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Impeach Trump

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First I will apologize.  I never intended to imply that any political party - current or past is without flaws.  We all know the evils of Hitler - very few remember why he rose to power and why he had the support he did and how he used and beguiled people.  To quote Shakespeare, "The evil that men do lives after them but the good of often interred with their bones." 

I was raised in a Republican family.  My father (a good and honest man) was deeply involved (though he never held an elective office) in the Republican party.  I was taught by my father to always be a Republican and to vote straight party.  He was convinced that the ONLY way to have representation in government was through a political party.  He is quite right!  And I proved it to be so.  If a citizen were to contact their representative about an issue within the law and if there was a motion before the legislative body - the average everyday citizen will be ignored or worse believed to be a "radical" or nut job coming out of the blue on just about any issue.  They will not have much of an influence.  However, if my father was to call his representative, he would be immediately recognized because of his position within the party.  He would then explain that if some motion was to pass or fail or some wording to persist or be removed they would not have his support in the next election - he would remind them of the money he raised and controlled for them in the last election.  When my father spoke to his representative - they listened - regardless of all else.  Money influences politics.

When I lived in the state of Washington - I got involved in politics but I did not have the financial resources of my father.  I was a volunteer for the PTA - called the PTSA in Washington; to be a lobbyist for the state of Washington PTA.  I also coordinated with our federal lobbyists.  Unlike many other lobbyists the PTA does not have a lot of money to spend but is one of the most powerful lobbyist organizations.  When I contacted a legislator (especially one that was resisting a bill we supported) I would explain (sometimes provide) exactly what we wanted in the bill and that we wanted their support.  If they continued resistance within 30 minutes of their official opposition their office would be flooded with over 20,000 phone calls and that a campaign to contact their entire district would be put into place and they would be noted as against education (which was death to a politician).  I would say this - the year that I was a lobbyists - the first 10 bills to pass in the state of Washington and become laws were the bills put together by the PTSA.  There are influences in politics that are greater than money.

Though I once considered myself a Republican - I will not be associated with that party - nor the Democrats.  I no longer work with or support the PTA lobby (state or national).  This is not because I cannot find common political philosophy - it is because I believe all such organization have been penetrated  by a very evil and collective force.  This force is not about issues - it is not dogmatic.  It is all about power and the few that would have it.  I believe it is the struggle we see in the Book of Mormon between righteous people and their liberties and freedoms and the filthy underbelly in their society that opposes liberties and freedoms.  I have previously posted that the Delano family's wealth (connected to president FDR) came from membership in the world's most powerful drug cartel that was instrumental in bringing down the Qing Dynasty in China which caused the rise of Communist dictatorship in China.  I have no doubt but that drugs (among other factors) influence both parties, but especially the Democratic party; into the issues at our southern border.  I am quite sure that our educational system has also been heavily influenced.  It is not uncommon for college students to demonstrate against "free speech" - usually labeled as hate speech.  But I want the reader to think about the twisted thinking involved with a demonstration against freedom of unpopular speech.

I did support Trump in 2016, especially his platform to drain the swamp.  However, the more I watch the methods of Trump the more he looks like a alpa swamp predator trying to take over and run the swamp.

 

The Traveler

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51 minutes ago, Traveler said:

 

I did support Trump in 2016, especially his platform to drain the swamp.  However, the more I watch the methods of Trump the more he looks like a alpa swamp predator trying to take over and run the swamp.

Another baseless statement.  If this was even remotely true, the IA wouldn't have run Spygate on him and Congressional swamp wouldn't be trying to impeach him, the MSM wouldn't be running anti-Trump rhetoric 24/7 and... he wouldn't be pulling American soldiers out of Syria and he would be declaring war on Turkey in a show of "shock and awe" after threatening the UK of economic whiplash if they Brexit and propping up the UN with US taxpayer money, and that's after he puts Don Jr. on the board of some Ukrainian oil company.  If he's such an alpha swamp predator, he sure failed to even do the basics of swamp dwelling!

 

 

Edited by anatess2

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2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Another baseless statement. 

I find he does that often.  He makes a statement of opinion, but has difficulty verbalizing the basis of said opinion.  Instead he takes us down rabbit hole after rabbit hole.  Eventually we come out on the other side realizing he was never even talking about the subject he first introduced.  It is very difficult to have a conversation with him that amounts to anything.

Edited by Mores

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43 minutes ago, Mores said:

I find he does that often.  He makes a statement of opinion, but has difficulty verbalizing the basis of said opinion.  Instead he takes us down rabbit hole after rabbit hole.  Eventually we come out on the other side realizing he was never even talking about the subject he first introduced.  It is very difficult to have a conversation with him that amounts to anything.

By the way... did I just miss your posts or have you been gone for a while?  I was wondering where you've been....

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Just now, anatess2 said:

By the way... did I just miss your posts or have you been gone for a while?  I was wondering where you've been....

I've been really busy lately.  I'm getting to the point I may have to quit the forums.  But I try to drop in when I can.  If I see something interesting, I'll read it.  If I feel I can add anything, I do.

But pretty soon...

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Just now, Mores said:

I've been really busy lately.  I'm getting to the point I may have to quit the forums.  But I try to drop in when I can.  If I see something interesting, I'll read it.  If I feel I can add anything, I do.

But pretty soon...

Oh no!  You can't go too!  We already miss Carborendum and The Folk Prophet...

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22 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Another baseless statement.  If this was even remotely true, the IA wouldn't have run Spygate on him and Congressional swamp wouldn't be trying to impeach him, the MSM wouldn't be running anti-Trump rhetoric 24/7 and... he wouldn't be pulling American soldiers out of Syria and he would be declaring war on Turkey in a show of "shock and awe" after threatening the UK of economic whiplash if they Brexit and propping up the UN with US taxpayer money, and that's after he puts Don Jr. on the board of some Ukrainian oil company.  If he's such an alpha swamp predator, he sure failed to even do the basics of swamp dwelling!

 

 

And @Mores

I thought I would add a youtube video by a conservative (Ben Shapiro).  Thought this appears to be pointed directly about what he calls collectivism - not just socialism as a problem of government rule.  I agree with his notion that liberty must be used to pursue virtue in order for right to be preserved.  Let me be clear about what is collectivism - it is giving and expecting our rulers government to solve our social problems rather than to be responsible ourselves for our social virtues.   And that we must not only expect our leaders to be virtuous but we must hold them to that account.  I know it is quite long but I hope those you all enjoy it.

 

 

The Traveler

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46 minutes ago, Traveler said:

And @Mores

I thought I would add a youtube video by a conservative (Ben Shapiro).  Thought this appears to be pointed directly about what he calls collectivism - not just socialism as a problem of government rule.  I agree with his notion that liberty must be used to pursue virtue in order for right to be preserved.  Let me be clear about what is collectivism - it is giving and expecting our rulers government to solve our social problems rather than to be responsible ourselves for our social virtues.   And that we must not only expect our leaders to be virtuous but we must hold them to that account.  I know it is quite long but I hope those you all enjoy it.

The Traveler

Now you sound like a Trumper.  One thing Trump is completely against is - expecting our rulers to solve our social problems.

And sure - we must expect our leaders to be virtuous... except nobody is Perfectly Virtuous.  Where you and I differ is - you put certain virtues higher than other virtues... so, if you are an alcoholic, it is okay.  If you cheat on your wife, that's it... no more soup for you.  But, if you cheat on your wife secretly, you're okay.

 

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3 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Now you sound like a Trumper.  One thing Trump is completely against is - expecting our rulers to solve our social problems.

And sure - we must expect our leaders to be virtuous... except nobody is Perfectly Virtuous.  Where you and I differ is - you put certain virtues higher than other virtues... so, if you are an alcoholic, it is okay.  If you cheat on your wife, that's it... no more soup for you.  But, if you cheat on your wife secretly, you're okay.

 

I agree a lot with what Trump says.  Generally my problem with Republicans is that they say good and right things but do bad and wrong things.  In general it appears to me Democrats say bad and wrong things and do bad and wrong things - but at least they are somewhat honest with their intents.  I would say the worse problem in our government is out of control spending.  Spending is still out of control under Trump.  One interesting statement from Ben S in the video was "law without virtue is tyranny".  I do not think Ben intended it so - but that statement applies to Trump as much as many of the Democratic Candidates.  But then the statements pretty much sums up politicians.  I believe the one person of all that is in the political arena that I can say I would support for president is Ben Carson.

 

The Traveler

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On 10/11/2019 at 12:36 PM, anatess2 said:

Now you sound like a Trumper.  One thing Trump is completely against is - expecting our rulers to solve our social problems.

You're still not seeing it?  He always does this.  He does this non-sequitur dance all over the place.  By "non-sequitur" I mean the literary device, not the logical fallacy.  It can't be a logical fallacy when there is no train of thought that connects anything.  He doesn't even attempt to explain it.  He just throws things out there to say a statement and hope we get what it pertains to. 

Nothing he says in one post has anything to do with another post.  At best, they're connected by the most tenuous of threads.  Once you understand that, you begin to understand that you can't really have a meaningful conversation with him about anything in depth.  

Don't get me wrong.  He seems to mean well.  I'm sure he's a nice guy and all.  And he seems to have a lot of data crammed into his head.  But to have a conversation with him is not really something that you can realistically expect.  He simply thinks differently than the direct, linear logical mind can follow.  If he makes a comment that is informative, great.  If he says something off the wall, just smile and nod.  Move on.

Edited by Mores

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On 10/11/2019 at 12:36 PM, anatess2 said:

And sure - we must expect our leaders to be virtuous... except nobody is Perfectly Virtuous.  Where you and I differ is - you put certain virtues higher than other virtues... so, if you are an alcoholic, it is okay.  If you cheat on your wife, that's it... no more soup for you.  But, if you cheat on your wife secretly, you're okay.

For those who have a problem with Trump's personality and character flaws, let me ask you this.

Do you honestly believe that an honest man with perfect manners and is morally upright could really understand all that is happening in the Swamp?  If you don't even understand how it flows, how can you drain that swamp?

Yes, we'd all prefer a man who is as wise as a serpent but harmless as a dove.  So, try to name me someone who fits that bill that would have a chance at winning the Pres. election.

Short of that, we have to ask if we want someone who is "harmless enough" but can be a serpent.  To be sure I'm not being a hypocrite, I'm not saying "harmless to us, but harmful to our political opponents".  I'm saying that a person who wields governmental powers will use those powers to combat government, in favor of "the people" whether they are Democrats or Republicans.  We need someone who is a dove with regards to the rights of the people (as outlined in the Constitution) but is a serpent when it comes to the Deep State.  Trump is actually turning out to be the most Constitutional President in recent history.  Perhaps a couple of generations.

I'd like anyone to show me how Trump doesn't fit that bill.  I'd like anyone to show me another president in recent memory that DOES fit that bill.  Instead, most of them have fought for their side and didn't care about the other side.  Even Reagan was mostly a Republican president.  While I appreciated that, he did some harm while doing it.

Trump really is what he promised to be.  He's doing (or at least pushing really hard) to do what he said he would do.  A man who keeps his campaign promises, and keeps his oath of office, does have the virtue required to be President (in my book).

Edited by Mores

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On 10/12/2019 at 11:03 AM, Traveler said:

I agree a lot with what Trump says.  Generally my problem with Republicans is that they say good and right things but do bad and wrong things.  In general it appears to me Democrats say bad and wrong things and do bad and wrong things - but at least they are somewhat honest with their intents.  I would say the worse problem in our government is out of control spending.  Spending is still out of control under Trump.  One interesting statement from Ben S in the video was "law without virtue is tyranny".  I do not think Ben intended it so - but that statement applies to Trump as much as many of the Democratic Candidates.  But then the statements pretty much sums up politicians.  I believe the one person of all that is in the political arena that I can say I would support for president is Ben Carson.

 

The Traveler

And you don't think it applies to many of the Republican Candidates including Mitt Romney?

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