but I do not think college is for everyone. 

[prisonchaplain]

BYU is quite competitive, if I am not mistaken. So, there should be other private schools that will toss some money his way. My oldest is at Grand Canyon University, in Phoenix, AZ, and is paying less than she would to go to an in-state school. GCU is Evangelical, but does not require students to participate or express faith. Quite a few schools with religious foundations are that way. Another possibility is to check schools in Canada. The exchange rate is favorable now, so they may be surprisingly reasonable.

[Jane_Doe]

This is also a great question for you + your son + his High School Career Counselor to set down and look at options.  Consider not only tuition cost, but also your son's career ambitions, culture matches, location, etc.   

[without_you]

On 9/3/2019 at 9:12 PM, NordicSisu said:

My high school sr is inactive and doesn't want to go to BYU.  It is, however, what we can afford.  Have been looking online, it's hard to beat that tuition. Have you found another school that is affordable?

if you're kid is inactive. When he signs up for BYU, he's going to have to accept the policy and honor code of byu.

 

Honor Code Statement

We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men....If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things. (Thirteenth Article of Faith.)

As a matter of personal commitment, the faculty, administration, staff, and students of Brigham Young University, Brigham Young University-Hawaii, BYU-I, and LDS Business College seek to demonstrate in daily living on and off-campus those moral virtues encompassed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and will:

• Be honest
• Live a chaste and virtuous life
• Obey the law and all campus policies
• Use clean language
• Respect others
• Abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee, and substance abuse
• Participate regularly in church services
• Observe Dress and Grooming Standards
• Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code

Specific policies embodied in the Honor Code include (1) the Academic Honesty Policy, (2) the Dress and Grooming Standards, (3) the Residential Living Standards, and (4) the Continuing Student Ecclesiastical Endorsement Requirement. (Refer to institutional policies for more detailed information.)

https://policy.byu.edu/view/index.php?p=26

 

IF he's inactive, are you sure he can live by those codes if he goes to BYU? If not, but he still goes there...well I'm not to judge but...he has to follow those rules or he will get kicked out!

I'm a BYUI graduate.

[without_you]

Just now, without_you said:

if you're kid is inactive. When he signs up for BYU, he's going to have to accept the policy and honor code of byu.

 

Honor Code Statement

We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men....If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things. (Thirteenth Article of Faith.)

As a matter of personal commitment, the faculty, administration, staff, and students of Brigham Young University, Brigham Young University-Hawaii, BYU-I, and LDS Business College seek to demonstrate in daily living on and off-campus those moral virtues encompassed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and will:

• Be honest
• Live a chaste and virtuous life
• Obey the law and all campus policies
• Use clean language
• Respect others
• Abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee, and substance abuse
• Participate regularly in church services
• Observe Dress and Grooming Standards
• Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code

Specific policies embodied in the Honor Code include (1) the Academic Honesty Policy, (2) the Dress and Grooming Standards, (3) the Residential Living Standards, and (4) the Continuing Student Ecclesiastical Endorsement Requirement. (Refer to institutional policies for more detailed information.)

https://policy.byu.edu/view/index.php?p=26

 

IF he's inactive, are you sure he can live by those codes if he goes to BYU? If not, but he still goes there...well I'm not to judge but...he has to follow those rules or he will get kicked out!

I'm a BYUI graduate.

College is not worth it nowadays anyway. Send him to a Trade school instead. WELL WORTH IT!

[Backroads]

Husband got his bachelor's in a science field. Failed to find related job.

Husband fell into the security guard business.

Husband makes more than me. Yes, I'm a teacher, but we don't make too awful a salary.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Backroads

[without_you]

44 minutes ago, Backroads said:

Husband got his bachelor's in a science field. Failed to find related job.

Husband fell into the security guard business.

Husband makes more than me. Yes, I'm a teacher, but we don't make too awful a salary.

We need more entry-level jobs in the market.

[Backroads]

5 hours ago, without_you said:

We need more entry-level jobs in the market.

But all entry-level jobs want five years' experience.

 

My husband loves his job. Not the career he expected, but it has become his thing. He teaches a lot of classes these days.

My point was there many non-degreed jobs that can a great way to go.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Backroads

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Backroads said:

But all entry-level jobs want five years' experience.

That sounds oxymoronic.

In any case, usually, all college graduates go through a 2-year-period of transition after graduation trying to land a career (not just a job).  The best way to land a job within one's career path is to get accepted into an internship.  Internships usually start accepting an applicant within his last year of course study.

A lot of times, people who graduate from college miss out on entry-level jobs within their career path because they feel their diploma is worth more than minimum wage.

My brother graduated from medical school and got paid 8000 pesos a month in residency.  That would be $150.  His apartment cost 6000 pesos a month.  He has a choice whether to buy food with the rest of the money or pay for electricity... but he took the job because doctors have to go through residency (the medical equivalent to internship).

[Fether]

I’m all for not going to college, I dropped out after 2 years and have had a pretty good experience so far. I’ll have 2+ years of work experience before any of my friends even get a job or internship. It depends on what you want do for a career of course. Some jobs require a degree.

 Now on to the other matter, it may be too late for this, but I never once expected my parents to pay for college. They never once said they would either. I expected to get scholarships, work and attend school. It may be too late to set that expectation though.

Other than that, community colleges are fantastic! They are places for both losers who don’t get into colleges, and the most brilliant people that don’t care about status and don’t want to pay a premium for the same education they could get anywhere else.

[JohnsonJones]

In many parts of the US, state colleges and universities can actually be cheaper than BYU today.  Some of them depend on grades and residency, but I've seen some State universities literally be half to a quarter of the cost of BYU for those who had great grades and residency.  Non-residents on the otherhand might pay out of the nose.

Community Colleges can also be cheaper in many ways and far more affordable.

If one is in Europe, depending on the test scores, Universities may actually be free though one will still need to pay for housing and food.

[Sunday21]

Brandon university Manitoba. Nice people. Nothing much to do but study. International tuition, meal plan and residence $16,700 US$. Good business school. I taught there. Students were exceptionally kind, honest, and hardworking. Very cold in winter. 

[Backroads]

8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

10 hours ago, Backroads said:

But all entry-level jobs want five years' experience.

That sounds oxymoronic

It certainly is.

I say it in jest, but it's a fairly common complaint--mostly about lousy job ads.

[anatess2]

31 minutes ago, Backroads said:

It certainly is.

I say it in jest, but it's a fairly common complaint--mostly about lousy job ads.

I'm fairly certain what they meant is... we want 5-years experience but will only pay for entry level rate. 

 

[Grunt]

The kid has a choice:  BYU or work his way through college.

[BeccaKirstyn]

34 minutes ago, Grunt said:

The kid has a choice:  BYU or work his way through college.

And it's very common for college kids to work part-time jobs or even full-time jobs to help pay for school. I personally believe it makes you a better student. You learn to prioritize your time more wisely, you gain more skills than you would just going to your classes and coming home. And you're building your resume while you're preparing for a job within your field. I'm a huge proponent of kids working during college. It is very doable. Easy? Nope, but doable and well worth it.

[Grunt]

9 minutes ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

And it's very common for college kids to work part-time jobs or even full-time jobs to help pay for school. I personally believe it makes you a better student. You learn to prioritize your time more wisely, you gain more skills than you would just going to your classes and coming home. And you're building your resume while you're preparing for a job within your field. I'm a huge proponent of kids working during college. It is very doable. Easy? Nope, but doable and well worth it.

Worked for me.  If you are paying for your classes, I feel they mean more.

[anatess2]

6 minutes ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

And it's very common for college kids to work part-time jobs or even full-time jobs to help pay for school. I personally believe it makes you a better student. You learn to prioritize your time more wisely, you gain more skills than you would just going to your classes and coming home. And you're building your resume while you're preparing for a job within your field. I'm a huge proponent of kids working during college. It is very doable. Easy? Nope, but doable and well worth it.

I agree with you. 

But there's a trade-off.  Multi-tasking is great for computers, not so great for humans.  I worked through college.  If I didn't work, I could have maintained my grades to keep full tuition scholarship.  But I would rather work than get the grades... If it were not for my dad nagging me I would have rather worked than go to college at all.  My job now is the same type job that I had in college.

My husband just started college when we got married.  I told him to quit his job and concentrate on school because I wanted him to finish in 3 years instead of 4.  He did that for one semester and it was good but he was too macho-man to accept the situation that he wasn't bringing home any bacon for his wife so he went to work and took 5 years to finish his bachelor's degree mainly because of burn-out.  So, that's also another trade-off.

[Backroads]

1 hour ago, BeccaKirstyn said:

And it's very common for college kids to work part-time jobs or even full-time jobs to help pay for school. I personally believe it makes you a better student. You learn to prioritize your time more wisely, you gain more skills than you would just going to your classes and coming home. And you're building your resume while you're preparing for a job within your field. I'm a huge proponent of kids working during college. It is very doable. Easy? Nope, but doable and well worth it.

Heh. My college job was cleaning buildings. Not much of a resume builder. To be fair, I manipulated the credit/GPA/scholarship formula, overworked myself one trimester, and thus scored a full-ride scholarship. 

[Fether]

I personally worked part-time at 2 separate jobs,  ran a side gig business detailing cars, did side jobs with my roommate on occasion, attended school full time (with 14-16 credits depending on whether it was football season or not), and was on the college drumline (which honestly took up the majority of the time during the fall). All the while maintaining a healthy 3.7 GPA to hold on to my scholarship and playing a health 15+ hours of videogames a week. One of my jobs was a night shift job where most of my homework and videogame time was accomplished.

I don't feel like I was superhuman, in fact I felt there were still plenty of times I slacked off or procrastinated. that being said, I am one of the few that actually does very well with lectures. I know there are a ton of people who learn differently, but I did well with lectures and tests. I am one of the few people that typical public education strategies sit well with.

Oh and btw... I never once felt like school debt or my living expenses were too high. Tuition was $6,000 a year with my scholarship (and then I was getting paid $2,000 after I got married and applied for grants). Had I continued and gotten my planned accounting/finance degree at SUU and later a masters, total school cost, ignoring interest) would have been around $20,000, but it would have been about $50,000 had I not gotten a scholarship or grants (not counting living expenses).

So maybe someone can help me understand? From what I see, this school loan debt crisis the country is freaking out about seems to come from students:
1) Going to big popular and expensive schools
2) Not working at all in college
3) Using loan money to fund expensive lifestyles and unnecessary trips
4) Students not getting scholarships of any sort
5) Highly intensive science and medical degrees

To me, with the exception of the 5th point, it seems like this "crisis" we are having was brought on by bad decisions made by individuals and not a broken system. Am I missing something in my analysis?

Edited September 7, 2019 by Fether