NeuroTypical

Clarified temple recommend questions

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1. Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?
1. Do you have faith in and a testimony of God, the Eternal Father; His Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost?

 

2. Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?
2. Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and of His role as your Savior and Redeemer?

 

3. Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?
3. Do you have a testimony of the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

 

4. Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?
4. Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain the members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local leaders of the Church?

 

5. Do you live the law of chastity?
5. The Lord has said that all things are to be “done in cleanliness” before Him (Doctrine and Covenants 42:41). Do you strive for moral cleanliness in your thoughts and behavior? Do you obey God’s law of chastity?

 

6. Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?
6. Do you follow the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ in your private and public behavior with members of your family and others?

 

7. Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?
7. Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

 

8. Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?
8. Do you strive to keep the Sabbath day holy, both at home and at church; attend your meetings; prepare for and worthily partake of the sacrament; and live your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

 

9. Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?
9. Do you strive to be honest in all that you do?

 

10. Are you a full-tithe payer?
10. Are you a full-tithe payer?

 

11. Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?
11. Do you understand and obey the Word of Wisdom?

 

12. Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?
12. Do you have any financial or other obligations to a former spouse or to children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

 

13. Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple? Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?
13. Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple, including wearing the temple garment as instructed in the endowment?

 

14. Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?
14. Are there serious sins in your life that need to be resolved with priesthood authorities as part of your repentance?

 

15. Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?
15. Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord’s house and participate in temple ordinances?

Old first, new second.  My goodness!

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This is actually a big help for my parents (who have a gay son and trans daughter) who support and affiliate in LGBTQ youth organizations but do not support or promote the actual beliefs. “Support” has always been a vague word when used between an LGBTQ individual and a Christian. Very happy to see this clarification 

Edited by Fether

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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Old first, new second.  My goodness!

When the new questions were being read - I was not aware of a difference.  Hopefully those that are not quite honest with themselves will find the questions a little more difficult.

 

The Traveler

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10 hours ago, Fether said:

This is actually a big help for my parents (who have a gay son and trans daughter) who support and affiliate in LGBTQ youth organizations but do not support or promote the actual beliefs. “Support” has always been a vague word when used between an LGBTQ individual and a Christian. Very happy to see this clarification 

Yep - my last couple of interviews, I'd always start answering by asking my priesthood leader to define "affiliate with". :)     Their definition was pretty much in alignment with the new re-wording.   So I get to continue to hang out online with my apostate critic buddy in a transgender marriage.  Yay!

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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Yep - my last couple of interviews, I'd always start answering by asking my priesthood leader to define "affiliate with". :)     Their definition was pretty much in alignment with the new re-wording.   So I get to continue to hang out online with my apostate critic buddy in a transgender marriage.  Yay!

I didn't even think there was another way to understand that question.  My family is Catholic and hold Catholic traditions and I have no intention of cutting myself off from them.

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There were always big questions around "should/can I go to my gay daughter's wedding" and "to what extent can/should I participate" and whatnot.

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Just now, NeuroTypical said:

There were always big questions around "should/can I go to my gay daughter's wedding" and "to what extent can/should I participate" and whatnot.

Why is this any bigger than enrolling in a Baptist/Methodist/Christ Church/Catholic/etc. private school where they teach the kids LDS is a cult?

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26 minutes ago, anatess2 said:
30 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

There were always big questions around "should/can I go to my gay daughter's wedding" and "to what extent can/should I participate" and whatnot.

Why is this any bigger than enrolling in a Baptist/Methodist/Christ Church/Catholic/etc. private school where they teach the kids LDS is a cult?

Why would a question like this be bigger?  My guess would be the difference was in all the LDS people yelling about how you couldn't keep your temple recommend if you attended your gay daughter's wedding.  It used to be a hotly contested and debated issue, starting in the mid-90's.  It's tapered off in the last 5 years or so.

As for enrolling in a religious based private school, one might wonder why you'd willingly select one where they'd specifically teach your kid our church is a cult, vs. all the other religious based private schools where they wouldn't.

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41 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Why would a question like this be bigger?  My guess would be the difference was in all the LDS people yelling about how you couldn't keep your temple recommend if you attended your gay daughter's wedding.  It used to be a hotly contested and debated issue, starting in the mid-90's.  It's tapered off in the last 5 years or so.

I don’t know that the new wording clears up this individual, since attending a gay wedding could still be interpreted as an expression of support for gay marriage generally.

It does, however, combat the perception that we have to shun people (e.g., gays) just because they are teaching/following ideas of which the Church disapproves.

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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Why would a question like this be bigger?  My guess would be the difference was in all the LDS people yelling about how you couldn't keep your temple recommend if you attended your gay daughter's wedding.  It used to be a hotly contested and debated issue, starting in the mid-90's.  It's tapered off in the last 5 years or so.

As for enrolling in a religious based private school, one might wonder why you'd willingly select one where they'd specifically teach your kid our church is a cult, vs. all the other religious based private schools where they wouldn't.

My sister's bishop was very upset when she and her husband went to my brother's wedding to another man.  The bishop tried to take their recommends away and even suggested that they not wear the garments for a period of time.  It took a lot of time and meetings with the bishop and stake pres. for them to keep the recommends.  He saw it as supporting/affiliating with individuals whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Edited by dprh

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45 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Why would a question like this be bigger?  My guess would be the difference was in all the LDS people yelling about how you couldn't keep your temple recommend if you attended your gay daughter's wedding.  It used to be a hotly contested and debated issue, starting in the mid-90's.  It's tapered off in the last 5 years or so.

As for enrolling in a religious based private school, one might wonder why you'd willingly select one where they'd specifically teach your kid our church is a cult, vs. all the other religious based private schools where they wouldn't.

Uhm... they all do.  Even the Catholic one.  It's the same as a Catholic going to Testimony Meeting and hearing the testimonies about how the LDS Church is the one true church... it is the same as claiming that the Catholic Church is not the true Church.

So why enroll your kid in a religious based private schools?  Because they are very good at teaching reading/writing/arithmetic.

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13 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

7. Do you support or promote any teachings, practices, or doctrine contrary to those of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Someone in my Ward posted about how they despise Elder Oaks based on his talk during the Women's Session.  I am constantly amazed and baffled by how many members of the Church are unable to comprehend the idea that to love and care for someone does not mean to approve of their choices and actions.  I think that based on this new wording, there are many who will be unable to renew their temple recommends (assuming they are honest); I assume many will use that as fuel to their fire of indignation.

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13 minutes ago, person0 said:

Someone in my Ward posted about how they despise Elder Oaks based on his talk during the Women's Session.  I am constantly amazed and baffled by how many members of the Church are unable to comprehend the idea that to love and care for someone does not mean to approve of their choices and actions.  I think that based on this new wording, there are many who will be unable to renew their temple recommends (assuming they are honest); I assume many will use that as fuel to their fire of indignation.

Wait... I thought that was a good talk.  What about the talk did they get indignant about?

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23 minutes ago, person0 said:

Someone in my Ward posted about how they despise Elder Oaks based on his talk during the Women's Session. 

Are these people active? Just curious. 

 

24 minutes ago, person0 said:

  I am constantly amazed and baffled by how many members of the Church are unable to comprehend the idea that to love and care for someone does not mean to approve of their choices and actions. 

Couldn't agree more, though I think that's an age thing. The younger generations are more likely to be able to grasp this. 

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15 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Wait... I thought that was a good talk.  What about the talk did they get indignant about?

He didn’t say “God affirms homosexual lifestyles and encourages everyone who is gay should do gay things”

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:
1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

As for enrolling in a religious based private school, one might wonder why you'd willingly select one where they'd specifically teach your kid our church is a cult, vs. all the other religious based private schools where they wouldn't.

Uhm... they all do.  Even the Catholic one.  It's the same as a Catholic going to Testimony Meeting and hearing the testimonies about how the LDS Church is the one true church... it is the same as claiming that the Catholic Church is not the true Church.

*shrug* When we stuck our kids in one run by the Nazarenes, they were the nicest people on the planet and bent over backwards to accept us and our weird LDS ways.  Years later, when we stuck our kids in one run by our local mega church, they largely did the same.  My wife ran into one random person in like 5 years that had a problem with Joseph Smith.  That person was quickly ushered aside and we got love bombed within an inch of our lives. 

Maybe that's just Colorado though.  Or maybe it's just Catholicism, because we both claim authority, while protestantism is all about "when you have two or three gathering in my name, that's church".

Edited by NeuroTypical

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The folks mad at Elder Oaks, assumed he was mocking the "second wife" who was concerned about mansions and living with wife #1.   

I didn't see the slightest hint of mocking.  Perhaps a bit of dry wit.  The audience certainly laughed.  

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9 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Maybe that's just Colorado though.

We've visited churches with our friends and neighbors. Most people knew we are LDS and no one cared. No snide jokes, no problems with Joesph Smith Jr...everyone is really polite and nice. Like all other churches they are just happy to see you. 

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49 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Wait... I thought that was a good talk.  What about the talk did they get indignant about?

4 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

The folks mad at Elder Oaks, assumed he was mocking the "second wife" who was concerned about mansions and living with wife #1.   

I didn't see the slightest hint of mocking.  Perhaps a bit of dry wit.  The audience certainly laughed.  

I think that was part of what she said.  She also was ranting about him spreading hate, and sustaining hate for LGBTQ.  Basically, she was spewing a bunch of inaccurate crap based on her perceptions of what she would have preferred to hear.

35 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Are these people active? Just curious. 

The family was, until about a couple of month's ago.  I'm not sure what happened to lead them down this path.  Sadly, there are multiple families and individuals in our Ward and area who appear to be tossed about because they can't understand the difference between love and approval.  Makes me wonder if they've ever actually read the scriptures (any of them).

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I've noticed in my own life that it's mostly leftists who can't grasp the "I don't agree with you but like you anyway" attitude. Most religious people of all stripes (sure, there are exceptions) seem to understand it.

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Just now, MormonGator said:

I've noticed in my own life that it's mostly leftists who can't grasp the "I don't agree with you but like you anyway" attitude. Most religious people of all stripes (sure, there are exceptions) seem to understand it.

I once was told that my church is hateful and is clearly a big con. An hour later we were laughing together and playing video games. This friend also cried the day I went on my mission cause he was going to miss me so much.

We can all learn from him.

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Just now, Fether said:

We can all learn from him.

Oh no doubt. 

I think every religion has it's people that just can't separate the two (disagreement and friendship)  but that's more a human problem than a religion problem. 

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20 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I've noticed in my own life that it's mostly leftists who can't grasp the "I don't agree with you but like you anyway" attitude. Most religious people of all stripes (sure, there are exceptions) seem to understand it.

Amen.  BTW, here are some of the exact words from one of the people I mentioned previously:

Quote

EDIT:  Removed to ensure individual cannot be identified on social media.

Reads to me like she is the one with hatred in her heart in the literal sense.  She, and others like her seriously have issues. I am not sure how someone could even begin to help people like this overcome them? I mean, the only way to change is to actually come to a knowledge and understanding of the truth, and I can't imagine someone like that being willing to have enough of a conversation to connect the dots to even begin to come close!

UPDATE:  Looks like she has officially decided she no longer believes in the restored gospel, according to a recent post.  Makes sense that she would go that way, but deeply saddens me nonetheless.

Edited by person0

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1 hour ago, Fether said:

He didn’t say “God affirms homosexual lifestyles and encourages everyone who is gay should do gay things”

Ahh.  They still can't believe the prophet didn't get the revelation they got or something like that.  

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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

*shrug* When we stuck our kids in one run by the Nazarenes, they were the nicest people on the planet and bent over backwards to accept us and our weird LDS ways.  Years later, when we stuck our kids in one run by our local mega church, they largely did the same.  My wife ran into one random person in like 5 years that had a problem with Joseph Smith.  That person was quickly ushered aside and we got love bombed within an inch of our lives. 

Maybe that's just Colorado though.  Or maybe it's just Catholicism, because we both claim authority, while protestantism is all about "when you have two or three gathering in my name, that's church".

Dunno if it's different in Colorado but down here in Florida (which is not quite part of Bible Belt Florida) protestants don't like the Catholic nor LDS claim to "one true Church" and have no problem expressing such dislike in their schools.  So, this is my experience... I was looking for private schools for my kid and the application form says Religious Background on it and all the schools I investigated asked me if I will have a problem with my child being taught that the LDS Church is not a true church (or something to that effect) and that my child will not be allowed to proselyte at their school.  Now, my experience with the Catholic Forum is... they banned me from the site for proselyting when I defended the church from forum members attacking us for such-and-such beliefs that they mischaracterized.  So... the school admins' conversation pretty much translated to me as - we can talk bad things about your church and you are not allowed to defend it because that would be proselyting.

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