Nacho2Dope

Conference Rumors

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Has there been any news on conference rumors? I have heard some of about shorting the mission length, and also a few who want the WOW changed. Anything anyone else has heard? Sorry I know that not everyone gets into this.

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Maybe - Announcement of a large group of smaller temples in more remote areas. I think the Guam temple is a sign of things to come.

Likely - More info on the youth program.

Possibly - More detailed questions for Temple recommend. Perhaps regarding the use of certain substances. We may be asked if we smoke or ingest marijuana. Who knows? This is just a guess on my part.

 

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2 hours ago, Nacho2Dope said:

Has there been any news on conference rumors? I have heard some of about shorting the mission length, and also a few who want the WOW changed. Anything anyone else has heard? Sorry I know that not everyone gets into this.

Two observations:

1. Why do such rumors always involve e.g. SHORTER mission/meeting times instead of LONGER? Where are the three-year-mission rumors? Where are the hopes that the Word of Wisdom will become much more restrictive and tell us other things we shouldn't eat or drink, like maybe soda pop?

2. Why should we expect or even anticipate further changes when we as a Church are doing so poorly in living according to what we already have? It's like people who have never studied scriptures pining for the sealed portion of the gold plates.

[/ice_water]

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18 minutes ago, Vort said:

 

2. Why should we expect or even anticipate further changes when we as a Church are doing so poorly in living according to what we already have? It's like people who have never studied scriptures pining for the sealed portion of the gold plates.

[/ice_water]

One observation:

1) Someone always complains about people making “conference rumors” every 6 months when the topic comes up

I mean that in the most light hearted way possible of course :)

but an honest response to this. Correct me if I’m wrong... but God doesn’t really wait for the unfaithful to catch up (Matthew 25:1-13), he just goes forward with his plans and the faithful follow. Additionally, Pres Nelson did say a lot of changes are coming.

I see nothing wrong with speculation of things to come, but I do see something wrong with people getting excited about future changes when they haven’t applied recent changes into their lives (I’m looking at you @Fether).

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2 hours ago, Nacho2Dope said:

Has there been any news on conference rumors? I have heard some of about shorting the mission length, and also a few who want the WOW changed. Anything anyone else has heard? Sorry I know that not everyone gets into this.

 

- WOW including marijuana explicitly (though I don’t know that that is necessary)

- Perhaps an addition to temple recommend including tattoos (not having, but getting).

- New youth program

- I don’t think they will “shorten” missions. If anything, perhaps freedom in choosing how long of a mission you want to serve?

- Nothing will be taken out of the word of wisdom. Too much good has come from it. I guess if God wills it he can change it, as it has changed in the past. 

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46 minutes ago, Vort said:

2. Why should we expect or even anticipate further changes when we as a Church are doing so poorly in living according to what we already have?

I think 95% of LDS are doing a great job living the rules and standards of the church and feel terrible guilt about the things they struggle with. The LAST thing they need is to be lectured to about how poorly they are doing. 

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38 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I think 95% of LDS are doing a great job living the rules and standards of the church and feel terrible guilt about the things they struggle with. The LAST thing they need is to be lectured to about how poorly they are doing. 

 I think very few of us are living up to our covenants.  When we renew our temple recommends and are asked whether we live up to all of our covenants, I suspect that many or even most of us answer, as I often have, "I'm trying to."

Which is good. I don't find fault with anyone for such an answer. But it's not enough. We cannot build Zion with good intentions alone. At some point, we need to make good on our efforts.

Commandments are a great blessing, as long as we're living them, or at least earnestly striving to. But the higher law is always a curse to those who cannot or will not live it. That is why a loving God gave ancient Israel the law of Moses instead of requiring them to live the higher law. That is why the plates were sealed.

The restoration is an ongoing thing, but it's not a constant, smooth curve of increasing light and revelation. There are many things that await us, but that we will never receive until we are ready and have proven ourselves capable of receiving and living a higher law. Acknowledging this fact is not self-flagellation. It's honesty, seeing things as they really are and telling the truth.

Edited by Vort

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7 minutes ago, Vort said:

 I think very few of us are living up to our covenants.  When we renew our temple recommends and are asked whether we live up to all of our covenants, I suspect that many or even most of us answer, as I often have, "I'm trying to."

Which is good. I don't find fault with anyone for such an answer. But it's not enough. We cannot build Zion with good intentions alone. At some point, we need to make good on our efforts.

Commandments are a great blessing, as long as we're living them, or at least earnestly striving to. But the higher law is always a curse to those who cannot or will not live it. That is why a loving God gave ancient Israel the law of Moses instead of requiring them to live the higher law. That is why the plates were sealed.

The restoration is an ongoing thing, but it's not a constant, smooth curve of increasing light and revelation. There are many things that await us, but that we will never receive until we are ready and have proven ourselves capable of receiving and living a higher law. Acknowledging this fact is not self-flagellation. It's honesty, seeing things as they really are and telling the truth.

Yeah, I see it totally differently. I think LDS are way too hard on themselves, doing the best they can, and that's more than enough. 

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15 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Yeah, I see it totally differently. I think LDS are way too hard on themselves, doing the best they can, and that's more than enough. 

I think some Saints think that way to justify their unwillingness to follow the covenants, or even give it a serious try.  It's much easier to make excuses why we can't.

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Just now, Grunt said:

I think some Saints think that way to justify their unwillingness to follow the covenants, or even give it a serious try.  It's much easier to make excuses why we can't.

If you think so. I know of several LDS who follow all the rules, tithe, everything, and still are incredibly hard on themselves. It's sad. I want to give these people a hug. 

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Just now, MormonGator said:

If you think so. I know of several LDS who follow all the rules, tithe, everything, and still are incredibly hard on themselves. It's sad. I want to give these people a hug. 

I applaud them.  “Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in Heaven is perfect.” 

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Just now, Grunt said:

I applaud them.  “Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in Heaven is perfect.” 

I do too. I'm thinking of one family in particular-who felt awful that they couldn't do more. This guy was in the bishopric, went to the temple all the time, everything. Great people. Wonderful people in fact. And, like a few others in their situation, they felt unworthy and were oddly depressed. It broke my heart. 

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3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

If you think so. I know of several LDS who follow all the rules, tithe, everything, and still are incredibly hard on themselves. It's sad. I want to give these people a hug. 

 

Just now, Grunt said:

I applaud them.  “Therefore I would that ye should be perfect even as I, or your Father who is in Heaven is perfect.” 

These aren't opposed to each other: we can still strive to honor our covenants while still feeling God's love when we fail and when we succeed.  Preaching love doesn't mean we need to stop preaching the importance of striving, and vise versa.  

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Just now, Jane_Doe said:

 

These aren't opposed to each other: we can still strive to honor our covenants while still feeling God's love when we fail and when we succeed.  Preaching love doesn't mean we need to stop preaching the importance of striving, and vise versa.  

Absolutely.  We won't be complete in this life.  We are to strive for it, though.  I was specifically speaking to the Saints that make excuses for not striving for it, myself included at times.

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2 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

 Preaching love doesn't mean we need to stop preaching the importance of striving, and vise versa.  

They may not be opposed to each other, and I do think some LDS suffer from self worth issues. Tragic. 

Edited by MormonGator

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19 hours ago, Vort said:

 I think very few of us are living up to our covenants.  When we renew our temple recommends and are asked whether we live up to all of our covenants, I suspect that many or even most of us answer, as I often have, "I'm trying to."

Which is good. I don't find fault with anyone for such an answer. But it's not enough. We cannot build Zion with good intentions alone. At some point, we need to make good on our efforts.

Commandments are a great blessing, as long as we're living them, or at least earnestly striving to. But the higher law is always a curse to those who cannot or will not live it. That is why a loving God gave ancient Israel the law of Moses instead of requiring them to live the higher law. That is why the plates were sealed.

The restoration is an ongoing thing, but it's not a constant, smooth curve of increasing light and revelation. There are many things that await us, but that we will never receive until we are ready and have proven ourselves capable of receiving and living a higher law. Acknowledging this fact is not self-flagellation. It's honesty, seeing things as they really are and telling the truth.

Ever have a moment where you hear something that strikes such a strong chord in your heart that it sticks with you forever? There was a man in my ward of whom I respected more than most due to the charity he selflessly gave and the gospel principles I watched him live. I heard him make an off the cuff comment in a gospel doctrine when I was young. I don't remember the topic or what was being discussed, but he said "I think there will be a lot of people expecting to get into the celestial kingdom that will find they are wrong." I'm not saying this man's words are equal to the prophets, but the spirit his comment brought to me (which only I can really be sure of) was undeniable. I would consider the quote by Bruce R McConkie 

“The elect of God comprise a very select group, an inner  of faithful members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They are the portion of church members who are striving with all their hearts to keep the fulness of the gospel law in this life so that they can become inheritors of the fulness of gospel rewards in the life to come.”

I am going to make some potentially harsh statement and accusations that may reveal the kind of saint I am (for better or for worst), Of which I am sure many of us are guilty of (and know I am guilty of a few).

I do not believe that the elect of God:
- Complain about giving talks, seriously or sarcastically (I absolutely hate the culture of "it's funny to complain about giving a talk/accepting a calling")
- Reject callings
- Joke about not wanting their current stewardship as a leader or teacher
- Reject an assignment to teach
- Are checking Social Media during church
- Gossip EVER
- watch ANY movie with immoral or ammoral content (PG-13 and some PG movies)
- Attend the temple less than once a month (when within a reachable distance)
- fail to read their scriptures and pray regularly
- Swear
- Break the sabbath
- Fail to do FHE
- Fail to take their spouse on a date (or treat as the spouse desires)
- Fail to read their patriarchal blessing regularly and keep it close to them
- Sleep in (meaning sleeping longer than 8 hours)
- Never lie, steal, or pirate material

I DO believe the elect of God:
- Love God
- Love their neighbor
- Desire callings, assignments, and positions of glory
- Aspire to Godhood
- Retire to bed early and arise early to prepare spiritually for the day
- Eat healthily
- Exercise
- LOVE the scriptures and LOVE prayer


I can go on and on but I'll stop there. I think we will all be IMMENSELY happy and satisfied with where were end up. Because where we end up is where we will be the most happy... But where we end up may not be exaltation. And why is that? "Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men" ... and frankly, we don't want it. We all say we do because it is what we are taught... but how many of us, based on how we live our lives, REALLY want to live a perfect exalted life?

(Now there is a whole nother topic about grace and repentance that expands on this... but let's see how this goes first)

Edited by Fether

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Just now, MormonGator said:

They may not be opposed to each other, but I do think some LDS suffer from self worth issues. Tragic. 

Agreed.  Which is we keep seeing talk preaching love even when we are still not yet perfect (striving, but not remotely there yet). 

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1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

The LAST thing they need is to be lectured to about how poorly they are doing. 

This describes my generation, always being judged feeling inadequate to live perfect gospel standards and its back fired in the way of members leaving the church. We can all see these new changes from a mile away its called damage control.

 

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4 minutes ago, Fether said:

I am going to make some potentially harsh statement and accusations that may reveal the kind of saint I am (for better or for worst), Of which I am sure many of us are guilty of (and know I am guilty of a few).

Not sure I can disagree with any of that. But your list condemns me and many of the people I most love. At the bar of judgment, I will be wholly dependent on Christ's grace, or else lost forever.

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2 minutes ago, priesthoodpower said:

This describes my generation, always being judged feeling inadequate to live perfect gospel standards and its back fired in the way of members leaving the church. We can all see these new changes from a mile away its called damage control.

 

 I think one of the problems is that people will only be told they are inadequate for so long. Imagine being in a marriage where you are always being told you are lesser or not as worthy as the other person. I don't really see that coming from the church, for the record. But obviously some do. 

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1 minute ago, priesthoodpower said:

This describes my generation, always being judged feeling inadequate to live perfect gospel standards and its back fired in the way of members leaving the church. We can all see these new changes from a mile away its called damage control.

 

Hmm.  My generation (tail end of Gen X), came of age while Gordon Hinckley was the prophet) got a lot of comeuppance; but anecdotally it seems like it’s the post-Hinckley millennials who’ve been mollycoddled their whole lives who are doing most of the actual, public leaving.

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8 minutes ago, Vort said:

Not sure I can disagree with any of that. But your list condemns me and many of the people I most love. At the bar of judgment, I will be wholly dependent on Christ's grace, or else lost forever.

As I wrote that, there were a few things I didn't want to add, and a couple I didn't add due to the self-condemnation it would have brought. But there is a VERY IMPORTANT discussion to be had about this grace ... however, I am hesitant to say anything because whenever we add "but", "however", or "that's why" to a discussion, it naturally negates all previous conversation... which happens all the time and may be one reason why we as members become soft to commandments.

Edited by Fether

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