How do I tell someone they should not attend the ward?


dddd
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Before you assume I'm horrible from the title, hear me out. Recently I was out with a friend and we ran into a friend of hers, who I guess used to be her nail tech. We invited her to sit and eat with us, and while we were and chatting I learned she is a convert to the church of a few years, divorcee of a few years, single mom, and looking to date men who are members. We started talking about dating as we are all single and I teased my friend that she never comes to the Young Single Adult Ward despite being in her 20's. This acquaintance says that she had never heard of singles wards before, and what a fun idea it is. I mention that they should come together sometime with me. The next week my friend puts all of us in a group chat and says we should go to church together. We carpool and this acquaintance really enjoys it, and says she is going to talk to her Bishop about transferring records. 

However, here is the kicker. I knew she must be a little older as she has grade school aged children, and she mentioned she married young, but she has one of those faces that you can't really tell how old she is. But come to find out she is at least 42, and has a son who is 23! She told us that she does not have an interest in dating men her age, and wants to date guys who are like 25, and not really older. She has come to this singles ward several times, and each time she leaves her grade school age kids home to play video games without taking them to church. She also asked me to take her to FHE and young adult activities. I told her the singles wards are typically for people no older than 30, but she says she doesn't know where else to meet young guys. She says the YSA Bishop told her it would be fine to transfer her records, but I'm imagining he is assuming she is actually YSA age.

My friend who has known her a lot longer, says she thinks she is definitely trying to reclaim her youth that she spent married to her former husband. But it's weird. She really is a sweet lady, and as someone who has gotten to know her the past couple weeks I can tell she has good intentions, but I definitely think someone telling her that she would be better off in a family ward should come from someone she knows instead of a stranger in the ward, or be offended. Is it even any of my business? She keeps contacting me to see if I'm going to church or if we can go to activities together. How would you handle this?

Edited by dddd
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It's not even about whether it's your business or not, that's beside the point.  You should not get in the way of a person attending Sacrament Meeting regardless of the reason unless she's going to shoot up the ward or she's intending to disrupt Sacrament Meeting.  If going to Sacrament Meeting to meet guys is the reason she gets to attend Sacrament Meeting, then that's one way you can get someone to be in a position to be inspired by the Holy Ghost.  Trust the guys to know how to protect themselves from a cougar.

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

It's not even about whether it's your business or not, that's beside the point.  You should not get in the way of a person attending Sacrament Meeting regardless of the reason unless she's going to shoot up the ward or she's intending to disrupt Sacrament Meeting.  If going to Sacrament Meeting to meet guys is the reason she gets to attend Sacrament Meeting, then that's one way you can get someone to be in a position to be inspired by the Holy Ghost.  Trust the guys to know how to protect themselves from a cougar.

It's not that she's inactive, she's an active member of the church. I wasn't suggesting she is not attending of her own free will. And it's not the guys I'm worried about, it's her. She already has tried dating someone and been pretty crushed when things went badly.

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8 minutes ago, dddd said:

It becomes my business when she is asking me for rides, etc. How would you handle that?

It can be hard to turn someone down when they ask for something your not comfortable giving.  It doesn't have anything to do with gender or religion.  It's a game of looking good in a culture.  You can't tell the truth, because the truth is "I feel uncomfortable giving you a ride because you're so much older than me and I'm really not interested in you."   So you're stuck with something that declines but doesn't engage.  

"Can I have a ride?"
"Sorry, I must decline."
"Why?"
"Personal reasons I'd rather not go into."

That can be hard, but the more someone pushes, the more they become the rude social-convention-breaker.

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You could say something along the lines as.

I'm so glad you are coming to church.  Typically this ward I go to is for people under 30.  I'm happy to invite and bring you to the activities, but I think you're children would be best served if they could attend a family ward with you where there would be a primary with kids their age.

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That is a difficult situation to be in. Definitely let the bishop figure out the records thing. As for your relationship with this person and how to handle conversations about going to church/activities, I would just say that you're not able to give her rides anymore and leave it at that. If she asks why, then you just say it's a personal matter and you'd wish to not discuss it. 

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You do not tell someone that they should not attend the ward.  It is not your stewardship, it is not your prerogative.

However nothing requires you to support actions you disagree with.  The moment they ask you for 'help' that gives you a limited stewardship and prerogative.  You can say no to rendering that aid.  If you respect that limit you are on solid ground.  Beyond that you need to leave it be.

 

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22 hours ago, dddd said:

It's not that she's inactive, she's an active member of the church. I wasn't suggesting she is not attending of her own free will. And it's not the guys I'm worried about, it's her. She already has tried dating someone and been pretty crushed when things went badly.

If this is the main concern, and not church regulations about age, then, despite some weirdness, does this have to be a big deal? She's at least 42, has adult children, and will likely figure out what is appropriate and what is not on her own (or perhaps with the help of the leadership once her paperwork comes to light). Unless the Spirit is really prompting you that this situation is somehow spiritually dangerous, it may be best to just let it play out. If she gets hurt, be as supportive as your relationship with her allows you to be. There are so many thoughts and opinions we carry that will never be spoken. When we reach eternity I suspect we will thank Heavenly Father that He somehow led us to be silent.

Edited by prisonchaplain
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On 9/10/2019 at 10:29 AM, dddd said:

It becomes my business when she is asking me for rides, etc. How would you handle that?

How is how she handles her personal affairs your business even if she asks for rides? There is nothing to handle. If you got a bee in your bonnet about her life decisions keep them to yourself, if you feel super self righteous about it stop giving her rides. Your giving her rides does not allow you to be a busy body.

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On 9/10/2019 at 11:29 AM, dddd said:

It becomes my business when she is asking me for rides, etc. How would you handle that?

Her asking you for free rides isn't a reason to tell her to attend another ward.

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And it's not the guys I'm worried about, it's her. 

So you are worried about her, but are bothered that she asks you for free rides?    It seems like someone who is concerned about someone would be more than happy to offer someone a free ride unless your own safety is your concern.  

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 Is it even any of my business?

No.



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She keeps contacting me to see if I'm going to church or if we can go to activities together. How would you handle this?

I would be nice to her and be her friend and acknowlege to myself that her dating habits and age are none of my business.   I would also offer her a free ride if she needed it (though I prefer to walk to church whenever possible).

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On 9/10/2019 at 1:28 PM, Vort said:

I'll echo the MYOB statements, and also add that when her records get transferred into the ward, the bishop will know immediately how old she is (and probably her family composition, too). Don't worry about it.

Are you sure about this? I had a bishop who told me it was time to look for a husband. He told me that as I was x age it was time. Well that age had passed me by many years previously! I had recently joined the ward.

 I suspect that they had a group of single people in that age and he was encouraging everyone in that cohort. So I am not sure that bishops necessarily see those records. Perhaps record clerks see that info.

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On 9/10/2019 at 1:29 PM, dddd said:

It becomes my business when she is asking me for rides, etc. How would you handle that?

She is not breaking a commandment by going to the singles ward and participating there.  If one of the leaders decides that is not where she should be, then that is up to them, not you.  Be a friend and give her the ride.

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  • 2 months later...

Have her membership records been moved to the YSA ward?  If not she should see the ward clerk and get that done.  The Bishop will then be informed and the ball is in his court.  He may decide to allow it or gently direct her to a more suitable ward.  It is the Bishop's call though, not yours.  In some areas there are wards for over 30's who are single.

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Inform your bishop, he definitely has the right to know what is happening, and then let him decide what to do from there, and then forget about it as it is not your position to say who can and can't attend. If this person was male, same, inform the bishop.

Edited by Anddenex
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Guest MormonGator
20 hours ago, Anddenex said:

then forget about it as it is not your position to say who can and can't attend.

This is actually great advice. If we minded our own business and kept our nose out of others affairs we'd save ourselves a ton of drama. 

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I would normally be in the MYOB crowd.  But I'd ask a question of those who have already chimed in.

If this were, say, a 40 year-old man, who just happened to still look like he was in his mid-to-late 20s (yes, they exist) would we be saying anything different?  I get the feeling that many would be calling him a predator of these poor defenseless young women (who are also adults, BTW).

Is this woman denied the "predator" label simply because she's a woman?

Edited by Mores
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@dddd

I read your OP and it seems like everything was okay with you until you realized that she is at least 42 and it seems like you have  a problem with this lady dating younger men. 

You ask if it is even any of your business and the answer is no, it is not. You are just disagreeing with her choices. If you don't want to give her rides, just politely decline. That's all.

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3 hours ago, Mores said:

I would normally be in the MYOB crowd.  But I'd ask a question of those who have already chimed in.

If this were, say, a 40 year-old man, who just happened to still look like he was in his mid-to-late 20s (yes, they exist) would we be saying anything different?  I get the feeling that many would be calling him a predator of these poor defenseless young women (who are also adults, BTW).

Is this woman denied the "predator" label simply because she's a woman?

When I started on this forum some 13+ years ago, I remember being struck (read: irritated) by the very obvious double standard that many list participants held regarding men vs. women. Women were given a pass for almost anything, up to and including adultery, while men were routinely harangued for relatively minor offenses. The attitude going in to any problem was that any complaining female is a poor, put-upon victim, while any complaining male needs to man up and quit his whining, and by the way, given that he's male, he's probably guilty of wrongdoing, so don't give him the benefit of any doubt.

I haven't seen much of that obvious display of double standard here in quite some time, except from certain individuals. But I do think there's a constant undercurrent of that remaining, and certainly so in the larger culture. I'm not entirely free of it myself, given how I don't worry as much about my adult sons being in a dangerous position while dating as I worry about my daughter. But then, I don't worry much about my daughter being falsely accused of inappropriate or even criminal acts, yet I warn my sons to steer well clear of situations that might even look compromising. Unfair? You bet. But if I don't want to be like the idiots who scream "Victim blaming!" when a father tells his daughter not to get drunk at a 2am party and run around naked lest she be ill-used, I can hardly begrudge anyone (including myself) for warning their sons to avoid doing things that, while perfectly legal and perhaps even innocuous, risk getting them in an ugly situation.

I don't know where it ends. I deplore the double standard, and I greatly deplore the cancer of feminism that so eagerly upholds and spreads that double standard. But you might as well curse the tide for coming in, for all the good it will do. 

Edited by Vort
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