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Sunday21

Canadian election

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1 minute ago, Sunday21 said:

@Vort Canadian citizens can think whatever they like but they cannot for prolonged period of time, publicly denounce a particular group.

Then Canadian citizens are not free.

2 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

Now I know why my American students look a little uncomfortable. Actually some of them behave a little strangely too at times. Immediately after this lecture, they sometimes act out by stealing something from another student or being extremely rude to another student. Perhaps they are vexed and are working off their animosity. 

If Americans were a protected class, you would be fined for saying what you said above. But it's okay, because you won't go to jail. (Until your courts decide that you will go to jail, at which time you will go to jail.)

God bless the USA.

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4 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I know. Like I said, our freedoms are very hard to understand for people who don't live in America. All I can say is that I also find hate speech disgusting, but I find the government trying to ban it even more disgusting. 

We are not that hard to understand...  We have the pilgrims who came to America to escape Government persecution.  We have the Revolutionary War which was about escaping Government persecution..  Then if you are an American LDS then you have even more examples of trying to escape Government persecution.

That is our history that informs on our culture...  While others might not have this History... oppressive Governments are not a rare cases.  So to understand this American mindset all one has to do is take whatever they think is dangerous and take that mindset and apply that to government. And bingo you have the American mindset.

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Just now, MormonGator said:
2 minutes ago, Vort said:

Then Canadian citizens are not free.

Europe is much worse. 

Indeed. And I love Europe. But I would never, ever want to raise my family there.

Vort's prediction:

The evils visited upon Europe in the generations preceding ours are but a prelude to the horrors that will come, probably within our lifetimes and maybe within the next two decades. And Europeans themselves will swing the doors wide open for those evils because of the selfish corruption of their governments (and populace) and because of the general European inability to grasp the ideals of liberty, such as we see displayed by many of our Canadian cousins.

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11 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

We will not jail you but you may have to pay a fine.

This is misguided.  Of course you'll eventually end up in jail if you refuse to pay the fine or refuse to do anything else the government dictates you do.

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12 minutes ago, Vort said:

because of the general European inability to grasp the ideals of liberty, such as we see displayed by many of our Canadian cousins.

Agree again my friend. 

See? See? I'm not the far left radical leftist you think I am!

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Okay, back to the OP... there is a reason I don't bother rooting for specific Canadian political campaigns.  Trudeau was a nincompoop but before he was PM, he tried to change the structure of MPs so, at least back in 2015, he held a bit of promise.

Nobody in Canadian elections can solve the Canadian problem.  Canada FIRST has to fix the structure of its government and there is nobody running that will do this because everybody running wants more power instead of wants to divest power.  Therefore, the only thing Canadians can do is to solve very immediate issues.  And today, the biggest looming immediate Canadian issue is their economy especially as worldwide trade is getting shook up by America's shift to stop being everybody else's (including Canada's) piggy bank.

Anyway, for you Americans... this is how messed up Canadian government is which makes Sunday21's way of thinking under this system of government more anti-liberty than if she was an American.

 

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Just now, MormonGator said:

Agree again my friend. 

See? See? I'm not the far left radical leftist you think I am!

On the contrary. The gator is among the closest living example of the dinosaur. I have always assumed this was you giving President Reagan and his fully automatic rifle a ride.

d55rsh7-1e56e750-bfd2-435c-9c62-59c4359e

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1 minute ago, Vort said:

On the contrary. The gator is among the closest living example of the dinosaur. I have always assumed this was you giving President Reagan and his fully automatic rifle a ride.

d55rsh7-1e56e750-bfd2-435c-9c62-59c4359e

He is my favorite president, and one of dogs is named after him actually! 

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5 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Are you really not just pulling my leg? You really feel this way? Seriously. Is this a windup? 

@prisonchaplain All kidding aside. Serious question. Do these people really feel this way? Is this common? 

To grossly over-simplify, Canada has agreed to religious pluralism and that government and society are secular. The Trinity Western University case is a great example. Government determined that law schools will not be credentialed if they require students to sign morality covenants deemed anti-LGBT. In the U.S. we would have had incredible heartburn over that, and probably would continue to fight and struggle, much as we continue to do so with abortion 47 years after Roe v. Wade. TWU told me it had moved on, and basically said they lost one program, but still run 59 others quite well.

So...should government actively try to mold people's thinking to hate racism to the point of criminalizing speech and other communication? Our First Amendment to our Constitution says no. Further, many fear that government (often controlled by one party or the other) might use such powers to steer citizens (including school children) towards a particular ideology.

It is not really that anyone here wants to support or promote racism--just that we do not want to empower government to restrict ideological communications, except that which directly and overtly leads to violence.

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1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

 

 

1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

To grossly over-simplify, Canada has agreed to religious pluralism and that government and society are secular. The Trinity Western University case is a great example. Government determined that law schools will not be credentialed if they require students to sign morality covenants deemed anti-LGBT. In the U.S. we would have had incredible heartburn over that, and probably would continue to fight and struggle, much as we continue to do so with abortion 47 years after Roe v. Wade. TWU told me it had moved on, and basically said they lost one program, but still run 59 others quite well.

So...should government actively try to mold people's thinking to hate racism to the point of criminalizing speech and other communication? Our First Amendment to our Constitution says no. Further, many fear that government (often controlled by one party or the other) might use such powers to steer citizens (including school children) towards a particular ideology.

It is not really that anyone here wants to support or promote racism--just that we do not want to empower government to restrict ideological communications, except that which directly and overtly leads to violence.

Thanks @prisonchaplain Thanks! I am surprised that you think that your government might form a mob against you. I think that this must be an effect of living in a larger vs a smaller country. Anyway thanks everyone. I learned a deeper understanding of our differences. This is very useful to me as I often teach Americans. 

Edited by Sunday21

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On 9/13/2019 at 12:54 PM, Vort said:

Then Canadian citizens are not free.

If Americans were a protected class, you would be fined for saying what you said above. But it's okay, because you won't go to jail. (Until your courts decide that you will go to jail, at which time you will go to jail.)

God bless the USA.

 We were discussing in class in the case of Abercrombie & Finch who formerly had a policy of hiring attractive people to staff their stores. I asked my students if this is legal in Canada. The answer is yes because ‘Ugly’ is not a prohibited ground. If you are of Irish descent, you can be discriminated against on the basis of ‘Irish ness’ because the Irish were not discriminated against in Canada. However, sometimes men have been able to obtain the protection under the law normally reserved for women which in the power of tort law extends protection to men generally. For example a man saw an ad that advertised for a female server. He was able to successfully sue although was not nor had never a server and had no interest in being a server. I understand the judges’s point. If I was forbidden to journey to a particular location in Canada. Why restrict freedom without a good reason? 

Edited by Sunday21

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Actually looking at this list of federal protected classes for  the USA, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_discrimination_law_in_the_United_States

1) This is a very extensive list!

2) This list protects people that we do not protect

eg bankruptcy and bad debts. In my province employers can request a credit report.

- genetic information. Very useful,

3j I wonder if these laws bleed down to the states with a principle of greater benefit? eg you can give more employee rights at a lower level (state) but not less than the federal.

Edited by Sunday21

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5 hours ago, Vort said:

So this is not about your efforts to understand US law and the way Americans think. This is about you wanting your unruly southern neighbors to be less offensive by being more like you

 Well I think we all hope that others will come around to see the world as we see it. We do worry about you guys. 

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Okay here we go! The federal laws work very differently than in Canada. In Canada, the federal laws govern employees and bleed down to the provinces. The provincial laws can give employees more rights but not less 

But in the States...

Employment discrimination or harassment in the private sector is not unconstitutional because Federal and most State Constitutions do not expressly give their respective government the power to enact civil rights laws that apply to the private sector. The Federal government's authority to regulate a private business, including civil rights laws, stems from their power to regulate all commerce between the States. Some State Constitutions do expressly afford some protection from public and private employment discrimination, such as Article I of the California Constitution. However, most State Constitutions only address discriminatory treatment by the government, including a public employer

I am beginning to see why American executives who come up to run their Canadian divisions are so confused. The typical scenario is that the us executive runs around yelling loudly for a couple of months and then flies home. The next highest ranking person left in Canada then walks around apologizing profusely to the Canadian staff while everything gets back to normal.

Anyway, thanks everyone. I learnt a lot.

Edited by Sunday21

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5 hours ago, Vort said:

On the contrary. The gator is among the closest living example of the dinosaur. I have always assumed this was you giving President Reagan and his fully automatic rifle a ride.

d55rsh7-1e56e750-bfd2-435c-9c62-59c4359e

A VERY American photo, but the raptor doesn’t add to the patriotism. Instead it should be an They really did a disservice in having him ride a raptor, they should have put him on an M1-Abram. Or, a giant eagle eating a beaver perhaps.

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51 minutes ago, Sunday21 said:

I am beginning to see why American executives who come up to run their Canadian divisions are so confused. The typical scenario is that the us executive runs around yelling loudly for a couple of months and then flies home. The next highest ranking person left in Canada then walks around apologizing profusely to the Canadian staff while everything gets back to normal.

I'm just happy to see there's no stereotyping going on here. In Canada, that would be illegal. You might get fined.

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2 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

We were discussion in class in the case of Abercrombie & Finch who formerly had a policy of hiring attractive people to staff their stores.

When did that end?

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19 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

 

Thanks @prisonchaplain Thanks! I am surprised that you think that your government might form a mob against you. I think that this must be an effect of living in a larger vs a smaller country. Anyway thanks everyone. I learned a deeper understanding of our differences. This is very useful to me as I often teach Americans. 

Sunday, this video pretty much encapsulates the cultural-political differences of Americans and Canadians and how that came to be:

 

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23 hours ago, estradling75 said:

We have the pilgrims who came to America to escape Government persecution.

This is a myth.   While some did come to America to escape government persecution that is not why the pilgrims came here.    They did leave England for more religious freedom, but they went to Holland, not America.    They left Holland for America because they thought Holland's culture was too permissive (in some ways, there was too much freedom).   There were also economic reasons.

Even Christian websites and sources are saying that the Pilgrims coming here for religious freedom or to escape government persecution is a myth:

https://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/why-the-pilgrims-really-came-to-america-hint-it-wasn-t-religious-freedom.html

 

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18 hours ago, SilentOne said:

When did that end?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2015/04/24/abercrombie-fitch-says-it-will-no-longer-hire-workers-based-on-body-type-or-physical-attractiveness/

2015 they promised to stop. They used to send stalkers to clubs to find attractive people. Also told someone with a disability to hide in the backroom

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