dddd

How do I tell someone they should not attend the ward?

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@dddd 

It's always interesting to me how sometimes we can differ from the majority in our opinions, and I do in this case.

As a former High Councilor that had responsibility for working with the YSA and Single Adult programs in a stake, I think it was always an important responsibility for everyone involved to help maintain the Church designated age and divorce policy restrictions. Of course you can't force her to stop attending, but neither can the Bishop without calling police officers to remove her. 

Rather than expecting the Bishop to take care of all the "dirty work" which really isn't dirty work at all, I'm glad you attempted to help the Bishop out by lovingly suggesting to her that the ward is actually intended for those 18-30. If more help is needed, you can ask the High Councilor over the YSA ward, or other Senior couples who may be called to help the YSA ward, or by referring the matter to the Relief Society President or Elder's Quorum President.

Handbook 2 is pretty clear: "Membership in a young single adult ward is temporary. Leaders help young single adults prepare to return to a conventional ward when they marry or reach age 31." The age and divorce restrictions are wise church policies based on many years of experience. YSA wards change constantly and the Bishop does not have the time to evaluate and police all these matters himself. The members need to help self-police the policies similar to how the youth help maintain the church standards at church dances. It is always more effective for youth to caution other youth rather than leaders or adults.

At a minimum, I suggest you gently and lovingly decline to offer her future rides and be straightforward and honest why - because she shouldn't be attending the YSA ward. She may find another ride and attend, and you can still greet her warmly when she does. But I think she will respect you for doing what you know to be right.

People say you avoid a ton of drama when you don't tell people the truth, but in my experience that's not correct. You simply create more drama and shift it to someone else who has to deal with it all eventually. I think that's why I loved living on the East Coast (New Jersey), people were straight up with no hidden agendas. Blunt and honest was a refreshing change from my West Coast upbringing.

As for membership records, the Church does not typically move YSA records into the YSA ward in local stakes so that may not even be an issue. They do when you go off to college or something similar and then attend a YSA ward. 

In any case, as one who had the opportunity to ask many people to attend their proper YSA, SA, and home wards (or not to attend at all until after their divorces were final) I respect that I'm in the minority on this one and wish you luck!

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Guest Mores
7 hours ago, clwnuke said:

As for membership records, the Church does not typically move YSA records into the YSA ward in local stakes so that may not even be an issue.

They do in this stake.

On 9/10/2019 at 1:04 AM, dddd said:

she has one of those faces that you can't really tell how old she is. But come to find out she is at least 42

This is something that you could possibly parley into something useful.

When you have conversations with others in the ward while she is not around, you could use this "compliment" to spread the word.  Casually slip it into conversations as if you're PRAISING her for her youthful looks.  Say things like,"Oh boy, I wish I could look so young when I hit 42."  Use some variations on the theme and come up with many different phrases to drop into conversation with both male and female groups.

This is, of course, quite devious.  But the truth is that I find her to be a devious, selfish, childish predator.  I'd feel justified.  But that's just me.  I'm just an anonymous voice on the internet.  What do I know?

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18 hours ago, Vort said:

...

I'm not entirely free of it myself, given how I don't worry as much about my adult sons being in a dangerous position while dating as I worry about my daughter. But then, I don't worry much about my daughter being falsely accused of inappropriate or even criminal acts, yet I warn my sons to steer well clear of situations that might even look compromising.

...

I don't know where it ends. I deplore the double standard, and I greatly deplore the cancer of feminism that so eagerly upholds and spreads that double standard. But you might as well curse the tide for coming in, for all the good it will do. 

I'm not sure that these are the same things.

Your positions on how you treat your children are not based on the same reasoning or motivation as the feminist double standard.

YOUR POSITION: You recognize a reality regarding each (male, female respectively).  And you act, think, feel accordingly.

FEMINIST POSITION:  Declare that any reality can be changed simply by legislation, regulation, lawsuits, and "public awareness".  Ignore the idea that there are some underlying realities that cannot be changed.

Reality #1: Women get pregnant.
Reality #2: Women are statistically smaller and, yes, weaker than men. In all the physically powerful statistics, men are far higher than women.  Trans athletes in women's sports anyone?
Reality #3: Women have a whole lot more do deal with biologically than men. Her studies showed that women's bodies metabolize, build, and burn differently before, during, and after a period.  You're familiar with moodiness and so forth.  But the problem is that so much is going on with a woman's body that it is a wonder that any women can keep it together as much as they do.  There is a LOT more about a woman's body that changes than is common knowledge.  We simply haven't studied enough.  You thought the arab nations were behind?  We're not really that much better as far as what we know about the differences between men's and women's bodies.

Because of these (and many other) issues, it is perfectly reasonable to have a little more sympathy and make more allowance for women than men -- statistically speaking.  But that doesn't mean every situation should follow that rule.

The idea that "women cannot be predators" is an exaggeration of a basically true principle.  There are many biological reasons to believe this is largely true.  But it is certainly not even near 100% true.  What the exact percentage is will be forever a mystery because no one is going to do a study to determine how many are "actual" predators.  Beyond its politically incorrect concept, there are too many variables to screen out.

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As I mentioned earlier I see no issue with stopping the support (giving rides) of behavior I disagree with.  And being clear on why when asked.  And I have no issues with informaing leadership (The Elder Quorum and Relief Society Presidents are also leaders)

As for there being a double standard... That is a very real possibility.  After all I was a young man once and I very likely would not have cared that an older lady was attending a singles ward with me.  I am also the father of sons and a daughter and I am far more protective of my little girl then I am my boys.  Is this a double standard?  clearly... is it going to change?  Nope I just do not see that happening.

 

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Not only is it IN the handbook that anyone 31+ would switch from the YSA ward - BUT in fairness to all the others, they have an expectation that their peers in the ward are all similar ages of 18-30.  I personally would have zero problems telling this woman "Hey, you know when I suggested the YSA ward?  Well I had no idea you weren't in the 18-30 age group!  I know, right?  You look really awesome.  But, I'm really sorry for suggesting it because obviously, you really shouldn't be going to the YSA ward, it IS for those 18-30 year olds.  Sorry I messed up with my suggestion but it was in a good way!  That's quite the compliment!"

 

And then bow out of helping with rides or anything else.... 

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